User talk:Keresaspa/Archive 10

Hester Dunn

What do you know about this lady? According to Ian S. Wood, she headed the UDA Women's Department. BTW, I love your photo of that old blue house on Kent Street. Reminds me of a haunted house taken over by hippies in the 1960s and 1970s. Fabulous. Another favourite is the row of old houses on Caledon Street with the clump of flowers in the foreground.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 13:07, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

McDonald and Cusack mention her as running the PR and admin section (!) at the UDA's Gawn Street headquarters in the mid 1970s with Sammy Duddy. They giver her name as Esther Dunne though. Other than that I don't think I've seen her name crop up anywhere else. Glad you liked me stuff :) That building on Kent Street has been lying empty for as long as I can remember and to be honest I'm amazed the council didn't tear it down years ago. I'm glad they haven't, it has a real haunted house vibe. I was quite pleased with the Caledon Street one myself. I took it from a piece of waste ground just beside Lanark Way. Odd to think that the whole of the Shankill, and indeed, working class Belfast, looked pretty much like that once. Keresaspa (talk) 00:22, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes I can recall seeing entire streets like Caledon St. back in the 1980s. That blue house in Kent Street is a jewel. Is Kent St. near the city centre? I recall reading about Dunn/Dunne in some book, but cannot recall which one.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:00, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

I have vague memories of my granny's house in Bond Street being part of a row like that. They were demolished when I was very young though and rebuilt in that ugly 80s style like the Island Street pictures I showed you a few months ago. In actual fact Bond Street was not resurrected as there is no street in Belfast with that name nay more. Kent Street is just off Upper Royal Avenue. I can't remember if you know that area or not but if you did it is the street/alleyway at the side of the Central Library. Library Street is on the side heading towards York Street or Shore Road whilst Kent Street is heading towards the City Hall. It links Royal Avenue to the Carrick Hill/Unity Walk area near the bottom of the Shankill. Dunn isn't ringing too many bells with me to be honest as I hadn't even noticed her mention in McDonald and Cusack until you mentioned her. Keresaspa (talk) 19:04, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

No, I've never been to that area where Kent Street is located. That house is amazing. Dunn was mentioned in some book (of which the title escapes me) and described as having cut an incongruous figure at Gawn Street UDA HQ in her stylish black leather trousers.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:12, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

There's a slightly seedy youth hostel on the corner of Kent Street but otherwise nothing of note there so I didn't suppose you would have visited that part of town. It is beside the gay district these days. I haven't read that about Dunn so I don't know which book that is. Put like that she sounds like a bit of a hottie! Keresaspa (talk) 14:09, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes, she sounds like she might have been a loyalist Rosena Brown. What is it about black leather trousers? I used to own a black leather skirt and I still own a black leather jacket, but no trousers (Must buy a pair LOL) If she handled PR, I'm sure she wasn't a Lily Douglas, Henrietta Piper Cowan or Gina Adair!!! She wrote something protesting strip searches of female prisoners and according to Wood, she worked closely with Andy Tyrie.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:31, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Is it my bad mind or does the phrase "worked closely with Andy Tyrie" sound like a bit of a euphemism? Keresaspa (talk) 15:37, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

No, those were my words. The book doesn't imply anything went on between them. I wonder how she handled Craig? If he went after Sally Burbage at an Eleventh party, the sight of Dunn running around HQ in tight black leather trousers must've drove him berserk!!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:45, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Might have been doing a line with somebody though - McDonald and Cusack hint very vaguely at Sammy Duddy. And I'm sure Craig would have made himself a right nuisance round her! Keresaspa (talk) 15:52, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, I wonder if she read Duddy's quaint little poem? I put it on his article.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:56, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

I have to say that when I read that my first thought was that he could have been a bit more boastful really, couldn't he? Mind you, those frocks he wore left nothing to the imagination :D Keresaspa (talk) 23:11, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Women are actually put off by boastful men. I am anyway. Another thing I hate is a guy who constantly talks about his past sexual experiences: claiming he did wild threesomes with stunning Playboy model-types, etc. This is done to make the person whose currently sharing his glorious stage of a bed to feel she had better put on just as good of a performance. I know a guy who claimed he had a menage-et-trois with a mother and daughter adding that the 50-plus mother was by far the better performer. As to Duddy's frocks, I cannot picture him amongst hard men like Payne, Fogel and Harding Smith.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:31, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

I know a guy who is like that, always boasting and crowing about all these women he has supposedly had. In all the time I've known him I've seen him with a woman once. Surprise surprise, he's short! As for Duddy he's a strange character and no mistake and when I first heard about him several years ago I thought he was a wind-up. Certainly I can think of nobody else who has ever had to grow a moustache to order! Keresaspa (talk) 16:22, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Surprise! Hester Dunn (loyalist). What do you think? You were right, she was a hottie after all!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:12, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

I knew that was coming. Good stuff. Nothing to add unfortunately as McDonald and Cusack have nothing that you haven't added but good work nonetheless. Keresaspa (talk) 18:19, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Actually now that I think about do we need the disambiguation at the end of the article title? I can't see anybody else with the same name being notable enough for an article so would it not be better just to have the articles as Hester Dunn? I didn't want to move without consulting you though. Keresaspa (talk) 18:30, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Good idea! I just added the dab out of habit! Thanks for adding the bit about Duddy. What a pair thy must've made: a go-go dancer and fmale impersonator!! The bit about Dunn in the trousers is in the Wood book, but Google Books won't let me see the page at the moment.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:43, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

I have a copy of Wood to hand it is on page 15. Keresaspa (talk) 18:54, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Your additions are a decided improvement to the article. Thanks a million. Wow! Go-go dancer, leather trousers, heavy smoker!! She must've created quite a stir at HQ. Oh, I saw an article in a newspaper about a pensioner in east Belfast named Hester Dunn who complained about a savage dog on the loose in her area. I wonder if it's the same Hester?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:10, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

