Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Augie March/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 18:18, 15 November 2008 [1].

Augie March

Nominator(s): Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)}, Giggy

I'm nominating this article for featured article because I believe it meets the criteria. A recent peer review has been archived here. Also, a special pre-emptive thanks to Mr Giggy who has done a lot of the tedious legwork on this article. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 23:36, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. :) Giggy (talk) 23:41, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

What makes the following reliable sources?
- ~~http://www.undercover.com.au/Default.aspx~~
  - Undercover is a well known Australian publisher of music-related content. It's used as a source by "undercover.com.au"+site:news.com.au news.com.au (news.com.au), smh.com.au (The Sydney Morning Herald) (who also ranked it fifth on their list of 15 most amazing music sites on the web), and theage.com.au (The Age). Andrew Tijs, author of the work cited, has written for other Australian music magazines such as Beat, Rave (reprint of article), as well as Undercover. Giggy (talk) 23:05, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
~~Current ref 13 (Anthony williams) is lacking a publisher~~
- I removed it and the sentence it cited; it was a scan of an article but I couldn't determine the publisher. Giggy (talk) 23:05, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
~~http://www.imposemagazine.com/index.php/feature-augie-march-3282.html deadlinks (also what makes this a reliable source?)~~
- I fixed the link. Impose Magazine has been cited as a source by a few notable publications, such as Billboard and MTV. That's from Google News—I'm not sure where I can find places more likely to talk about an independent street magazine. (Any ideas, anyone?) Giggy (talk) 23:05, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:12, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Media review

Media concerns met. Awadewit (talk) 14:53, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Images check out, but the sound files should have a more specific reason for inclusion - "informative and educational purposes" is not sufficient. Explain why the specific clip is necessary to the article. Awadewit (talk) 17:06, 3 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've added more specific details to the fair use rationales. Giggy (talk) 00:02, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:AugieMarch-OneCrowdedHour-25s.ogg - I don't think "damn good" chorus is quite strong enough. This is just one person's view, after all. Are the other two clips sufficient? Awadewit (talk) 17:07, 7 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a bit more to the description page. I lean towards keeping this particular sample as it's their biggest hit, the song that most people know them for, etc.. Giggy (talk) 01:08, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That is much better reason for inclusion! I'm satisfied with that. Awadewit (talk) 14:53, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose for now This article just needs a bit of polishing. I suggest that the nominator find a copyeditor. I have identified a few problematic sentences below, but the entire article needs a little touching up from someone unfamiliar with it.

"positive reviews" - The reviews of this band are almost always described as "positive" in this article. Could we find some other words to use?

The event had a significant impact on the band and would play on the back of Richards' mind constantly as he wrote their next album. However, the resultant work was not brimming with despair - "play on the back of Richards' mind" is colloquial; "resultant work" is awkward; "brimming with despair" is cheesy
- I changed the first sentence to "The event had a significant impact on the band and had a substantial effect on Richards as he wrote their next album. However, the resulting work was not brimming with despair; Richards described it as optimistic and humorous." The 'brimming with despair' bit is proving a bit of a tough nut to crack though, although I agree with your point. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 11:43, 5 November 2008 (UTC).[reply]
  - I've reworded it further [2]. Giggy (talk) 00:06, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    - Tweaked a bit myself. Awadewit (talk) 17:13, 7 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Moo, You Bloody Choir would see the band move from solely critical acclaim to mainstream success - awkward; Aren't they moving from "critical acclaim to both mainstream success and critical acclaim?
- changed to "Moo, You Bloody Choir would see the band move from receiving only critical acclaim to achieving mainstream success as well." There are a few other ways this could only be put, like "MybC would see the band moving from receiving critical acclaim for albums that sold poorly, to achieving mainstream success as well as acclaim from music critics", but I feel that this might be a touch too un-professional. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 11:25, 5 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Augie March's musical qualities were certified when they became the winner of the second annual Australian Music Prize for "the most outstanding and creative Australian album released in the past year". - awkward diction - "musical qualities were certified" - This is not the meatpacking industry. :)
- The Australian music industry could certainly be described as like the meatpacking industry sometimes! Nonetheless, I have tweaked this to "Augie March's musical abilities were confirmed when they became the winner..." Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 11:45, 5 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

~~Since the lyrics are supposed to be so poetic, could we quote some of them?~~
- Sure, but the problem I find with quoting lyrics is that things that sound profound when set to music look a bit daggy on paper. How about the chorus to "One Crowded Hour", probably their biggest hit in terms of units shifted:

And for one crowded hour, you were the only one in the room

And I sailed around all those bumps in the night to your beacon in the gloom

I thought I had found my golden September in the middle of that purple June

But one crowded hour would lead to my wreck and ruin

- Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 11:35, 5 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - I agree that would probably be the best to use as an example; there's also an audio sample of it so they tie in together nicely. Giggy (talk) 00:04, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    - Looks good to me. Awadewit (talk) 17:13, 7 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      - Had a go at this: [3]. Thoughts? Giggy (talk) 00:50, 9 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        It's pretty good, but I feel it drops a bit suddenly from the lyrics into the section on WMD. Perhaps a visual cue around the lyrics to break up the wall of text? Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 12:00, 12 November 2008 (UTC).[reply]

I look forward to supporting this article soon. Awadewit (talk) 17:06, 3 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How are we doing finding a copyeditor? Awadewit (talk) 18:58, 9 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've got a particular person in mind (he is perhaps even more familiar with the band than I am), and I'm currently waiting on a response from him. He's not a Wikipedian, which basically makes him the ultimate outsider for our purposes (he is, however, a professional copyeditor on an Australian music website). Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 11:57, 12 November 2008 (UTC).[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.