Wikipedia:Peer review/Flight Unlimited/archive1

Flight Unlimited[edit]

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The article just passed its GAN, and I'm looking to take it to FAC before too long. I plan to expand the article a little—nothing too major; just a few paragraphs—but I thought I'd get feedback now on what it needs to stand a chance at FAC. Comments on prose, content, images and citations are all welcome, but, if you see something else, feel free to bring that up as well. Thanks. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:59, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Prose

Lots of "player" repetition: one instance in the lead, the others in "Gameplay" and a paragraph of "Production". Try to find fitting synonyms, or to reword the sentences to be less dependent on that word (pronouns or "The game allows / [insert verb] ..." – for example, "The player begins the game at the" -> "The game begins at the").
Fixed all but one of these. The last is in the Development section, in a paragraph (Andrew Grant) that requires some heavy tweaking. I'll take care of the repetition when I rewrite that part in the next few days. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 17:53, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I left the one in the lead as well. I've fought with that thing since I started writing that section, but I've never figured out a way to fix it. Any suggestions? JimmyBlackwing (talk) 18:34, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I liked the previous wording ("It allows players to pilot ... and to perform") better here – for the second sentence, it seemed a lot less in-your-face than "The player". You can replace "Players" in the next sentence with "They" without causing problems with clarity. Prime Blue (talk) 18:43, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Fixed the other one, too. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 06:35, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Stroke for now. Will be assessed once I do the complete read. Prime Blue (talk) 22:06, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Alternating uses of "3D" and "3-D" need to be fixed.
The article doesn't alternate. All instances of "3-D" (a somewhat dated spelling) are direct quotes, including the "3-D Cockpit" view, which is the game's official title for that perspective. If you think that needs quotation marks for clarity, I'll add them. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 17:53, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I see. As you left the in-game terminology without quotation marks, I don't think you need them for "3-D Cockpit". Just thought I'd mention it, because it might come up at the FAC. Prime Blue (talk) 18:43, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Alternating uses of "Hoops" (with and without quotation marks) need to be fixed. Explanation of hoops needed in "Gameplay".
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 17:53, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Article suffers from semicolon overuse, most of which can be replaced with periods or conjunctions. The ones that can be kept are:
"commercial success; its sales exceeded 780,000"

"which in turn reduced its flight realism; this necessitated a balance"

"playing the game; he later performed his "entire basic aerobatic routine""

"1999; it continued the focus on general aviation"
Finally managed to axe the semicolons. All but these four are gone. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 02:09, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Remaining problematic direct quotes (if any of those short words happen to be no direct quotes, still remove the quotation marks):
"we've got this new physics guy and he's really stoked, so why don't we try to do a traditional Cessna sim[?]"
Completely breaks prose flow with informal language, not expressive enough to warrant a direct quote.

"not a game, but a playground"

"novice"

"products were not judged by how cool or fun they were, or how good a time you had playing them, but by the implementation of the standard feature set"
Easy to reword without direct quote.
Took care of all of the above. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:33, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Flight Unlimited runs just on the geometry of the shape. [...] Toss in the shape of a lawn chair, and it will fall, tumbling to earth, just like a lawn chair would. When you apply ailerons in the game, the only thing that happens is that you change the geometry of the wing. Everything else derives from that"
Not terribly descriptive for a direct quote. In fact, I have no idea what an aileron is, or what any of this means.
It's kind of a hard concept to explain, which is why I went with a quote. Essentially, Blackley is describing how the simulated atmosphere works. The CFD generates an invisible "fluid" that automatically and realistically reacts to the physical characteristics of any object. If you put a lawn chair (he used this example in countless interviews) in the CFD atmosphere, it would fall, flipping and tumbling, merely because of its shape and weight. Earlier flight games hard coded each plane's attributes into the planes themselves, but this CFD model allowed planes to fly as they would in real life: the plane's architecture and moving parts (like the ailerons) rubbing against the atmosphere. When you adjust the ailerons on your wings, the physical shapes of your wings are altered, which causes the air to flow around your plane in a different way. This changes your direction. If you can think of a way to describe this without relying on the above wall of text, I'll gladly implement it. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:33, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This is a big problem. I can only say that the quote with the example doesn't help, and that even the explanation above was hard to understand without multiple reads. From what I've gathered, "The CFD generates an invisible "fluid" that automatically and realistically reacts to the physical characteristics of any object" is the most important thing to say here, right? If it's impossible to explain the rest better, I'd remove it for the sake of the readers. Prime Blue (talk) 18:43, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I took a shot at rewriting that paragraph. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 20:32, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Mighty fine job. Much, much better. Prime Blue (talk) 22:06, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"approximate"