When I said I had nothing to add I didn't realise Google Books was playing silly beggars and not letting you see page 15 of Wood. Luckily I got a copy of his book recently so I could add the bit about her fegs! McDonald and Cusack reckon that her, Duddy and Tyrie were always bantering each other and messing about but that McMichael was more seriously disposed and didn't get involved. The dog woman probably is her - you have her as originating in east Belfast and much of the Suffolk area has subsequently become Catholic so she might well have moved back east plus if she was born in 1944 she would have got her pension in 2004. That and the fact that it's a really unusual name as I for one have never met a Hester in my life. The closest I've come was my grandmother who was Esther but I never met her either as she died 20 years before I was born. Keresaspa (talk) 17:47, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Hester sounds like a Puritan name; perhaps her mother named her after the heroine in The Scarlet Letter. The article says this Hester Dunn had been living in East Belfast for 30 years. That makes sense as she would have likely moved back there seeing as the Suffolk estate would have been increasingly dangerous for her given her role within the UDA. I like your rewording of the opening sentence. My version was misleading. I also have an ancestress named Esther. Biblical names were quite popular in the 19th century: Samuel, Sarah, Abraham, Esther, Zachariah, Isaac, Hannah, etc.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:13, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Where Suffolk referred to in the 70s and what it means now is pretty different. Suffolk now, in the sense of the loyalist part of the area beyond Andytown but before Poleglass, is basically Blacks Road and nothing else. It used to include nearly everything on the opposite side of the Stewartstown Road to the west of Lenadoon Avenue but that's definitely not the case now. I took this on Suffolk Road recently for example and from time to time I go to watch Donegal Celtic F.C. round there, a club where loyalism is definitely not on the agenda, so unless she is holding on in Blacks Road its pretty likely she has left. The rewording at the start is just a quirk of mine. I've edited a lot of football articles on here and I saw too many articles beginning with "Jimmy Kickaballs is a former English footballer" when they meant "Jimmy Kickaballs is an English former footballer" as he has stopped playing football but not being English. For better or worse it has made me a little anal when it comes to opening sentences. Glad you didn't mind as some editors get a little annoyed by it! My dad's grandfather was a Samuel and there was an Isaac on my mother's die. Keresaspa (talk) 17:45, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

The newspaper article says she had ben living in east Belfast for 30 years so it makes sense. Moved back from Suffolk estate sometime in the 80s. The Wood book describes her as a wisecracker but Google wouldn't let me read the entire sentence. Apparntly she kept the guys in line at the Gawn St HQ.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:18, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

I separated the wisecracking bit off and added a bit from McDonald and Cusack to give a bit of an idea of her personality. She sounds like a right laugh. Keresaspa (talk) 18:51, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Looks great! Thanks. And thank you as well for the image of the Trevor King mural.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:35, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

No problemo. Keresaspa (talk) 19:11, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Tavern Bar and Trevor King

Out of curiousity is that dodgy Tavern Bar still on the corner of Kent Street and Union Street?God walking past that place gave me the creeps.Also a big well done for the Trevor King mural picture.Here's hoping it stays.Bizarrely he looks like a young version of the Bank of England governor Mervyn King! DColt (talk) 18:15, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

The last time we all discussed this Warofdreams posted a link from Wikimedia Commons which stated that it was OK to post images of illegal graffiti including murals. Now, the UVF is an illegal organisation and the Trevor King mural shows their badge, their flag, the flag of their youth movement and a member in combat gear with a gun so if all of that doesn't constitute illegal graffiti then I don't know what does. The same goes for UDA, IRA, INLA or any other paramilitary murals I or anybody else has uploaded - as far as I'm concerned if it has the name of a banned movement painted on it then it is illegal graffiti and I will argue that that case if anybody suggests deletion. And I see what you mean about Mervyn King - strange coincidence or what. The Tavern is still standing by the way. It has been for sale for about three years but no takers so far and as a result it is soldiering on, still with the big metal grilling at the entrance. I've never set foot in it myself and I know nobody else who has either and yet it somehow manages to stay open. And I have to say I get a slight shudder passing it myself as it is just such a Troubles throwback. Keresaspa (talk) 18:43, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

It's the type of bar the smoking ban inspector wouldn't dare go in.Granted I've seen guys outside it smoking although they still remain within the steel grilling.A tourist friendly bar it most certainly is not.Up there with The Hideout on Donegall Pass as the most intimidating bar in Belfast.19:00, 2 May 2012 (UTC)DColt (talk)

I think if a tourist tried to get in there they would probably wake up on Cavehill five hours later wondering how they got there. It might well be the friendliest place in town (I doubt it, mind) but it just gives off a chamber of horrors vibe! Keresaspa (talk) 19:08, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

The Tavern in all it's eerie glory!DColt (talk) 19:13, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

That's the boy. I see that was taken in January 2011 and it's still for sale and yet somehow still open as well. Weird place! Keresaspa (talk) 19:17, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

And it's equally scary counterpart The Hideout.DColt (talk) 19:19, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

That mural has gone now. Like a lot of UVF ones it has been replaced with one referencing the 36th (Ulster) Division rather than the 1966 UVF. The Ivy Bar just down the block from the Hideout has closed and I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't far behind as those sort of local bars have struggled since the smoking ban. Keresaspa (talk) 19:38, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

I think that Ivy bar has been closed for a good while now.I recall when in Frames and The Front Page one day making a few subtle enquiries about the bar around the corner(The Tavern).Most people visibly seemed uncomfortable talking about it,others tried to deny its existance.One person though disclosed that during the Troubles anyone accused of being a tout ended up in the upstairs rooms.The poor souls were apparently tortured,maybe even a few killed.I'm presuming because of its vicinity to Carrick Hill it would have been a drinking place for republicans.I also heard it was also dangerous due to the fact it was up a quiet side street and The Shankill Butchers had been known to cruise the area looking for victims because it was within short distance to the Shankill.Interestingly if you recall the documentary Stephen Nolan done on the Shankill Butchers last year on the BBC.A club owner on nearby Stephen Street was interviewed.He was recalling how tense the area was at that time when the Shankill Butchers operated.I'm guessing he was possibly referring to The Tavern.DColt (talk) 19:56, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

