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February 24[edit]

February 25[edit]

Translation of a word to 'royal Thai' and 'religious Thai' please?[edit]

The word is 'moisture'. Can I have the street and rhetorical words for it too please?

Thanks Adambrowne666 (talk) 04:21, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

ชื้น is the general Thai word meaning "damp" or "moist". Adding the prefix ความ yields the standard Central Thai word for "moisture": ความชื้น. A general alternative is ชุ่ม, meaning "damp, moist or wet", and it is often combined in the typical Thai way to produce ความชุ่มชื้น (Thai pronunciation: [kʰwaːm˧ tɕ͡ʰum˥˩ tɕ͡ʰɯːn˦˥], roughly khwam chom cheun), "moisture". Another alternative is เปียก, but that can also mean more wet than moist. I'm not aware of a commonly used royal/religious synonym, although a Pali, Sanskrit or Royal Khmer word pronounced as Thai probably exists. When speaking of royalty/clergy, I would replace the common prefix ความ (kʰwaːm˧) with the equivalent Pali-derived prefix สภาพ and use สภาพเปียกชื้น (Thai pronunciation: [sa pʰaːp˥˩ piak˩ tɕ͡ʰɯːn˦˥].--William Thweatt TalkContribs 04:01, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Brilliant - thank you for the thorough answer. Adambrowne666 (talk) 22:02, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Pronunciation of the name Pólya[edit]

The Wikipedia page for George Pólya has the Hungarian pronunciation of the mathematician's surname. Does anyone know how the professor pronounced his name when he lived in the U.S.? -- (talk) 05:09, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

I can't find a source for how he said it, but every mathematician in the USA I know has pronounced it similar to /POLE-yuh/ or /PAHL-yeh/ SemanticMantis (talk) 19:10, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

"Fully-springed mattress" or "fully-sprung mattress"?[edit]

Hello, again!

[Some time ago], I started a discussion on how English speakers derive adjectives directly from nouns by using the -ed suffix, and how said usage differs from the (somewhat similar) phenomenon of past participles doubling as passive adjectives. Now, a new quirk in the language has caught my eye.

The Oxford American Dictionary, Third Edition gives several definitions for the verb to spring, including "to provide a mattress with springs." Furthermore, it gives sprang or sprung as the only allowable past participles for the verb in question. Also, it separately lists the adjective unsprung, defining it as relating to "a mattress not having springs in it." Now, this strikes me as rather odd.

Since—in the case of mattresses—the adjective relates to springs and not to springing, then wouldn't one say "fully-springed" or "unspringed mattress?"


I mean, why should we have "fully-sprung mattresses," but not "paid hull decks," "relaid electrical impulses," "spat roast," "retrodden tires," or "recently cost natural-gas reserves"?

Pine (talk) 09:30, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

It seems like an odd statement either way. Do you have any examples of either usage in mattress advertisements? Though I have to say that a "sprung" mattress would conjure a mental picture of a mattress that's in such bad shape it has springs poking through the material. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 10:05, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
I found this ad for[| springed] and this one for [sprung]. Unfortunately, neither manufacturer is headquartered in an English-speaking country, so I'm inclined to take both cum grano salis.
As a side note, however, usage commentator Bryan Garner (whom I've referenced before) [agrees with me]. Do any of you, as well?
Pine (talk) 10:49, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
I agree with you. It should be "fully-springed", not "fully-sprung". The meaning being conveyed is that the mattress is equipped with springs (or, put differently, has springs as a feature), not that it has undergone some "springing" process or treatment. -- (talk) 13:35, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Whatever it should be, I can assure everyone that in the UK "fully-sprung" is usual if not universal – as an Ukian born and bred, I've never (in 6 decades) encountered "fully-springed" and would assume it to be mistake by a non-native speaker. {The poster formerly known as} (talk) 13:42, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Same in the US. It's sprung; logic be damned. I think "springed" just "sounds weird". It's not that Anglophones can't say it; it rhymes with "dinged", for example. But it's an unusual enough consonant cluster that there's a resistance to it. --Trovatore (talk) 19:03, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Do English speakers call Saturn the "rung planet"? (talk) 20:29, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
No. But I think you knew that. --Trovatore (talk) 20:35, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Indeed, agreed. Sprung is the normal term in English. (talk) 17:08, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
And sprung is also usual for vehicles, as a Google search for "sprung automobile" or "sprung carriage" (for example) shows. Deor (talk) 18:54, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Also, released on parole, or "sprung from the joint." ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:56, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
But that's from the verb, not the noun. — kwami (talk) 22:25, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
  • The mattress has not sprung, partially or fully. It has springs, like a four-footed animal has feet. μηδείς (talk) 17:32, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
    • What would be an example of a mattress that's not "fully" spring/sprung? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:22, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
      • Foam rubber, or whatever euphemism the manufacturers choose for it. See mattress - "so-called hybrid beds, which include both an innerspring and high-end foams". Tevildo (talk) 23:05, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Never heard the phrase, and I find it opaque. A "fully sprung mattress" could only be a mattress in which the springs have fully sprung, or s.t. similar. "Fully springed" does sound odd, but I'd at least understand it, though like Bugs I'd wonder what a partially springed mattress would be. (I suppose half-way through its manufacture, before all the springs were added.) — kwami (talk) 22:24, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

