Wikipedia:Peer review/Norman conquest of England/archive1

Norman conquest of England

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because… I've revamped it extensively and would like to take it to FAC. I'd love to have it extensively reviewed and all deficiencies brought up so that I can bring it to FAC before the end of the year. It probably could use some looks for comprehensiveness, prose, and MOS.

Thanks, Ealdgyth - Talk 17:38, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Comments: I will do a section-by-section review, which I'll post gradually, if you don't mind.

Lead:

• "He then consolidated his control over England and settled many of his followers in England, introducing a number of governmental and societal changes to medieval England". Too many Englands in one sentence.
  • Fixed. Ealdgyth - Talk 18:34, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
• "Hardrada invaded northern England in September 1066, winning a victory at the Battle of Fulford...". Winning a victory? Is that common to say?
  • Changed to "and was victorious at the Battle of Fulford before being defeated" Ealdgyth - Talk 18:34, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
• "On 14 October Harold's army confronted William's invaders near Hastings and after an all day battle, was defeated and killed.". Careful with the subject: Harold's army may have been defeated, but it was Harold who was killed. Also, link 'all day' with a hyphen and put a comma after 'October'.
  • Malleus tells me I don't need commas after an introduction like "on date" - so I've avoided that, I believe it's a Brit thing. The later part now reads "and after an all-day battle, was defeated and Harold was killed." Ealdgyth - Talk 18:34, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
• "English resistance led to a number of the English elite...". Again, 'English' repetition.
  • First "english" changed to "Native" Ealdgyth - Talk 18:34, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
• "... went into exile abroad.". Redundancy: exile = abroad.
  • Removed the "abroad". Ealdgyth - Talk 18:34, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
• "In order to control his new kingdom...". Since you use 'control' further on, I'd change this expression to something like "In order to reinforce his sovereignty...", for instance.
  • Changed the second "control" to "command" Ealdgyth - Talk 18:34, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
• "Other changes included the introduction of French as the language...". Language of what? National?
  • "introduction of French as the language of the elites and government" now... oops, incomplete thought there! Ealdgyth - Talk 18:34, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
• Unnecessary to link common nouns like 'castles' and 'slavery', if they are not vital to understand the article.
  • I don't think I linked them, honestly. Suspect a driveby, although castle is probably not a bad idea to link to. I've delinked slavery though. Ealdgyth - Talk 18:34, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
• It's not too important but I noticed in the map that the date format of the Fulford battle is different from the others. Also, the caption could be improved to something like "Location of major events during the Norman conquest of England in 1066". Parutakupiu (talk) 19:34, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Fixed... I'll get to the rest later. Ealdgyth - Talk 18:34, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Origins:

• "... allowed a group of Vikings under their leader Rollo...". I'd change to 'led by Rollo' considering that you use again 'under Rollo' further on.
• "They also used the territory granted them as a base to extend the frontiers of the duchy to the west, annexing territory...". Replace 'They' with 'The Normans' to avoid a series of sentences beginning in the same way. Also replace one of the 'territory' instances.
• "In 1002 King Æthelred II of England..." Add comma after 1002.
• "... powerful Norman interest... ". More 'influence' than 'interest', maybe?
• "... formidable Godwin, Earl of Wessex...". Reads as WP:PEACOCK.
• The sentence starting with "Edward's immediate successor was..." reads too long. Also, you could state that Harold Godwinson was the son of the previous Earl of Wessex, Godwin, so that readers do not get confused by reading two different named Earls of Wessex so quickly in succesion.
• Don't start the image caption with a number ('13th-century' → 'Thirteenth-century') as per WP:ORDINAL.