One of the Shankill Butchers victims was definitely picked up on Library Street, walking home from the Crumlin Start club in Ardoyne to his his house on the Stewartstown Road (no mean feat in itself). As such there would definitely have been tension round that area. To the best of my knowledge the Tavern is a republican-aligned bar and I suppose its proximity to the Shankill encouraged it to become so heavily fortified and suspicious in the first place. Incidentally Frames has followed several other places and things in Belfast and changed its name to something Titanic related now. Keresaspa (talk) 20:01, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

That poor guy would of had a good 4-5 mile walk.Thats right Frames is now Titanic Bar.Is that an apartment block on Union Street beside The Tavern?DColt (talk) 20:09, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

As far as I can remember that's a lock-up garages beside the Tavern. I remember the empty lot on the other side used to be a bookshop years ago but then it got demolished and they built nothing in its place. So are you from Belfast then as you seem to know the old place well? Keresaspa (talk) 00:17, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

I wonder if these joints imposed a dress code to enter? I'm sure blue boiler suits and tracksuits would have been de rigour! The photos really do capture the atmosphere of menace emanating from the pubs.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 11:51, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Baseball cap and earring mandatory I suspect. Keresaspa (talk) 19:11, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't but I have worked up here for 8 years.I have worked in Corporation Street,York Street and Upper Queen Street amongst others so know the place pretty well.Also a drive up random streets and roads is a good way to explore and discover though it's wise to be careful at night in some areas!DColt (talk) 12:00, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

I love wandering round this dump. I started it to get some exercise about a year and a half ago and now I can't enough of it! Keresaspa (talk) 19:11, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Did you freely walk about Disraeli Street to get the picture of the Trevor King mural?I imagine due to being in Woodvale,it's not exactly on the tourist trail like the main Shankill Road.DColt (talk) 20:02, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Yeah with no problem. Woodvale doesn't see many visitors admittedly but any time I've been on Disraeli Street people actually stop to let you take the pictures if they're walking past so they must get some visitors turning up to see them. The tour buses obviously don't go on there as it is very narrow but possibly the taxi tours might go up there from time to time. I would be surprised if they didn't as, from a purely aesthetic point of view, I think the Woodvale murals are better quality than their lower Shankill counterparts. That Stephen McKeag one with the sun-bleached photograph for instance is pretty poor quality compared to the King and Robinson ones. As I say I've never had any real issues with taking pictures of murals. You get some funny looks on the estates in Newtownabbey as nobody goes to places like Ballyduff and Monkstown unless they live there but that's as far as it goes really. Keresaspa (talk) 22:53, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

This guy

Have you ever heard of this guy Lindsay Robb? He was a former UVF gun-runner stabbed to death in 2006 whilst living in Scotland.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:50, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Oh and Robb leads to this article: Colin Duffy. Is it me or does this article look a wee bit lopsided to you as well? One teeny-weeny paragraph and a HUGE references section!!!!! One statement has a total of 13 citations! You should have seen the article before I expanded it somewhat.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 13:57, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Like Kenny McClinton before him I've lost track of the number of times I've nearly started an article on Lindsay Robb but a lack of sources beat me every time. It's odd because he was a high profile figure who was prominent in the PUP around the time of the CLMC ceasefire, was arrested in Scotland, denied involvement before yelling "up the Uve" to the assembled crowd as he was brought out of the court after sentencing before dying at a young age in dodgy circumstances. As a matter of fact there were even a clutch of Lindsay Robb jokes that did the rounds in my school at the time and "up the Uve" even became something of a lunchtime slogan that lads, including myself now and then, would randomly yell at each other, especially after scoring a goal in a lunchtime kickabout (which was a weird thing to catch on in a Catholic school, but there you have it). Despite all that I've struggled to find more than a passing mention of him. It's almost as if he's been written out of history but some secret Stalinist plot we don't know about! And agreed the Duffy article looks a bit off. I suppose seeing as all the sources are online ones the basis of a good expansion job is already there but you know how loathe I am to tread into the republican articles minefield. I may do so later though. Keresaspa (talk) 17:45, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Actually I found a few sources on Robb today. If you Google lindsay Robb UVF a good article from the FreeLibrary will eventually come up. I have my free subscription to HighBeam and I found a long article on him there as well. I think between us we could get a decent article up. I spent a lovely morning at the beach. The sun was really hot but when I took a swim discovered that the water was freezing. And didn't get much warmer the second time I ventured in. LOL. Robb was stabbed to death in Glasgow by a former soldier after a fight. Collusion tales also surround Lindsay. He claimed he was put up to testify against Duffy. Oh have you noticed Duffy bears a strong resemblance to Ken Gibson (loyalist)!!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:56, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

I was at the seaside myself today, taking in the sights round Bangor. Every bit as pretty as Belfast as you can see! The weather wasn't bad here actually. If you want to create Robb go ahead and I'll see what I can add but if always had a lot of trouble finding sources for him. I only know Duffy with that giant beard and long grey hair that he sports these days so I'm having trouble remembering his features behind all that mess. Keresaspa (talk) 19:02, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Lindsay Robb upon moving to Scotland was documented in his links to the drug trade in his Glasgow which resulted in his stabbing death.All stories about him tended to be in the infamous Sunday World so a huge pinch of salt was needed of course.DColt (talk) 18:12, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

That was the paper Robin Jackson and Billy Wright both took exception to.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:19, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

it was the Sunday World I read a lot about him in too. It covered Jim Gray in good detail too back in the day but unfortunately its tendency to make things up all the time would preculde it from being a reliable source. Keresaspa (talk) 19:02, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