"He didn't care if he was 20% off in the results, as long as they worked correctly, worked consistently, and the sim felt right"
First statement basically repeats the previous sentence. Reword the new information ("as long as they worked correctly, worked consistently, and the sim felt right"), and join with the previous sentence.
Took care of both of these. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:33, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"really bad airplane"
"built a complete but incorrectly operation airplane". Delete this in the next sentence and reword the aircraft design manual bit slightly to sound less clunky.

"went up in the planes with a portable DAT (digital audio tape) machine"

"digitally-recorded"
Did all of these. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 20:32, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"that the path you are supposed to be on is a far more perfect [one] than anyone could ever achieve"

"judges"
Dealt with both of these. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 06:35, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Small problem with the first one: could refer to quantity (higher number of maneuvers than were humanly possible). Perhaps "maneuvers more exact than". Prime Blue (talk) 22:06, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
After re-reading that sentence, I realized I'd put some incorrect past tense in there as well. Rewrote it to fix both problems. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 02:09, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"When he flew Flight Unlimited, he just said 'pretty cool.' I was so psyched"
I think this quote adds a lot to the article, to be honest. In fact, I used to have it (and other stuff that's been removed from this version) separated into a block on the side. I don't think it should be removed. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 06:35, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"glue, flow, and menus"

"get everything playing nicely together"
Both done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 06:35, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"treadmill of waiting for advances"
Like the 'pretty cool' Blackley quote, I think this adds to the article. It gives a sense of how much they hated the whole system, and you can't really capture that with a paraphrase. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 06:35, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"make forward-thinking decisions instead of just focusing on the short term"

"springboard"

