User talk:Ravenpuff/Archives/2023/December

Verbum caro factum est

Verbum caro factum est - what makes this a minor work, in your opinion? I'd agree if it was just a simple four-part setting, but I think it compares better to Machet die Tore weit (Hammerschmidt) in complexity. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:38, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: A few reasons: it's only two or three minutes long, sets a single verse in a single movement, and (most importantly in my opinion) was published as part of a larger collection (Cantiones sacrae). I'm not familiar with the Hammerschmidt motet, but after a quick glance I think that might qualify as a minor work for Wikipedia purposes as well – a major work would be something like a Bach motet, which has a multi-movement structure. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 07:11, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm just trying to learn. Where would you see Ave verum corpus (Mozart), Bruckner's (one movement) motets, Der Mensch lebt und bestehet and Wachet auf, ruft uns die Stimme (J. C. F. Bach)? Do we have guidelines? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:48, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: Wachet auf is in three movements, so that counts as a major work. Ave verum corpus is more ambivalent, but I would be inclined to keep it italicized as it's a standalone work with it's own Köchel number. The Bruckner motets should almost certainly be minor works, but I'm not sure if consensus was achieved in the past to italicize them – on the other hand, you could also argue that they're also standalone since they have their own WAB numbers. Perhaps this could be discussed on the Bruckner motets talkpage if not previously done. This is all my own opinion, of course.

The guidelines are at MOS:MAJORWORK and MOS:MINORWORK, with more specific ones at WP:NCMUSIC and MOS:MUSIC (section "Classical music titles"). How these apply to individual articles is probably best decided case by case. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 10:51, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

The Schütz Becker Psalms are certainly minor works, but have their own SWV numbers, - that distinction seems just a matter od later numbering. We talk about music 400 years old, and Verbum caro factum est is used as a stand-alone piece, and also as the title of recordings and concerts, - that's what made me decide to give it italics. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:25, 19 December 2023 (UTC)