If I recall correctly in about 2003 or 2004 the UDA in North Belfast and South East Antrim tried to impose a total blanket ban on the Sunday World.Any newsagent which stocked it was warned with violence or had a petrol bomb decorating their premises.The campaign fizzled out and it remains on sale everywhere,though as the old saying goes in Northern Ireland "Ye couldn't heed a word they say"or in their case a word they print.DColt (talk) 19:39, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Recently on the Shankill there was a graffiti campaign along the road naming somebody as a "Sunday World Tout". I can't remember who the name was as either he or his mates went up and down the road painting his name out but I recall something similar in east Belfast about a year back so the bad blood is still. That and the fact that Jim McDowell seems to be attacked in the twon every lot of months by loyalists. Keresaspa (talk) 19:45, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Here's a link that might assist your Lindsay Robb page.Some stuff about his involvement in collusion and a tit bit about being a Nazi sympathiser.http://www.heraldscotland.com/terrorist-claims-ignite-probe-into-paramilitary-collusion-1.827108 DColt (talk) 19:47, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Woah that is a good link - pretty explosive stuff. Definitely be very useful, thanks. Keresaspa (talk) 20:03, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations Keresaspa on a very well-written, informative article! And you even found a picture of Robb as well. I couldn't locate one. Nice job.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:04, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Cheers mate. It occurred to me that you had done the last few so I went ahead and did it as I didn't want to seem like I was leaving all the hard work to you. Good edits too. Keresaspa (talk) 18:45, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

I'll see if I can discover more info. I wonder how close he was to Jacko? His photo reminds me of someone in County Armagh, but seeing as that person is alive...well, you know BLP and all that!!!!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:59, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm sure they must have known each other, although I don't get the impression that Robb was anybody important when Jackson was calling the shots which makes me doubt they were particularly close. By the descriptions Robb seemed to have been closer to Billy Wright. Keresaspa (talk) 17:06, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

I've been adding a few things which I got courtesy of HighBeam (My God, is that place a gold mine of info!!!). What a tangled web of intrigue. What do you make of his transformation from respectable Sunday School teacher-type into a tattooed Adair-Gregg clone?! Have you figured out who he looks like? Well, let me give you a few wee clues: He's from County Armagh, wears glasses, his first name is born by a hero of the Boyne riding a white horse and his surname is also a junction with Ballymacarrett Road.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:42, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

I reckon his appearance change was probably an LVF thing as he wanted to look more like Wright. That and sod all else to do in jail except hit the weights. As to the lookalike, I can't really see it myself. I think the man you are referring to looks more like George Seawright. Indeed you might even say he looks a FAIR bit like him. Keresaspa (talk) 17:52, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

In the photo on his article, George Seawright looks a FAIR bit like Andy Tyrie! Even with shaven-head and tattoos, Robb couldn't never look like Wright. Lacked the intensity of expression and charisma. I would say Billy Wright was one of those larger than life people. Suzanne Breen regretted never having interviewed him.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:01, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Tyrie was a lot darker than Seawright though. Apart from the moustache Tyrie is the model of a guy who used to be a doorman in a metal club I frequented back in the day. He was a Shankill Roader too so there might have been a connection. By the way, I don't think BLP applies to fair comment and suggesting two people look alike is hardly likely to cause either of them any trouble so we can say Willie Frazer without worrying. Keresaspa (talk) 18:05, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

I prefer Jackie to Andy LOL. Oh and I notice Willie Frazer even has his own article!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:08, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

I know he does - I've edited bits of it in the past about his Ulster nationalist dalliance. I've heard a rumour that he has edited the article himself on occasion, but I don't know if it's true. Keresaspa (talk) 18:29, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Really? I never heard that rumour.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:33, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't vouch for how true it is but I've heard it suggested. His old mate Hugh Ross (politician) supposedly does too and I even had to tell him to stop once, although I suspect that may have been a case of mistaken identity. Keresaspa (talk) 18:56, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Page number needed

In the Ian S. Wood book, on which page does it say that John McMichael came from a working-class background? Thanks a million.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:32, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

I can't find anywhere that it does. The closest I can get is page 92 where Seamus Lynch describes him as a "youngish working-class fellow". I'll look again later i as the FA Cup final coverage is still on but after a quick scan that was the best I could find. Keresaspa (talk) 18:59, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Page 134 describes him as living on "the solidly Loyalist Hilden estate in Lisburn" which again implies working class but I can find nothing in Wood that explicitly says his background is working class. Are you sure it was Wood you read it in? Keresaspa (talk) 01:36, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

"Youngish working-class fellow" is good enough. In fact, that's what I had read a while back but forgot to note the page number. Thanks Keresaspa.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:55, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

You got it. Keresaspa (talk) 17:07, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Andrew Robb

In one of the HighBeam articles, I read that Andrew Robb's mother attended Mark "Swinger" Fulton's funeral.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:06, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

I briefly contemplated a familial relationship between Andrew and Lindsay Robb but I could find nothing to suggest any connection. Probably just a coincidence, although it's not that common a surname. Keresaspa (talk) 18:30, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Hmm..Lurgan and Portadown very close to one another.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:34, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Pretty much the same place really, along with Craigavon. But it may just be coincidence of course, and there is no word anywhere either way. Keresaspa (talk) 18:57, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Sammy Duddy

Isn't there something rather pathetic about Sammy Duddy? Perhaps it was the shooting of his dog, Bambi. Somehow I cannot picture him as a paramilitary. Oh fave you ever had a look at the collection of Victor Patterson "Troubles" photos? It's an amazing collection and I even found one of Jim Anderson (loyalist)!!!! I believe it was he who is featured in all those old UDA clips and pics giving instructions, overseeing the marches, etc. Looked like a combination of teddy boy/London gangster like so many of the other pre-Tyrie/McMichael UDA leaders such as Fogel, Herron, etc..--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:03, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Duddy always strikes me as a daft character from a badly written TV show, the sort where if you watched it you would say "that guy doesn't ring true". Be it the dog, the cross-dressing, the moustache to order, he just seems a bit ridiculous really. And yup I've looked at Patterson's collection a few times. He has some pretty obscure people in there and even has Frankie Howerd if memory serves which obviously makes it great! Keresaspa (talk) 16:31, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

