User talk:ShadowOfLight

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Hello ShadowOfLight! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions to this free encyclopedia. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! -- Levine2112 discuss 01:19, 18 May 2007 (UTC) Getting started Wikipedia tutorial • The five pillars of Wikipedia How to: edit a page • upload and use images Getting help Frequently asked questions • Tips Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Fair use • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The community Build consensus • Resolve disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Community Portal • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Writing articles Be bold in editing • Develop an article The perfect article • Manual of style Stubs • Categories • Disambiguation Pages needing attention • Peer review Miscellaneous User name • User pages • Talk pages Clean up: General - Spam - Vandalism Join a WikiProject • Translation Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

UFC 82

Regarding your recent edits on this page, they have been removed again, for two reasons:

1. "Arlovski v. TBA" is not a match; "Arlovski v. (insert actual name of opponent)" is. If/when Arlovski actually has an opponent for the event, it will be added to the list.
2. You can add a hundred sources that claim Arlovski is rumored for a fight with Jake O'Brien at UFC 82. There's no question about that; the fight was offered. It's still not official, so there's still no fight at this point.

I've added a note that they want him to fight on the show, which (unlike Arlovski v. O'Brien at this point) is actually verified from a reliable source. Please do not add the fight again until there's an actual announcement. Doing so in the manner of your last edit could easily be construed as disrupting Wikipedia to prove a point, which is not constructive. Gromlakh (talk) 03:48, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

At the outset, I want to point out that your comments on my talk page (especially your decision to call me a "dick") are highly uncivil. Please think more carefully before resorting to personal insults in your dealings with other editors. Failure to do so could result in you being blocked.

Addressing the substance of your comments...

1. Wikipedia's purpose is not to be "ahead of the game" on anything. As I've said multiple times, this is Wikipedia, not WikiRumorBlog. News sites and blogs break stories and get ahead of the game; Wikipedia's purpose is to be an encyclopedia. Once there are facts that can be verified from reliable sources, they can be added to the article; not before.
2. "(which we all know is Jake O'Brien)"...you don't have a source for that. It doesn't matter what "we" know, unless there's a source that says that fight is actually happening then it doesn't go into the Wikipedia article. Doing so would be original research.
3. The section you were editing is "Announced Matchups". Arlovski does not have an announced matchup. Dana White announcing that he expects Arlovski to fight at UFC 82 (something that is verified an properly sourced) does not mean that "Arlovski v. TBA" is an "Announced Matchup"; it's not even a "matchup" at all. The statement could be (and has been) added to the introduction as a properly sourced sentence. It also would serve the purpose of alerting the readers that there could be another matchup announced soon. What's the problem with that?
4. I read every single source you cited multiple times. They don't confirm an Arlovski matchup for UFC 82. Sorry. Gromlakh (talk) 19:11, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Arlovski

Consider this your second warning for incivility with other editors. Keep it up and you'll end up getting blocked.

Yes, I have a precedent. Every fighter page. I also have a consensus, as this issue has been repeatedly discussed on WT:MMA; see here for one example. UFC.com is not a reliable source because they frequently embellish fighters' records with amateur fights, exhibition fights, and sometimes just with making up numbers to make fighters seem more impressive. So, their totals are not reliable. Records are reliably traced to Sherdog.com and Full Contact Fighter, in no small part because they actually show tables of where the fights happened and what the actual result was. They're easy to verify, so they qualify as proper sources.

Arlovski has an extra fight listed on his website with John Dixon, so it was added to his record here because it is also verifiable. If you can verify the how/when/why/etc. of the phantom fight from his UFC.com record, feel free to add it and bump his record up by one. Gromlakh (talk) 20:28, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

In terms of the "NO NAME" fight, I don't believe that would count as a "win". It looks like he was in a tournament at the time, one opponent (that nobody knows who it is) didn't show or refused to fight him, and he got a bye. I would not count that, although the UFC might (I'm not sure if that's what they're counting or not). If you disagree, feel free to bring it up on Arlovski's talk page or over at WT:MMA. If there's a consensus to count it as a win, then it'll be added to Arlovski's record.

As to the sources, the issue is verifiability. Sherdog's records can be verified because they include the pertinent information as to the fights and they're not known to be incorrect as to the information they provide regarding the fights they index. Sometimes they do not have all fights from every fighter. If that's the case and one or more fights can be reliably sourced, they get added to their Wikipedia record. UFC.com is not reliable because they do not add fight information and have known to pad fighter records (as I previously stated). Full Contact Fighter's database is sometimes more complete and can also be verified, so it can be used if it's more complete.

Regarding Sylvia, thank you for bringing that to my attention. It's now been corrected. I do not notice every change or every error on every page that I go through. If I notice changes to their records in the changelog, I usually investigate it, but I don't go through the pages specifically comparing records. Aside from that, just because other stuff exists on other pages does not mean that it's acceptable in either place. Gromlakh (talk) 23:26, 13 February 2008 (UTC)