Tostig's raids and the Norwegian invasion:

• "... recruited in Flanders, and was later joined by other ships from Orkney."
• "... but he was driven back to his ships..."
• "King Harald III of Norway invaded northern England...". I think that you can refer to him as Harald Hardrada (vide lead image and previous section).
• "... 300 ships carrying perhaps about 15,000 men."
• "Learning of the Norwegian invasion, he rushed north, gathering forces as he went along the way, and took the Norwegians invaders by surprise, defeating them at the Battle of Stamford Bridge on 25 September."
• "Harald of Norway and Tostig were killed...". Parutakupiu (talk) 22:59, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Norman invasion:

• "Meanwhile William assembled...". Comma after 'Meanwhile'.
• "The army was ready to cross the Channel by about 12 August.". Link to English Channel. Plus, you can merge this (short) sentence with the following.
• "The Normans did not in fact cross to England...". Move 'in fact' to the beginning.
• "... threatened Norman invasion". Shouldn't it be 'threathning'? Anyway, I'd drop the adjective altogether or replace with 'Norman threat'.
• "... the exact events are obscured by contradictory accounts in the sources.". This expression is repeated within a short segment of prose. Avoid it by rephrasing.
• "Twice more the Normans fled, these times feigned,...". I know what you mean but it reads awkward.
• Link William of Jumièges (so one can understand who is the claimer), Bayeux Tapestry, and Gytha (to Gytha Thorkelsdóttir).
• I would anchor the tapestry image to the previous paragraph (which speaks about it) to avoid it crossing into the next section.

English resistance:

• "Despite this submission,...". Which submission? Imagine that I did not read the previous section...
• "In 1067 rebels in Kent...". Comma after 1067. Try to fix similar occurrences along the article.
• Link Dover Castle.
• You no longer need to link Gytha in this paragraph if you did it in the previous section.
• Robert fitzRichard → Robert Fitz Richard
• "In the south-west rebels from Devon and Cornwall..." Comma before 'rebels'.

Control of England:

• "Henceforth, all land was 'held' from the King". From or by?
• "... and redistributed part of these lands them." Parutakupiu (talk) 09:56, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Consequences:

• "tiny residue"→ replace 'residue' with 'fraction'.
• "... high governmental and ecclesiastical office.". Pluralise 'office'.
• "... fled the country.[56] Many chose to flee to Scotland, Ireland, and Scandinavia.". Merge these two sentences.
• "... a group of Anglo-Saxons in a fleet of 235 ships sailed for the Byzantine Empire." Move 'in a fleet of 235 ships' to the end.
• Remove the period from the Varangian Guard image caption.
• In fact, I noticed that you force most images to have a bigger size than the default one. The MoS clearly prefers the default one to be used, unless details are important and merit a zoomed image. Most images don't require this, and their increased size is disrupting some sections or require blank space-adding tags to be added to prevent it. Parutakupiu (talk) 16:11, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
• "... the royal court was the centre of government and royal courts existed which worked to secure the rights of free men.". Confusing.
• "... which was built on the English system of taxation, which included a land tax, or the geld.". Which... which...
• "... to most of the other currency in use in northwestern Europe...". Shouldn't it be plural? Currencies?
• "... were Normans, not English."
• "The language of official documents also changed, from Old English to Latin.". This could go to the 'Language' sub-section, no?
• "continental persons". Although the plural should be 'people', this expression is strange to read and be heard, imo. How about 'continental Europeans'?
• "... but in the extent of this practice..."
• "... during the years before 1100, but these marriages were not common, with as most Normans"
• "... had become common. By the early 1160s, Ailred of Rievaulx was writing that intermarriage was common among all levels of society.". These last two sentences speak about the same, so you can merge them.
• "There were about 28,000 of them...". 'Them' who?
• "... for the 20 years.". I reckon 'the' should not be there?

Notes:

• Where is the source for this?

Citations:

• I'm not an expert of this matter, but the citation format you use shouldn't it be 'Author surname (Year of publication), page(s)'?
  • Nope, this is a fine citation method - I've used it on approximately 50 or so FAs. Ealdgyth - Talk 18:34, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Hope I helped. Parutakupiu (talk) 18:07, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Most certainly you helped! Thank you for such a thorough review... I'll be working on these over the next few weeks or so... Ealdgyth - Talk 18:14, 27 July 2012 (UTC)