I've found Jim Anderson now on the site - he's a steely looking son of a gun, notwithstanding his rockabilly cut. I remember reading somewhere that Billy Hull weighed twenty stone but unless he's about 6'7" he couldn't be much more than about fifteen stone in the picture with Anderson and if he was really tall I suspect they would have mentioned that in descriptions too. Keresaspa (talk) 16:51, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

You describe Anderson to a tee: "Steely-looking son of a gun". He actualy looks far more dangerous than Herron, Fogel or Lyttle yet Anderson really didn't wield that much power (or did he?!!!) He does have a lovely shade of blue eyes though. God, I wish I had been born with blue eyes. They are just so damned striking and here am I with loads of Irish DNA plenty of blue-eyed ancestors, yet I ended up with hazel eyes as did my siblings!!! Strange.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:01, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

He looks like he could handle himself, that's for sure. I was surprised by Davy Payne's appearance - certainly wasn't expecting him to look like one of The Dubliners! As for blue eyes, they're all fine and dandy but from personal experience I can tell you that if you go outside on a sunny day you're practically blind because of them. Hazel eyes tended to dominate on my mum's side although she has bluey grey eyes whilst I've got pale blue ones. That's my defective Viking blood again! Keresaspa (talk) 17:08, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Have you seen Kevin Myers?!!!! Having seen his photo I just do not buy his self-claimed bedroom antics. As for Gerry Adams...like wine his looks have definiely improved over the passage of time. My dad had blue-grey eyes and my mother a strange pea-green colour. My maternal grandmother had hazel eyes which we (my siblings and I) all inherited. She was a mixture of English, Ulster Irish, Alsatian and Welsh ancestry. BTW, Viking blood is NOT defective! Don't knock yourself.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:24, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Myers must have been paying them with that scarecrow look of his. And I definitely see what you mean about Gerry Adams - he looks weird in the young picture where he has just a moustache. Some guys just carry a beard well, I suppose. And on the female side Theresa Holland is a looker, and Mairead Corrigan and Bernadette Devlin are not without their charms. My maternal grandmother had hazel eyes too so that's where my mum's lot got them from. Not sure about her husband my grandfather though as he died in 1959. In fact only one of my grandparents (my hazel-eyed granny) was alive when I was born and coincidentally two of them died in 1959 (my paternal grandmother, who was only in her early 40s, being the other one). Keresaspa (talk) 17:34, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

I served Devlin back in 1982 when she was campaigning in Clontarf and she and her crew came in to the cafe where I worked. I remember we had a georgeous spring in 1982 and Mairead, myself, my boyfriend (the Robin Jackson lookalike who became my first husband) and a girl from Cork would go up on the roof to get some sun. Mairead was very fair-skinned and wooried about burning. I recall her having pale blue eyes like you. I like pale eyes, they remind me of ice... can be used to great effect.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:51, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Our Mairead? Yeah, she's red-haired so the sun hits her badly. She takes after her dad in that respect as he's ginger, although she physically resembles her mum (my mum's sister) more. For my part I'm afraid I can't really remember 1982 as I only turned three that year! As far as I know I was living a stone's throw from Ballynafeigh Orange Hall back then which made the Twelfth an interesting day. Drunk fluteband members used to walk into houses and use the toilets in my street without asking or even knocking and if the door was locked they used the garden. Heady days! Keresaspa (talk) 17:57, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Without even asking or knocking?!!! Jesus wept. Oh do you know Sean's brother Terence? I remember when he used to stay at the house. Got a big laugh when he took a butcher's at my pictures of English royals such as Anne Boleyn, etc up on my wall.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:03, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

I met him only once when he gave me a lift home from Mairead's mum's funeral in 2007 (her parents having moved to the coast in the early 1990s). As far as I know he still lives down south somewhere. Keresaspa (talk) 18:06, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Nice guy. I remember he was always putting on a fake English accent. Oh Sean once tried to fix me up with his cousin: a lawyer who had moved to Dublin! I believe his surname was Murray.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:10, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Sean's cousin is a lawyer? I never knew that. Keresaspa (talk) 18:17, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Actually I think he was studyinh law as he was in his mid-twenties. He was good-looking with black hair and blue eyes. Very intense guy. He liked me and Sean encouraged it. LOL.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:22, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

So if things had panned out different you and I could have been sort of related by marriage :D Keresaspa (talk) 18:27, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Isn't that weird how fate works? I found him attractive but seeing as I was still in love with my Jacko-lookalike and we did have a baby together, I didn't accept his advances.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 19:00, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

C'est la vie and all that. Keresaspa (talk) 22:38, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Billy McCaughey

Just uploaded a very rare photo of Billy McCaughey.Photos of this man tend to be hard to find so it will brighten up his page no end.I believe the photo to be taken from one of his many failed attempts at election to Ballymena Borough Council or the Stormont Assembly.DColt (talk) 20:02, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Good find. I don't think I've seen a picture of McCaughey before actually. Keresaspa (talk) 22:37, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Neither have I. Nice work, DColt!!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:16, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Brian Nelson

Here is another photo for the family album.The infamous Brian Nelson.Can't think of who he looks like though.DColt (talk) 18:44, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Yikes, handsome I don't think! There is a picture of him in Dillon's Trigger Men book but it was too poor quality to be any use really so well done on another good find. Keresaspa (talk) 19:24, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

I had seen his picture before. Jesu, but he was scary-looking. He actually reminds me of an ugly caricature of Davy Fogel.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:24, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Suffolk,Belfast