"break-even and our first profits"
Fixed all of these. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:49, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lots of contractions for verbs in "Reception". These would sound less informal if they were not contracted. I included some of them in the comments below, but I think I left out a few.
I think this is pretty much done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 22:48, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You can cut down on some references. For example, if a whole paragraph is sourced with just one reference (after each sentence), you can remove all instances save for the last. This would still suffice.
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 19:49, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Two remaining ones after "by physics programming" (unless you care for the order, here) and "Hanscom Field". Prime Blue (talk) 18:43, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'd remove ", such as the Pitts Special and Sukhoi Su-31": unlike with the maneuvers, "real-world aircraft" should suffice for the lead, and the sentence would read better.
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 03:00, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"and was a profitable commercial success"
Remove "profitable". Sounds weird, "commercial success" already means that it was profitable in a way. Same thing written in "Reception".
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 03:00, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"against a timer or take lessons"
Comma before "or"?
I usually avoid serial commas, so no. If you've seen any in the article, it's probably a mistake on my part. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 03:00, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Lomcevak" starting with an upper-case or lower-case letter? Just because I noticed that the Wikipedia article on it uses an upper-case letter.
Hmmm... good point. Changed. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 03:00, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What does "level flight" mean?
Flying without tilting the plane in any direction. It's a very important fundamental flight concept. I couldn't think of a better way of describing it, unfortunately. Any ideas? JimmyBlackwing (talk) 03:00, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I can't think of anything, but it needs to be clarified (or possibly wikilinked). However, it seems this is not mentioned under "Gameplay". Is it an important element of the game, or did you just need something for the "ranging from" phrase? If it's the latter, there should be an equally "easy" flight technique that you could mention. Prime Blue (talk) 13:07, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The manual offers several examples of basic techniques. Unfortunately, none of them have Wikipedia articles. I went with the most self-explanatory: "rudder turns". JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:12, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That's very good. Don't forget to link "rudder" the first time they are used in the lead and the article text. Also, I think the sentence would read better now if "Immelmann turn" came last. Prime Blue (talk) 22:06, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Done and done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 02:09, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"It was intended to ... compete with other flight simulator franchises at the time, such as Microsoft Flight Simulator"
Was it directly stated by the developers to be a rival product, or is this derived from the comments of the press? If the latter, simply say "it competed with...".
I don't have a specific developer quote about it, but the press makes it pretty clear that it was the company's intention. This Boston Globe quote, for instance: "Looking Glass hopes its ultrarealistic Flight Unlimited will not only be able to compete with other games but will serve as the company's springboard into the realm of electronic game publishing." JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:12, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Seeking to recreate the experience of real flight that he felt other games lacked"
Sounds clunky. Maybe "He felt that other simulations lacked the experience of a real fight, and tried to recreate it with Flight Unlimited." But the next sentence has Flight Unlimited in it, too.
Took a shot at it. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 03:00, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The "in response" part gets in the way now, but it's better than before. Prime Blue (talk) 13:07, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Changed that, too. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:12, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"and assisted the team in making it more true to life"
Comma before?
I don't think so, but I could be wrong. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 03:00, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"but some cited its high system requirements as a low point"
You can savely go for "criticized" here (remove "as a low point").
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 03:00, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"A combat-oriented sequel"
"The combat-oriented Flight Combat was planned..."
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 03:00, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"but a string of development issues resulted in its 2002 release as Jane's Attack Squadron"
"in its belated 2002 release" would probably explain the "but" better.
True. Changed. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 03:00, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"video game; its gameplay is a simulation of piloting real-world airplanes"
"video game, which recreates flights with real-world airplanes"
I just realized that the semicolon was actually wrong. I changed it to a colon instead, but left everything else the same. See what you think. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 03:00, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Still think the single sentence would be better for the lack of "simulator/simulation" repetition, but that's okay. Prime Blue (talk) 13:07, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"represent functions in the game"
"represent the individual functions"
