User talk:Or-Shalem

Welcome![edit]

Hello, Or-Shalem!

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Happy editing! Cheers, commemorative (talk) 06:37, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: IWI Zion-15 has been accepted[edit]

IWI Zion-15, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. Most new articles start out as Stub-Class or Start-Class and then attain higher grades as they develop over time. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

Since you have made at least 10 edits over more than four days, you can now create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for creation if you prefer.

If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk. Once you have made at least 10 edits and had an account for at least four days, you will have the option to create articles yourself without posting a request to Articles for creation.

If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider leaving us some feedback.

Thanks again, and happy editing!

Vanderwaalforces (talk) 08:00, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Moroccanoil[edit]

Hello. If you had taken the time to read through the article, there is plenty of references in the body, including from the Moroccanoil official website, that prove the company is Israeli. That’s why there is no need to cite them in the first sentence. My respectful take is that you are acting from the perspective of an Israeli who refuses to believe a company from their country can’t be perfect—this is unencyclopedic and against the spirit of Wikipedia, so I invite you to engage more positively and bring content rather than try to take a page down just because you don’t like it. The sources are all there and the article has been significantly expanded since the last time you made your complaints. Regards. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 23:43, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One: I am not Israeli

Two: You are making assumptions about my beliefs (which is unencyclopedic) which is completely incorrect

Three: You're the one engaging non-positively, or in other words your inference that I am acting in bad faith when I am not ironically makes you a bad faith editor

The sources contradict each other on the company's location. It operates between Israel and the United States, meaning it is not solely "Israeli company," and as much as you want to call it as such because you want to make the article somehow "anti-Israel," it is incorrect to do so from an encyclopedic standpoint. Or-Shalem (talk) 04:02, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Four: I have have "taken the time" to read the article and the talk page and it has been pointed out that it is questionable with which country to identify the company in the opener, thus it is better to not use any. I'm sorry that I've insulted your ego by making changes you subject as unfavorable, but I will be reverting the revert to my edit. I appreciate the attempt to make the article more up to encyclopedic standards, so I won't be requesting the article's deletion anymore, but you need to allow other users make changes as well, even if you disagree with the changes, as this is still a wiki. You are jot entitled to be defensive about the article and make accusations against users with whom you disagree. I will contact an admin to moderate the discussion if I have to, as to avoid warring behavior. Or-Shalem (talk) 04:11, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The company is openly Israeli. If you question that, you have to provide sources showing that there are actual doubts on that. Regards. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 09:37, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(And by the way, you are the one who started off questioning the original creator’s good faith by saying – as you did here – that they wanted to have a page against Israel, so again act respectfully before twisting it around and accusing others of doing what you did.) ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 09:41, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My respectful take is that you are acting from the perspective of an Israeli who refuses to believe a company from their country can’t be perfect

@IvanScrooge98 are you serious? I don’t know the context here, but this is totally unbecoming of an experienced editor like yourself, and absolutely constitutes making a personal attack. Zanahary (talk) 22:36, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The context is that of an editor whose first move after the creation of a page was assuming the creator’s (and then other editors’) bad faith. I obviously did not mean this as a personal attack, I was just stating what was the impression Or-Shalem’s attitude was giving to me because their insinuations felt uncalled for, and I meant my comment as an invitation to be more objective. I do apologize for coming off as aggressive. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 22:43, 1 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

May 2024[edit]

There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding your repeated refusal to accept sources. The thread is User:Or-Shalem. The discussion is about the topic Moroccanoil. Thank you. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 19:43, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Moroccanoil. This means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be although other editors disagree. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus, rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Points to note:

Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made;
Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. M.Bitton (talk) 21:13, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion about this WP:CT/A-I-related topic, including at Talk:Moroccanoil, may continue with Or-Shalem's participation as soon as Or-Shalem is extended-confirmed. Until then, please find different topics to edit; the task center and the community portal are full of ideas unrelated to the conflict. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 23:03, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I have offered to discuss on the talk page, but no one seems interested in discussing. If you want to work it out with me, I'd love to talk with you there. Do you want to be constructive or contribute to the war? Or-Shalem (talk) 21:20, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a discussion about your edits here and on the article's talk page, so your claim that no one seems interested in discussing is factually incorrect. M.Bitton (talk) 21:25, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay great. Stop reverting the change and come up with a consensus with me before making this change. Or-Shalem (talk) 21:30, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For the last time, you are the editor who challenged sourced information, you have the burden to discredit it (prove it is not relevant or provide sources stating otherwise) and “change the consensus”, since everyone else so far has supported the validity of the sources and agreed to mention the nationality of the company; other editors do not owe you anything. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 21:34, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am not arguing that the company is not Israeli, because it's a plausible claim. I'm not going to search for sources that claim it is not Israeli because I doubt they exist.

I am saying that the company being labeled as "Israeli" in the opener is subjective and inferred, not an absolute. None of the sources have provided evidence that prove the company is indisputably Israeli, other than the author calling it as such.

On Wikipedia, information cannot be subjective nor from first party sources or databases. The sources for claiming the company is HQed in New York are not suitable for Wikipedia. The sources that call the company "Israeli" offer no definitive proof for the claim. The source for claiming the company was founded in Montreal doesn't explicitly make that claim. There needs to be better sourcing for all of these claims. The one that says the company was founded by an Israeli couple actually is fine as it meets Wikipedia standards. The sources saying it partially operates in Jerusalem is fine because it meets Wikipedia standards. Everything else in the opener is not acceptable. Or-Shalem (talk) 21:46, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And it's on you to prove that what the sources state is “subjective”. If I am Italian no one is going to call me French without saying “he might pretend to be Italian when he is not”. And there are two sources that say the company was founded in Montreal: [1], [2], the first one coming directly from the founder’s mouth. You clearly did not read the sources as I repeatedly invited you to do. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 22:15, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I realize additional sources have been added confirming the company was founded while they were in Montreal - but it doesn't specify that the company itself was founded in Montreal, so I worded it to be more precise and accurate for that claim, which is pretty much universal. I also see more sources claiming it is based NYC have been added, as well.

Upon further reading, none of the sources claim Carmen is Israeli They say she was born in Chile, lived in Montreal when starating the company, and currently lives in NYC. She has family in Israel and visited the country in 2007 to see them. Aside from that, nothing claims she's Israeli. Or-Shalem (talk) 22:39, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We never claimed that she is Israeli. I’m not sure what kind of article you read. And both sources above state the company was founded in Montreal, loud and clear. So at this point I don’t know if you are trolling or gaslighting. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 22:47, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am doing neither. Maybe you don't understand because you're not a native english speaker. Being founded in Montreal is not the same as being founded by people while living in Montreal. Small detail, but important distinction. As in, the company may not have been incorporated as a Canadian entity; we do not know this, and tour discussion with Watt shows that neither of you teo understand where the company actually is located (per your confusion with Moroccanoil Israel Ltd. being the parent company, which is not even mentioned with sourceable articles). Or-Shalem (talk) 22:59, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I did read the sources. And I have repeated time and time again that they do not support the claim you are making. You keep making assumptions about me that are incorrect. Stop. Look at what I'm doing and think. One of us has a narrative-driven goal here and it is not me. Or-Shalem (talk) 22:44, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They do support it. They say it’s Israeli, period. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 22:49, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Notice of edit warring noticeboard discussion[edit]

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. The thread is Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:Or-Shalem reported by User:M.Bitton (Result: ). Thank you. M.Bitton (talk) 22:29, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In looking at your most recent edits, you have substantially a revert beyond three reverts and after you have been warned about edit warring. Would you to revert yourself so it doesn't count against your count? I'll be glad to make the revert myself as a courtesy revert. —C.Fred (talk) 22:43, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

May 2024[edit]

You have been blocked from editing from certain pages (Moroccanoil) for a period of 2 weeks for edit warring. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions.

During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please review Wikipedia's guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text to the bottom of your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 22:56, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]