I wonder if it would be suitable to have a article created for the Sufflok estate?I found an old archive article created a few years ago but it only was a few lines long and was subsequently deleted.DColt (talk) 11:46, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

It was most likely deleted due to lack of sources explaining its notability. If you've got the sources go ahead and create the page. I personally think it's notable enough. I often create articles that had been previously deleted.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:23, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Good point,it was very basic in composition and had no references at all.I'm glad you agree it's notable enough.DColt (talk) 17:31, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

If you have several reliable sources, independent of each other, notability can be established. If I were you I'd go ahead and create it, making sure you add the sources right away seeing as it was previously deleted.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:26, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

That's happened with a bunch of district articles for Belfast. Unfortunately most of them were redirected to either Belfast itself or Subdivisions of Belfast where there was often no information at all about them. I've tried to merge a lot of those articles to others that have survived nearby recently, Suffolk for instance to Andersonstown as it was probably the closest place to have an article or Twinbrook to Poleglass for the same reason. That was also my thought behind creating articles like Shore Road, Belfast, Springfield Road, Belfast and Antrim Road as articles about places like Tiger's Bay, Ballymurphy and Newington were done away with in similar fashion. Basically though I'll just echo what JB says - if you can find the sources for a Suffolk article then get stuck in. There are bits in the Andytown article that might be useful if you choose to do so, although I personally found them a bit difficult to come by. Keresaspa (talk) 18:57, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

DColt, if you do decide to create the page don't forget to put an Under construction template up. That way it won't be tagged with a speedy deletion. BTW, I cannot understand why Ballymurphy was re-directed? Surely that is one of the areas of Belfast that has definitely established its notability!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 19:19, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Actually Ballymurphy wasn't now that I look at it. I created it as a redirect after I made the Springfield article and forgot all about it. D'oh! Keresaspa (talk) 23:11, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Grugg

I finally found a decent image of John Gregg (UDA) for his article. What do you think?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:52, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

For some reason I thought his article already had one. My head's away these days! Good stuff though. Keresaspa (talk) 18:26, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Last year, I hunted all over Internet for a decent pic but all the images I came across were grainy, indistinct and little more than useless. I found this one today.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 19:03, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Him and Rab Carson have a commemorative mural in the Abbotts Cross/Cloughfern area of Newtownabbey but it makes no reference to the UDA so I couldn't add it as illegal graffiti. Here's a picture just for the sake of it. Keresaspa (talk) 19:31, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

It has its motto indicating a UDA mural!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 20:20, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

It has other uses which you just know the voles on Commons would drag up once they discovered. There is also the issue that I'm unlikely to be in Cloughfern again any time soon, especially as the time I took the picture was to date the only time in my life that I've ever been there. Keresaspa (talk) 20:33, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

True, they might even insist that you are violating copyright by displaying Quis separabit and need to obtain permission from the original author of the Latin phrase as well as the mural painters!!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:28, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

If you ever get the chance or I'm out and about there is a few murals honouring Gregg in the Ballykeel estate in Ballymena and the Parkhall estate in Antrim town.Im almost certain they are marked with the South East Antrim wording and UDA symbols.DColt (talk) 10:38, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm glad I found that image of Gregg. I think all articles should have images.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:50, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

I might get to Ballykeel at some point as I'm an occasional visitor to Ballymena (Parkhall is less likely) although last time I was there I was disappointed to find that the Harryville Billy Wright mural is gone as is the South East Antrim Brigade one close by. Keresaspa (talk) 23:19, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

If you are in Ballymena head up to the Doury Road estate.There is a recent mural of the South East Antrim brigade in Camberwell Way,although I stress it's not a very welcoming area what with a huge drugs problem and other anti social issues.DColt (talk) 10:39, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

A bit out of the way (I don't drive so I go there by train) but I might make it eventually. Keresaspa (talk) 17:46, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Alan McCullough

I wonder if he should have his own article? There's fair bit of media coverage on him.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:28, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

A worthy article yes and theres a mural of him in Hopewell Crescent in the Shankill estate.DColt (talk) 10:39, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

I was just talking about him earlier today oddly enough. That's his father William on Hopewell Crescent though. Keresaspa (talk) 23:13, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Wow, thanks for all the work you did on the article. You did a fantastic job fleshing it out and providing good sources. You're right, McCullough wasn't the actual gunman who shot Gregg. He organised the operation allegedly at Adair's behest. My bad as I'd misread the source. Thanks for pointing that error out. I have seen a photo of him, he was a nice-looking lad. Wouldn't ever take him for a paramilitary. I have since added said image to article.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:22, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

No problem. I sort of knew there would be plenty about him in the three main books. No offence intended with the citation needed - that was more for myself but I went to bed before fixing it! Lister & Jordan don't name the gunmen but they make it pretty clear who they think it was. BLP and all that so I can say nothing although their names are in McCullough's article. Good image find too, I hadn't came across that one before. Hard to judge how much like his dad he was from a painting but assuming it's a reasonable likeness you can see similarities. Keresaspa (talk) 16:48, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm glad you put the citation template up, otherwise I wouldn't have noticed my error. I had just misread the newspaper article. Regarding the actual hitmen, I have an idea who you mean but like you say BLP..... Oh happy days, the Bucky McCullough mural has UDA clearly written on it so it's illegal graffiti!!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:53, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Is Bucky's mural already on the Commons or is that one I need to get? Keresaspa (talk) 17:30, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

I'll go check Commons now? Oh, I discovered who Herbie Millar's mum is: Wendy "Bucket" Millar who founded the first UDA women's unit on the Shankill!!!!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:44, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

No joy. Bucky's mural isn't on Commons.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:49, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Just as well I took one today then. It's on my hard drive and I'll stick it on commons forthwith. Keresaspa (talk) 17:43, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Looks good! Thanks. BTW, did you go around seeking the copyright owner?!!! LOL.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:06, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