To be honest, I think that this would be even more confusing to a lot of readers. Plus, I dislike the semi-redundancy of "individual". I left the sentence the same, but changed "functions" to "options" to hopefully clarify the meaning. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 17:53, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
My gripe here was with the repetition of "game". Prime Blue (talk) 18:43, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oh. Changed to "menu options" to avoid second use of "game". JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:12, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Six locations are available"
"Six settings/levels are available"
They aren't really levels, so "settings" works fine on its own. Changed. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 17:53, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"displays large amounts of information about the plane's position"
"displays information about the aircraft's position" (remove "large amounts of")
I know "large amounts of" sounds redundant, but it's just because I wrote it sloppily. The purpose of that mode is to offer an absurd amount of detail about your plane (here's a screenshot). Tweaked the sentence to reflect this more clearly. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 17:53, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"offers advice in real-time based on the player's performance"
"offers real-time advice based on the player's performance"
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 17:53, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Basic, Challenge, Distance and Trick"
Should all be in quotation marks if you decide upon quotation marks for "Hoops".
Axed quotation marks for Hoops, so I left these the same. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 17:53, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"extremely difficult test"
Something along the lines of "challenge" would be less POVy here.
It does sound a bit POV, but I think it's a fairly accurate representation of what the manual says: "Trick courses require aerobatic expertise to solve in a short time—the hoops run you through a tortuous path in which aerobatic maneuvers are required. We designed these courses to strain your piloting skills and spatial sense to the limit!" JimmyBlackwing (talk) 17:53, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The biggest problem here is "extremely", which gives a POV impression even if it isn't meant that way. Same goes for the other two uses in the article. Prime Blue (talk) 18:43, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Begrudgingly removed the three instances of "extremely". JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
These will be much more rewarding once you're at FAC. ;-) Prime Blue (talk) 22:06, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The last sentence of "Gameplay" would read better if the orographic lift thing came last (it's easy to read this as "caused by slopes and thermals").
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 17:53, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"The concept of Flight Unlimited began forming in 1992, as a result of Looking Glass Technologies' discontent with contemporary flight simulators."
"The concept of Flight Unlimited originated from Looking Glass Technologies' discontent with contemporary flight simulators." (1992 is still mentioned)
This sentence has always bothered me, but I could never figure out how to fix it. This is perfect. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 17:53, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Quick explanation of Fermilab would be better ("at the ... Fermilab").
Tried to think of something to add, but came up with nothing. Any suggestions? JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Anything about what they do would be good. If you want to keep it more basic, go for something like "at the Fermilab research facility". Prime Blue (talk) 22:06, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That's good. Implemented. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 02:09, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"physics demonstrations—such as those depicting the proper physical characteristics of a falling marble—and the physics for a car racing game"
Aren't both demos using physical characteristics? This would read better along the lines of "physics demonstrations, such as a depiction of a falling marble, and a car racing game."
Rewrote that sentence to increase clarity. Anyway, the "car racing game" wasn't a demo. The source doesn't specify what it was exactly, but my guess is that it's Car & Driver (video game). While that was technically made by Lerner Research, things got pretty fuzzy when that company merged with Blue Sky Productions. So who knows. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"which he greatly admired"
Blackley and not Lerner, I guess? Clarify.
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"However, Blackley instead proposed an aerobatics trainer, which he first conceived while riding a bus across Lexington, Massachusetts and considering what he had looked for in flight simulators he had played in the past. Collaborating with Ultima Underworld II programmer Greg Travis, he created a thirty page concept document outlining the game."
"However, Blackley instead proposed an aerobatics trainer, which he conceived while riding a bus across Lexington, Massachusetts. Collaborating with Ultima Underworld II programmer Greg Travis, he created a thirty page concept document outlining the game, for which he took his past expectations of flight simulators into consideration."
Used part of your version and made a few general improvements those sentences. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"to develop the idea"
Which idea? His idea of the game? Clarify. Otherwise simply "to develop ideas".
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"The first months of the project produced disparate "modules" that demonstrated prospective features."
You'll need a better word than "modules" here to make readers understand what you are trying to say.
Actually, even I don't know what I'm trying to say. The Official Pilot's Guide, which was written by an outside journalist, says this: "In the early months of Flight Unlimited, all that really existed were a few "demo" modules, but there was no cohesive game." I'm assuming that a "demo module" is like a prototype, so perhaps I could change it to "produced disparate prototypes that demonstrated"?

