Wikipedia:Peer review/Serial Experiments Lain/archive1

Serial Experiments Lain

Submitting to peer review before going through GA nomination process. Please advise about style, content value, general interest, and any other criteria you should find relevant (GA or not). Many thnaks in advance.--SidiLemine 12:27, 23 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This article need to be expanded to be less "in-universe". Try adding a criticisims section and a section about how the show was developed to bring it out of this perspective. Tarret 13:51, 23 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The criticism section is included in the "reception" section. Do you think there should be more? I'll try to find stuff about the origins of the show, althought that would probably fall in "Influences".--SidiLemine 14:45, 23 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm focusing on organizational and format issues here. The list of episodes link should be linked to under the Plot heading, with the empty section of that name being deleted. The spoiler tag should preceed the text of "Plot." The "Influences" section needs more citations. As it is, most of "Research" risks being cut per WP:NOR. Also, the subsections for writing and character design in should probably be titled "Writing" and "Character design," with the people discussed in the text. On that note, use the manual of style for Abe's name. The PS game should probably be given an infobox. And a brief reading of the article suggests that most of the "See also" section should be cut. I understand how the topics might relate to Lain but the article's text doesn't really establish the connection. (The way I see it, is that See Also should be used for other anime/manga/games or relevant people. Things like "theodicy" should be linked to in the text as they are warranted.)--Monocrat 05:17, 24 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

See also is too long, try merging with main body and removing anything that is already linked there or not that relevant.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk} 05:45, 24 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Monocrat. That's appreciated. Do you mean there shouldn't be a "List of episodes" section, but just a link under "Plot"? For the influences section, all is referenced; precisely, for Konaka, all info comes from the same interview. Should I put several inline citations pointing to the same intetrview? About Yoshitishi ABe's name, this is the way he states it is written in romaji, with the B capitalised. About the "See Also", I think you're not supposed to put things mentionned in the text there; so it would be hard to make a connection. I think most of it will go thought. I'll get an infobox for the PS game; but the manga (a few-pages doujinshi in an artbook) will do without ;)--SidiLemine 09:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sidi (is that right?), you're correct that there should not be a separate section for the list of episodes link. The {{main article|List of Serial Experiments Lain episodes}} should go just above or below the spoiler warning in "Plot". (I personally would prefer above the spoiler warning for aesthetic reasons, but I'm unsure what is officially sanctioned.) You might want to, as you suggest, add a few more inline citations in "Influences" even if you don't add any more sources. I withdraw the comment about ABe—policy seems to have changed recently. :) What I meant about the "See also" section is that concepts like "Artificial intelligence" and "Theodicy," and their relations to Lain, need to be introduced in the text. Right now, no real link between Lain and these concepts is spelled out.--Monocrat 03:33, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I speckled the articles with some {{fact}} tags, try to cite them.
Japanese names needed for all characters.
Lead is very poor. Polish it up.
List of episodes should be under "See also" section. Or, a template box should be made to include it. I don't think there are any other Lain related articles atm though, so that method should wait.

That's just my opinions from my first read through.--SeizureDog 19:35, 25 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yup, it's Sidi. I'm OK with not having a section with no text, and just a link. But on the other hand, it's a one-season-series, so I figure the episodes should be in the main article. On the third hand (make it a foot), the episode list looks really cool by now, so I was thinking about keeping it, and having a single line by episode in the article, with name, air date, and maybe a non-spoiler sentence. But I guess that's not the most urgent.

I'll add multiple refs to the same source in the same sentence. I sure understand the point, but I still feel funny about it.

About the "see also", I'm still puzzled... I mean, I wonder how you can introduce something in the text, and not mention it. I guess that'll leave only Kairo for now. And the relationship is a distant one at best. Or, is the "see also" for similar stuff (ie concepts for concepts, works for works, etc)?

SeizureDog:

I'll go ahead with the sourcing, I think only the "1:15 am" thing is going to be hard. Nobody records audiences that late :).

It'll probably be easier to just remove the comment about hardly anyone seeing it and let readers assume.--SeizureDog 20:13, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

About the lead, I thought it was good, being short, formal, and informative. By "polishing", do you mean going deeper in the substance of the anime? (example please!)

It doesn't have flow (i.e. jumps around too much). You've got 4 short paragraphs where you should have one or two medium/long ones. Also, technical details (who made it, when it played) generally come before the primise in the lead.--SeizureDog 20:13, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

About the Japanese names, I'd be glad, but I don't even have the japanese plug in (oh! the shame! the whips and scorns of time!).

It shouldn't be too hard to find, desho?

Thanks guys, I'm on it. I'll let know when done so you can come back and beat me some more.--SidiLemine 12:47, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comment Lack of consistancy with the show's name. Is it Serial Experiments Lain or Serial Experiments: Lain (with colon)? --SeizureDog 20:13, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're right about the audience. Maybe when I'll get time I'll try to get some sources to say that shows broadcasted at this hour generally don't get lots of attention :).

I'll look around for good leads and copy one.

Haï, haï! To tell you the truth, I can't configure this PC to see anything but big squares in place of japanese language. So it'll have to be someone else's doing.

About the colon, I'm pretty sure it is with colon, but didn't change the title as I don't have a copy of it, and the litterature on the subject is itself inconsistent (see "controversy" on talk page).--SidiLemine 10:26, 27 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK, so I've rewrote the lead. Any better? I'll wait consensus about the colon before taking action. About the Episodes List, I thought it would be good to have a list with the titles, as they are quite evocative, and for anyone who remembers an episode but couldn't tell if it's in the beginning or the end (knowing Lain, it happens). I've managed all the {fact} tags except one: the one about the game. I think I know where it came from: a forum transcript from "thought experiments lain". Is that somthing I can cite? I don't think so, but it's the maximum I could get on the game, so I'm afraid the whole section would follow if I deleted it. And the article needs a section about the game. --SidiLemine 16:12, 27 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please see automated peer review suggestions here. Thanks, Ruhrfisch 03:35, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]