I would have had to get in line as the place was crawling with tourists for some reason. You often see a few but no exaggeration there were at least a hundred there when I arrived. Keresaspa (talk) 19:15, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

C Company

I have a rather radical idea. I was just reading the excellent article you created on UDA West Belfast Brigade. What do you think about a separate article on C Company? There were so many members such as "Smickers" Smith, Sham and Herbie Millar, etc and could be incorporated into a page devoted to C Company. Would it work or is my idea too far out in space?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:46, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

It would almost certainly be merged as it is a constituent part of the West Belfast Brigade and most of that article is about C Company already. We would probably be better off working on articles for the individual members I reckon. Lister and Jordan is a good source for pretty much all of them. Keresaspa (talk) 17:40, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Yes, you're right and the article would likely just repeat the same info the West Belfast Brigade already has. I think Smickers Smith and Sham Millar are notable enough for thir own pages.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:49, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

They are, as possibly is Donald Hodgen. I can see your logic in a C Company article but look how you had to fight to overcome the merger police on something as big and notable as the UVF Mid-Ulster Brigade. I rather fear a sub-unit of a sub-unit like C Company would be too hard to defend. Keresaspa (talk) 17:53, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it would certainly be merged. Donald Hodgen is a new name to me. Oh have you heard of Wendy "Bucket" Millar? Not enough for a stand-alone article but there's stuff about her on Google. I added the fact that she founded the UDA's women's unit to the UDA main article. She sounds like one of the beehive ladies Peter Taylor wrote about.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:04, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Hodgen was one of the C Company motley crew. If you ever see any of the footage of Adair standing around the Shankill in his flak jacket during the feuds and there is a guy who is a lot taller than everybody else with him that is Hodgen. Unless he's really fat then it's Thompson. Bucket doesn't ring a bell off the top of my head I must admit. Herbie and Sham yes but Bucket not so much. Keresaspa (talk) 19:18, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

I came across an old photo of him taken in the 1980s alongside Adair and Skelly. He's carrying a flag.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:03, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

That's from the "Gluesniffers March" when Adair's gang was calling itself the "NF Skinz". They marched from the Shankill to the City Hall as a vague show of solidarity with the National Front as well as an excuse to get drunk, sniff solvents and cause mayhem with rival gangs from the Falls. That picture is in McDonald & Cusack. Keresaspa (talk) 17:33, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

You knew that I would!

I ended up finding loads of publications on Wendy Millar so I created an article on her this morning! What do you think of it? I didn't put too much info in about her sons as Sham merits his own page.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:13, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Yeah saw that one coming. She's not in any of the books I have so I can add nothing but nice one anyway. I'll see about Sham tonight as I guess it's my turn. Keresaspa (talk) 18:24, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Nice work! Two in one night. Both are very interesting, engaging articles. Wendy's son is a such fine, upstanding young man, eh?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:58, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Cheers. Once I started last night I couldn't stopped so I figured put two of them to bed. I'm hoping you will have a bit for them from HighBeam as they both end pretty abruptly and would look better with a bit more about what has happened to them since 2003. Keresaspa (talk) 18:28, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

I'll see what I can find. Oh Sham's girlfriend was Alana Griffiths who followed him to Bolton but got homesick for the Shankill.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:37, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

I must admit I don't know Bolton so I can't really comment but it must be a right dump seeing as so many people were homesick for the Shankill! Just kidding folks, I love the Shankill really. Keresaspa (talk) 18:40, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

I suppose they felt lost abroad with so much of their identity being tied to the Shankill.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:02, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

I found an interesting article from HighBeam which interviewed Sham Millar in 2006. I added the gist of the interview plus a blockquote from him. What do you think?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:28, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

That's the stuff. I saw a bit of that article but it was behind a paywall so good show. Keresaspa (talk) 17:34, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

E-mail

Keresapa, here's my e-mail adreess if you'd care to communicate with me privately: [redacted]--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:41, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Will do. Keresaspa (talk) 18:29, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Great! Looking forward to hearing from you.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:25, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

I dropped you a quick line - my address includes my Wikipedia handle so look out for it. Keresaspa (talk) 17:34, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

I checked but it's not there.

Tried again from the same account. It's been playing me up recently. Keresaspa (talk) 18:14, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Tried from a different account - your spam filters might be blocking me out. You try me then - get my address by taking my Wikipedia handle and adding [redacted] to the end. Keresaspa (talk) 23:32, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Will do, thanks!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:30, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

I just sent you a message. I hope you got it.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:43, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Yup, replied now. I'll redact our e-mail addresses to avoid spammers. Keresaspa (talk) 17:42, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

BuckY

Nice job on Bucky's article.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:39, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

I wasn't sure there was enough to make an article but Dillon came up trumps and it seemed a shame to waste the image. I had to stretch things out a bit in parts but I think I got away with it :D Keresaspa (talk) 17:35, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

I was just thinking after tweaking Billy Hanna's article, do you think the nickname "Bucky" comes from being head buck cat?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:57, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

It could well be, although I dread to think what Bucky might mean given his six children! There again his mural image has quite prominent teeth so maybe it's because he was buck-toothed? I'm still trying to work out what Sham Millar is about as he doesn't seem any more fake than the rest of them. Still at least they kept it simple with Jackie Thompson as it's hard to argue with 22 stone = "Fat"! Keresaspa (talk) 18:13, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

IMO, the most menacing nickname has got to be "Slab". That conjures up an abbatoir!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:19, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Mad Dog was a decent nickname until everybody started using then it became a bit of cliché really. Doris Day was probably the most apt nickname though. Keresaspa (talk) 18:39, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

"Ugly Doris" is even better LOL! And Gray's other nickname "Brigadier of Bling"!! Perfect.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:43, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

The worst one is probably Squeak. Imagine hearing Squeak was after you, you would be thinking "what's he going to do, nibble me to death?" Keresaspa (talk) 18:46, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

