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November 19[edit]

Question moved[edit]

Moved to Talk:Arlene Francis
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peter gabel who was arlene francis son wrote his mother didnt have cancer-who is your source signed vincent callea

What genre is the song "Emo skater girl (Thrillville)"?[edit]

What genre is it? I wish I can find other songs like it. 71.79.234.132 (talk) 01:10, 19 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a youtube link with lyrics for convenience [1]. Genre classification can always be a bit contentious. I would call it a type of garage rock (fuzzed guitar, simple arrangements, slightly aggressive, small band, etc), though of course we also have a whole article on the genre known as Emo. I would recommend Weezer as having a similar (and better IMO) sound. E.g. Buddy_Holly_(song) [2], which also happens to have a video directed by the great Spike Jonze. SemanticMantis (talk) 15:29, 19 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Metroidvania fans--Nonlinear Games Question[edit]

Hello all, being a fan on Nonlinear games, I have come to prefer side-scroller games over 3-d(although I still like them).

But I have a question. While we all know that Metroid anything is nonlinear, including first person shooters, do first person shooters themselves qualify as "nonlinear"? Just wanted to know, some shooters I've played are very linear, so i thought I'd ask. M^M 19:54, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

If all things Metroid are nonlinear, and some things Metroid are first person shooters, all things first person shooter aren't linear. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:10, 19 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Simple and accurate, though as I mention below, I think selling Other M as "nonlinear" is a tough argument to make. SemanticMantis (talk) 20:16, 19 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know, haven't played a Metroid since the first one. As of yesterday, Grand Theft Auto V is first person, and I can't imagine anybody calling that linear. Not sure what Castlevania II was. Sucked, anyway. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:31, 19 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Linearity" in games usually refers to the order in which objectives must be reached, or the number of paths through a level. So Castlevania I is very linear, while Symphony of the Night is very non-linear. "First person shooter" really just means that the camera is behind the eyes, and that things will be shot. So, classic FPS like Doom of Castle Wolfenstein are very linear, one level at a time, no real choices on how to move through the level. But genres get very blurry. For example, Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas are designed for mostly first-person play, and you shoot things, so it could be called an FPS, even though there is an over-the-shoulder camera mode. But they also have open worlds that allow for exploring things and getting things in different orders, so they are nonlinear. Finally, the character development and story make them fall into the RPG category. So it's fair to say that Fallout 3 is an RPG with FPS and nonlinear sandbox elements.

Beware of the No true Scotsman fallacy, some people might say Metroid Prime is not an FPS because it has lock-on and isn't as twitchy as Halo -- but they are wrong. The point is, in modern gaming, it's better and more clear to describe elements of gameplay than to fit things into somewhat outdated genre boxes. For example, Metroid Other M is fairly linear, in my opinion, even though it is a Metroid game... Some FPS are highly linear in gameplay, some are highly nonlinear, and the FPS attribute doesn't say anything about linearity of gameplay. SemanticMantis (talk) 20:16, 19 November 2014 (UTC) P.S. check out cave story if you haven't already :)[reply]

Thank you.it's much more clear...well, a little. So, in this sense, now that you explain it, I'd say FPS is more of a "art" form, think anime. You can really have any type of game in FPS form, but it's still FPS. Makes sense, right?M^M 17:39, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Naively, FPS just means two things, the perspective and the shooting. So sure, we could have an FPS puzzle game where you shoot chickens at buttons to solve puzzles. Or an FPS racing game where you run around and try to shoot the leader so you can pass. You get the idea. Again, the issue is with defining genre with respect to tools of presentation vs. with respect to gameplay mechanics. Anime is sort of a decent example, because there is Anime action, comedy, romance etc. Anime just means it was drawn, and made in Japan. So it's not really a genre, more of a presentation method. Just remember most genre classification is subjective, there's usually not one right answer, that's why people like to debate it so much :) SemanticMantis (talk) 20:14, 20 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A game like Skyrim is so non-linear, you can either shoot in first person, slash in third or harvest potatoes in top-down view (the way it's meant to be played) the entire way through. That one's hard to stick a label on. As is Duck Hunt. We don't see hands or hear one-liners, but we're presumably seeing through the eyes of a mysterious character lying very still, whose dog doesn't respect him (or her). InedibleHulk (talk) 01:35, 21 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

And therein lies a problem: people usually wouldn't call Skyrim an FPS, even though you can shoot stuff from a first person view. Instead, it usually gets called an (action)RPG, I think mostly because FPS has gotten associated with twitchy action gameplay, even though it shouldn't have, IMO. SemanticMantis (talk) 15:25, 21 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

When I see anything that looks like Call of Duty, I just call it a CoD. Even Halo. But yeah, genres are tricky in all media and trying to nail them down (especially online) can get scary. What's really terrifying is the potential confusion of Little Big Planet 3. Even in the first one's early days, someone used the tools that were supposed to make Mario platforms rise to build a damn calculator. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:23, 21 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think the worst game genre for useless debate is "roguelike" -- if you check reddit.com/r/roguelikes, they can hardly go a day without screaming at each other over what games qualify :) SemanticMantis (talk) 17:34, 21 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ha! "Roguelike-like". How "post-postmodern". Diablo II had a cool "world fusion" soundtrack. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:15, 21 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]