"he wanted to allow planes in the game to perform"
"he wanted to allow the planes to perform"
Rewrote that whole part for increased detail/clarity/quality. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What's a "knife-edge spin maneuver"?
Pretty sure it's this. Wikipedia's coverage of aerobatics is surprisingly slim, though, so there's no article on it that I could wikilink. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If you can't explain the maneuver, you could explain why he wanted to use this one. I guess the reason was that they were not possible in earlier flight simulators? Prime Blue (talk) 22:06, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The source doesn't really say why he wanted to enable them. I added the last piece of information from the source ("a knife-edge spin, just like he'd seen at airshows.") to give it some kind of context. My best guess is that he wanted to do in the game what he couldn't do in real life, but that's pure original research. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 02:09, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If neither is possible, you could drop the name and just say something like "a maneuver that he had witnessed at air shows". Doesn't make much of a difference if you don't know why exactly it was the knife-edge spin. Prime Blue (talk) 12:35, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"and later described his belief that the flight simulator genre had stagnated"
"and later described his belief that this genre had stagnated"
Done, except that I changed "this" to a "the". JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"how planes would operate in prerecorded scenarios"
"how aircraft would operate in prerecorded scenarios"
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

More advanced simulators used a "Newtonian"
Wikilink to Newton, this won't be apparent to everyone.
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"In reaction, Blackley used his knowledge"
"In reaction, he used his knowledge"
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"to create a real-time computational fluid dynamics (CFD) model of "virtual air""
"to create a real-time model of "virtual air" based on computational fluid dynamics (CFD)"
Actually, you'll have to excuse my writing there. The model of "virtual air" is real-time CFDs. I'm going to rewrite that whole paragraph to increase clarity in the next few days. I'll take care of that unhelpful Blackley quote as well. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"CFD" should be "CFDs" in plural per WP:ABBR (however, the CFD article does not do this, either)
I originally took the abbreviation from that article, but I guess it was wrong. Fixed. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"He said at the time that, because of this model"
"Blackley said at the time that, because of this model"
Since I'm going to rewrite that that whole paragraph, this is a non-issue. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"the first flight model designed for aerobatics"
Does "flight model" refer to the game? If so, reword it to include "the first game of its kind".
It doesn't refer to the game. "Flight model" is a semi-slang term that was tossed around by nerdy developers and game journalists in the '90s. Essentially, it refers to the back-end programming of a flight simulator. It's somewhat interchangeable with "physics model", but that term doesn't specifically relate to flight simulators. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think something like "flight game engine" would be easier to understand for the readers, here. Prime Blue (talk) 22:06, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"a "flat plate" model"
"a model of a flat plate" (wikilink, if dishware – there's several meanings)
Source doesn't specify what kind of plate it is, and the "flat plate model" wording is to avoid a possible close paraphrase. Here's the direct quote: "Once he had his physics equations in place and running in real time, he created a model of a flat plate (using a handful of wireframe programs to check movement and to visualize the airflow), and tweaked the equations until the flat plate fluttered down to earth just as it should." JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"finally"
"eventually"
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What's a pinhead book?
My best guess is that he's referring to books about airplanes written by pseudo-intellectuals who don't actually have experience building them. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Seems so. Rewording would be beneficial here, as that's crucial to the sentence and won't be apparent to most readers. Prime Blue (talk) 22:06, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure how I could rephrase it without bordering on OR territory. Any suggestions? JimmyBlackwing (talk) 03:11, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If you're not sure on the wording, I think the safest option would be to link "pinhead" to pseudoscience. Prime Blue (talk) 12:26, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 22:48, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Kurt Bickenbach and Mike Marsicano"
Jobs or titles would be good here.
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"on the one Blackley owned at the time"
"on the one that Blackley owned at the time"
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"complicated the modeling process"
"complicated the 3D modeling process"
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"and recorded them at multiple speeds"
Comma before.
Rewrote the whole sentence. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"wind and engine sounds"
"Sounds of the wind and engine"
Used your version, but changed the semi-colon to a colon instead of a period. I have no idea why I thought a semi-colon was appropriate there. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"The game's flight instructor was created by Andrew Grant and voiced by Tom Steit"
"The flight instructor was created by Andrew Grant and voiced by Tom Steit". What title did Andrew Grant have?
Programmer. Changed. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Repetition of "game". Prime Blue (talk) 22:06, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"not included in the final game"
"not implemented into the final game"
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"The team also sought to include aerobatic competitions in which the player could participate"
"The staff members also sought to include aerobatic competitions, in which the player could participate"
Changed the "staff members" part, but left out the comma. "aerobatic competitions in which the player could participate" is basically "aerobatic competitions that the player could participate in", minus the end-of-sentence preposition. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:15, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"because of difficulties with realism"
Elaborate on that.
Unfortunately, I can't. The Pilot's Guide says that it was hard for them to get the feature to "feel just right", and it apparently "never made the armchair pilots really feel like they were in a real competition." But that's it. I've always wanted to know more about it. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:15, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"After assembling a playable demo of the game"