How about "Basher"? Now that doesn't exactly inspire romantic fantasies of candlelit dinners, walks along the beach hand-in-hand, flowers, boxes of chocolate, the recital of sentimental poems whilst watching sunsets and sunrises together.... Imagine bringing him home to meet one's parents? Mummy, daddy this is Basher...he's taking me out to spend an evening at the Brown Bear....--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:08, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Basher makes me think of something a little ruder but I won't go into that here! Keresaspa (talk) 17:24, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Don't worry I can handle it. Do elaborate please.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:50, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

There's a slang expression for male masturbation "bashing the bishop" and an occasional pseudonym for "wanker" is thus "bishop basher" which is sometimes shortened to just "basher". I presume Bates got his name from beating people up but the duplicity always raises a childish smirk from me! Keresaspa (talk) 18:50, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

In Dublin they called it "choking the bishop"!!!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:28, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Equivalent up here would be choking the chicken! Keresaspa (talk) 03:24, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Tommy Lyttle

I spent the morning adding stuff to the Tommy Lyttle article. I found lots of stuff at HighBeam. He was lucky.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:12, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

He didn't always seem like he could be bothered to me. It was at times as if individual members of the West Belfast Brigade just suited themselves and Lyttle just sat there twiddling his thumbs. Good work BTW. Keresaspa (talk) 17:23, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. According to Kevin Myers he ran a lot of deadly gangs on the Shankill. He's been pretty much overshadowed by the Adair-run C Company. Oh I came across this article with an hilarious sounding title about Gina and Sham-a pity the article didn't contain anything new. Here is part of it: Adair's wife and fatboy lover escape revenge gun raid...--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:38, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I used that article in the Sham Millar article as it was the only source to mention that it was Gin and Sham's love nest rather than Gina's house that McCullough shot up. Keresaspa (talk) 17:51, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I like the image you added to Battle at Springmartin.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:04, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

I was up Ballymurphy today and occurred to me that the one plaque could be used for Springmartin and the Ballymurphy and Springhill massacres so the image seemed like a good idea. Funnily enough File:Divismore.png which I added ages ago is actually from the same garden of remembrance and it was only today I noticed the other one. It faces directly onto the Springfield Road near the junction with Whiterock. Keresaspa (talk) 18:53, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Interesting chap, what?

I was just reading about UFF member Bobby Philpott. He appears in Peter Taylor's documentary Loyalist where he's interviewed. He had some interesting things to say.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:19, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

I remember the rumpus at the time. I haven't heard his name in years. Keresaspa (talk) 00:44, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

He made some rather pointy comments.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:58, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

All about collusion if I remember right. An Phoblacht went ga-ga over him but he seemed to sink without trace everywhere else. Keresaspa (talk) 23:23, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Taylor made him seem more important within the UDA than he most likely was. He certainly isn't notable enough for his own article.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:32, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

He doesn't really seem to be does he? I suppose it suited Taylor to make out like he had a big cheese rather than a small fry. Keresaspa (talk) 17:33, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Same with Bobby Morton and Eddie Kinner. I wonder if Taylor realised who Mo Courtney actually was seeing as he preferred dealing with safe individuals such as Billy Giles, Philpott, etc. Didn't risk going near Billy Wright LOL--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:39, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

He did rather tend to pick the easier options, didn't he. I suppose it's OK for us to say that as some of the others might well have been too dangerous and you only have to look at Martin O'Hagan to see where asking the wrong people the wrong questions can get you. Still, it does make you question his findings a bit when he is relying for his information on some fairly peripheral figures or those like Gusty Spence who, although important, didn't necessarily represent the views of active paramilitaries. Keresaspa (talk) 17:48, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

High school bombing

How bestial can people get? A 16-year-old high school girl was killed by a terrorist bomb this morning here in Italy. It was planted in front of a high school!!!! How can "people" target kids?!!! Jesus fu.king wept. The world is crumbling into anarchy...no rules, no order..anything goes. Hell. I'm furious really fuc.ing angry.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 19:40, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

I heard a bit about that earlier. Shocking. They're saying it's the Mafia here. Keresaspa (talk) 00:45, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Personally I believe it was crried out by local anarchists. I made a few edits last night but some have been deleted (no doubt to improve the stub by having less information).--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:15, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

I went ahead and expanded it this morning as it's getting massive publicity here and a stub won't do. I added the explosion and reaction sections. How does it look: 2012 Brindisi school bombing?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 10:01, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm sure the anarchists will get the blame in the end as Italian governments seem to blame the Left on everything and are all in the pockets of the Mafia anyway. I see there's been an earthquake now too. Keresaspa (talk) 13:57, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't think the Mafia were involved at all. First of all, it's not their style-they wouldn't have used gas canisters nor would they have targeted a high school. And the last thing they'd want is the police on their arse and with the intense manhunt to find the bombers, they have been placed firmly in their sights. I'd say the bombers have more to fear from the local Mafia than the cops. It's no coincidence the Italian PM is out of the country at a G8 summit. I see the attack as the work of anarchists. Already the bombing has caused an intense reaction against the state and at a meeting in Brindisi last night, locals hissed and booed at the bishop and local politicians.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:57, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Former soldier arrested [1]. You'll struggle to find an anarchist in the army. Convenient scapegoats as usual. Keresaspa (talk) 15:04, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Hmm...and his family sell gas cylinders.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:11, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Military background, knowledge of electronics (and no doubt explosives) Billy Hanna strikes again. This is getting creepier by the hour.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:50, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Far right maybe - an awful lot of their Italian activity was wrongly blamed on the Left including the activity of that little shit who is always on here demanding everything about his terrorist past be removed from his article despite it being sourced. Keresaspa (talk) 23:22, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

The girl who died was given a state funeral which was broadcast live. I cried my eyes out watching it.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:37, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

it's not being covered here any more. It got bumped as soon as the Lockerbie bombing guy died. Keresaspa (talk) 17:44, 21 May 2012 (UTC)