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September 14[edit]

"Do not feed the birds" sign at Languages of the United Kingdom[edit]

Hi all,

It would appear to me possibly useful to a reader of that article if the languages on the sign were identified.

Here's what I can see:

line 1: Some horrible mongrel mix of a West Germanic language with Norman French spellings interspersed with pseudo-Latin and -Greek etymologies resulting in an utterly ridiculous orthography
line 2: Devanagari script - which language?
line 3: Obviously Hindi
line 4: Arabic script - maybe Urdu?
line 5: Devanagari script - which language?
Line 6: Obviously Tamil
line 7: Arabic script - maybe Urdu, maybe some other language of the subcontinent that uses Arabic script?

Your thoughts (hopefully sourced from reliable references) about this?

11:41, 14 September 2023 (UTC) Shirt58 (talk) 🦘 11:41, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Line 4 is indeed Urdu, the 1st word being wikt:پرندہ; and line 7 is Farsi, the 2nd word being wikt:پرنده Crash48 (talk) 11:57, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Line 2 is in Gujarati script, differing from Devanagari by the loss of the characteristic horizontal line running above the letters; and line 5 is in Gurmukhi, most commonly used for Punjabi language. Crash48 (talk) 12:03, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm quite surprised about the Farsi but otherwise that selection of languages makes perfect sense for London. Line 5 does seem to be Punjabi, the first word is ਪੰਛੀਆਂ = bird-PL-OBL. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 12:17, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Farsi is the 18th most spoken language in the UK, but in a multicultural city like London, it is probably higher than the country at large. --Jayron 32 17:59, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The sign comes from the London Borough of Brent where there is a sizeable Iranian community; see Harrow Iranian Community Association and The School of the Islamic Republic of Iran. I believe that Farsi is also understood by many Afghans, who also have a community in the borough. Alansplodge (talk) 10:31, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Arabic characters in the last line are not joined correctly (there's what is called in PostScript an "eofill" problem). From the U.S. point of view, what's odd isn't really multiple languages, but that none of the non-English ones use the Latin alphabet. I'd like to see the "Don't feed the pterodactyls" sign in an achronic London in Dr. Who be given a similar treatment...

AnonMoos (talk) 22:18, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's kind of sad that they've apparently done away with "Feed the birds, tuppence a bag..." Also, the logo looks suspiciously like Wikipedia's "do not feed trolls" illustration (or maybe it's the other way around?) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:14, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

From the same London Borough:

“Concerns have been raised on the impact of bird feeding for three reasons: where excessive foods are left which attract rats to the park, food left may not be suitable for consumption of the wildlife in that park and cause injury or death, and [could] attract significant flocks of birds who defecate over persons and property.” [1] Alansplodge (talk) 10:31, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And perhaps the language order reflects the fact that "Many religious groups, including Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs, feed pigeons for religious reasons" [2] Alansplodge (talk) 11:23, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Introducing hawks and owls might help take care of any rats. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:33, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Various hawks and owls are indigenous to the British Isles. If they aren't already present in this particular locale (and I suspect they are), it would be because because the environment isn't suitable for them, so 'introducing' them would merely result in them dying or flying elsewhere.

In an urban and suburban environment, rats are sufficiently capable of avoiding hawk and owl predation that they can pose an at-least-temporary annoyance and/or health risk to the human residents. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.194.81.165 (talk) 22:00, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also, a brown rat weighs "between 140 and 500 g" and a tawny owl weighs "from 385 to 800 g", so a big rat is heavier than a medium-sized owl. Alansplodge (talk) 17:56, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Shirt58: The source https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2726682 linked at File:Multilingual "Do not feed the birds" sign on canal bridge - geograph.org.uk - 2726682.jpg says they are:

1. Gujarati, 2. Hindi, 3. Urdu, 4. Punjabi in Gurmukhī (Gurmukhi) Script. (It can be written in other scripts). 5. Tamil, 6. Persian/Iranian (Farsi)

No idea about a verifiability level. --CiaPan (talk) 10:37, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I just twigged that the "mongrel mix" was English - I thought the reference (when I read the discussion soon after it opened) was to the first line of non-Roman script. That led me to check Amharic, Dravidian, Gujerati and Thai in an unsuccessful attempt at identification. It was CiaPan's reference to six lines, although the OP referred to seven, which put me right. 2A02:C7B:11A:B900:201B:614B:4D4A:9563 (talk) 13:39, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Only one line is Devanāgarī. I think what you meant to say is that four of them (Gujarati, Hindi, Panjabi, Tamil) are Brahmic scripts. —Tamfang (talk) 17:05, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

How ironic that "Some horrible mongrel mix of a West Germanic language with Norman French spellings interspersed with pseudo-Latin and -Greek etymologies resulting in an utterly ridiculous orthography" has become, for better or worse, the lingua franca (more irony) of the world. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:25, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Less ironic than Alanis Morrissette... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 12:32, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]