"After assembling a playable demo of Flight Unlimited"
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:15, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"and advising the team on adjustments to the game's planes"
Comma before, "and advising the developers on adjustments to the plane models".
Fixed "plane models", but didn't add the comma. I don't think a comma there would be correct. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:15, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"testing a maneuver in the game's Sukhoi"
Wikilink Sukhoi.
Done. Also filled out the full name. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:15, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"—a Russian pilot named Sergey—"
Contextual importance of the name?
None. Removed. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:15, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Goulian endorsed Flight Unlimited"
That he endorsed it is pretty evident at this point. Might want to move this somehow.
Well, I mean that he officially endorsed it. The back of the game's Official Pilot's Guide features his picture with the caption "Endorsed by Mike Goulian". I assume that the game's box had a similar treatment. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:15, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Blackley wasn't ultra-organized"
"Blackley [was not] ultra-organized"
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 20:56, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"and described artist James Dollar's belief that"
Whose belief is it now? Takahashi's or Dollar's?
Dollar's. Added a "he" between the "and" and "described" to make it a bit clearer. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 20:56, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Re-reading that, I really can't remember what felt wrong to me, there. Prime Blue (talk) 22:06, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"the team divided into small groups"
Unless they constantly changed, use "the team was divided into small groups"
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 20:56, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Although "publication" is of the same word stem as publisher, I'd replace the "Publication" header with "Release", as that's a more common term for video games.
The material in that section doesn't necessarily deal with the game's release, though. It'd be kind of strange to read something titled Release, only to be greeted by coverage of the company's 1994 cash infusion. Actually, I struggled with that section title for quite awhile. Originally, it was "Self-publishing", but I changed it to Publication for brevity. Do you have any other ideas besides Release? JimmyBlackwing (talk) 20:56, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"had been developed under other video game publishers"
Seems like something's missing here to know what you mean. Developed under contract?
I'm not sure "under contract" would quite summarize what they were doing. I changed it "under" to "for", instead. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 20:56, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"for those companies"
Repetition of "company".
Fixed. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 20:56, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"reported that the company was"
"reported that Looking Glass Technologies was"
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 20:56, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"12-18 months"
"12 to 18 months"
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 20:56, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"most fun I've ever had in a"
"most fun [he has] ever had in a"
Didn't do this, but I made some other changes to the sentence. See what you think. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:35, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
See the "terrain and virtual cockpit" bit below. Prime Blue (talk) 22:35, 31 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 03:11, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"without question"
Possibly remove?
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:35, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"hailed the game's lesson mode as"
"hailed the lesson mode as"
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:35, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"who aren't rocket scientists"
"who [are not] rocket scientists"
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:35, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"he described "taxiing uncontrollably on the ground and going back to the interactive flight school before I ever became airborne", which he called "frustrating""
Huh?
Rewrote for clarity. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:35, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Neat. Prime Blue (talk) 22:35, 31 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Later recommending the game in a holiday shopping guide, Bailey wrote that"
Bailey later recommended the game in a holiday shopping guide, and wrote that"
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:35, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"the game's Trick courses as"
Consistent use of quotation marks for "Trick", no matter which option you go with.
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:35, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"unless you're never happy without something to shoot at ... you'll be too"
"unless [you are] never happy without something to shoot at ... [you will] be too"
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:35, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"If you're a battle-weary veteran of air combat sims"
"If [you are] a battle-weary veteran of air combat sims"
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:35, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What is R&R?
Rest and relaxation. In military terms, it's apparently short for rest and recuperation. So he could mean either one. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:35, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Definitely needs to be written out. Since both mean the same, go for one and place in square brackets. Prime Blue (talk) 22:35, 31 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 03:11, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"terrain and virtual cockpit look almost real"
"terrain and virtual cockpit [looked] almost real"
I'm not sure that's correct, actually. I prefer to keep the original tense in quotes whenever possible. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:35, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If quotes are incorporated into the sentence flow, the tense normally has to be adjusted. For example, the tense would stay the same if it was: He said "Its terrain and virtual cockpit look almost real." Prime Blue (talk) 22:35, 31 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I see. Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 03:11, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

~~"Bob and John Nolan wrote"~~
~~Repetition of "wrote".~~
~~Done. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:35, 30 July 2011 (UTC)~~[reply]

~~Images~~
~~Is there a specific reason for the skewed box art? If you can find a better one, you should replace it. A search turned up this one only.~~
It's the box shot that was here when I started working on the article. I looked around for a better one a couple of times, but, like you, came up with nothing particularly good. This is the real cover, and it's the only version of it on the Internet, as far as I can tell. Unfortunately, it has that annoying Mobygames watermark on it. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:35, 30 July 2011 (UTC) [reply]
~~If you don't care for pixel-perfect accuracy, you can use this modified one. Prime Blue (talk) 22:35, 31 July 2011 (UTC)~~ [reply]
~~Hey, that looks great. I'll upload that soon. How did you find/create it, though? I'll need to know for the rationale. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 03:11, 2 August 2011 (UTC)~~ [reply]
It's the one from MobyGames with the logo edited out. Prime Blue (talk) 12:26, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Added. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 22:48, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Flight Unlimited DOS.png could do with a stronger description and non-free use rationale. You could use a level and mode name under "Description" to better identify the source. You can strengthen the rationale by mentioning that this is the "Three-Way View" (I assume), and that the image shows specific gameplay elements (name them) talked about in the section, which would otherwise be hard to understand for readers. The image caption should reflect that (mentioning the name of the view in the image caption would also be helpful). Additional points for using a "Reception" comment in the rationale, so that the image shows something that a reviewer liked or disliked. The "ghost plane" isn't exactly visible in the image: if possible, replace the image with another version, in which the "ghost plane" is bigger.
I'll try to take a new image in the next couple of days. Question: should I keep it in the prettier 3-D Cockpit view, or change it to the duller-but-more-relevant Three-Way View? JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:35, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You don't have to use the Three-Way View just because it's more relevant. Just go with the one you like better, and try to make the rationale as strong as possible. :) If you run into problems or have questions, I am happy to help. Prime Blue (talk) 22:35, 31 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Something needs to be done about Seamus Blackley.jpg. Either crop it losslessly to show only Blackley, or use Seamus Blackley February 2006.png. Either way, prepare for negative comments toward those photographs, as their quality is subpar. I think you can savely remove "(pictured here in 2005)" from the caption.
Thanks for finding/uploading that other Blackley image. I was going to just crop the existing one, but, after doing so, it looked even worse than it did already. I swapped it out for the new picture, but it seems a bit too large, actually. It kind of dominates the article. What do you think? JimmyBlackwing (talk) 20:39, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The third image caption would avoid repetition if it was something like "The flight instructor was designed to respond to the player in real-time. It provides guidance in the midst of an improperly performed maneuver, such as the Immelmann turn demonstrated above."
~~Tweaked the caption. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 22:48, 2 August 2011 (UTC)~~[reply]

All images need alt text.
~~Sources~~
Again, consider splitting up multi-page sources into individual sections. I know it is a lot of work, but it will guarantee a smoother FA, as that is almost certain to come up again. Still your choice, though.

Some print sources are missing the issue numbers (e.g. Computer Gaming World).

Outside of that, I could find no problems with the sources. So if the direct quotes above are dropped, you will have passed the source review of the FA as well.
~~That's it. Prime Blue (talk) 06:53, 16 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]~~
Wow. Thanks for the massive review. I'll deal with these issues over the next few days. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 16:30, 16 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Took care of a few things. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 03:00, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry it's taking so long to get to these. I should be ready to go again by tomorrow. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 03:59, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No rush at all, take your time. Prime Blue (talk) 12:41, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Made some more changes. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 17:53, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Replied to some comments (stroke out some right away, so checking the diff might give you a clearer picture). I noticed that you cut down some of the direct quotes instead of rewording them completely. While it's ultimately your choice, I still think that these could be easily changed to ordinary sentences without quotes, and would prevent the impression that the article uses too many direct quotes. Also, I checked all sources for close paraphrasing and accurate representation during my review as a preparation for the FAC, so please keep track of the new ones you'll add (so I don't have to go through all of the old ones again). Prime Blue (talk) 18:43, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sure thing. And I'm going back through my print sources to check for/remove any close paraphrasing, since I assume you don't have access to that stuff. In other news, I responded to quite a bit more of your review. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:24, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Good god. Thankfully no edit conflict. Prime Blue (talk) 22:11, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ha! Yeah, I was worried there might be one. Continuing to work my way through. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 02:09, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
From what I can see, we're pretty much through with prose. Great work, as always. Do you want me to go over it again with a final read, or do you still have expansions coming up? Prime Blue (talk) 15:10, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I still have two paragraphs to add, so go ahead and hold off on the final read for now. I'll try to get back to the last few issues tomorrow, and hopefully have at least one of the paragraphs finalized by the day after that. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 05:57, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Expansion complete. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 23:27, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]