  • I agree with other posters that "fully-sprung" is the normal English term. "fully-springed" is weird and looks like an error. (talk) 04:02, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
  • I can't say that I've heard either term, but "fully sprung" sounds to me like something that is broken (i.e. the springs have exhausted their elasticity and are now completely "sprung"). "Fully springed" sounds weird, but I would immediately understand it to mean something that had springs throughout or otherwise had a full complement of springs. Matt Deres (talk) 14:46, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Regardless of the grammar, I think the "fully springed" term refers to the density or "coil number". The more coils per surface area the better the support and wear. μηδείς (talk) 00:21, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
I understand fully-sprung mattress to be like sprung dance-floor (which doesn't even have discrete springs) - something like 'made springy'. --ColinFine (talk) 12:11, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Ancient greek[edit]

What is the Ancient Greek for feathered?-- (talk) 09:58, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

I'd suggest πτερωτός ([1]), which is e.g. used by Herodotus: "Their wings are not feathered [Greek πτερωτὰ, the neuter plural form of πτερωτός] but very like the wings of a bat." Histories, book II, chapter 76 - Lindert (talk) 10:30, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
but πτερωτός is feathered or winged or both ones?-- (talk) 14:10, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
(ec)Or "winged", as in the root of the names used for Pterosaurs.
The term "winged" might have implied "feathered". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:12, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes, "πτερωτός" can also be translated as "winged", depending on the context, like πτερόν (or modern Greek φτερό) can mean both "feather" and "wing". It's actually common that a word in one language lacks an exact equivalent in another. I cannot find anything closer to English "feathered". It's clear however, that "πτερωτός" does mean "feathered" in some contexts, and people translate it as such, e.g. in the Herodotus quote, or this one from Plutarch: "And yet we see that they who hunt wild beasts clothe themselves with their hairy skins; and fowlers make use of feathered [πτερωτοῖς] jerkins;" ([2]). - Lindert (talk) 20:00, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

"Don't Know They're Born"[edit]

I've used a phrase up above as a jokey reply to Jack's jokey reply to a comment I had made. The phrase is in the title here. This got me thinking. Where does this come from? It's generally used by older people talking about younger people, and how the older people perceive that the younger people have life easier than the older people did. Does it mean something like, "They haven't lived a REAL life yet" or something? KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 21:36, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

A quick search indicates it was first used by Eden Phillpotts in his 1912 novel The Forest on the Hill (where one of his characters uses it to refer to the rich, rather than the "young people today" of the modern idiom). I would interpret it along the lines of "If we compare our lives to theirs, they do as little work/suffer as little discomfort/have as few responsibilities as an unborn baby." Tevildo (talk) 23:16, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
I've heard it from a fifty-ish guy, referring to his twenty-ish son. Something like "He doesn't think he can die, but he doesn't even know he was born." Couldn't appreciate the value of life itself in the light of the here and now, I took it. Just nodded, didn't ask.
Both still alive, not sure if the son knows he was born yet. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:38, February 26, 2015 (UTC)
As for the referenceable and British, this backs up the "had it easy without realizing it" meaning. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:43, February 26, 2015 (UTC)
The version I've most often heard is "He doesn't know he's alive". -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 06:54, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

February 26[edit]

Cerdeña and Córcega[edit]

Does anyone know why the names for Sardinia and Corsica underwent a shift from /s/ to /θ/ in Spanish? --Lazar Taxon (talk) 11:42, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Anything to do with the Castillian lisp? {The poster formerly known as} (talk) 14:09, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
It seems like the answer requires a little more than just a reference to the rise of the dental fricative in Spanish. Typically, the Spanish soft c (pronounced as /θ/ in Northern Spain) derives from Latin words with C (that is, a hard /k/). As is explained at the Wiktionary entries for Sardinia and Corsica, the names come from Latin with /s/ (spelled s). In other words, this is strange because it's common for sounds to go k > θ in Spanish, but not k > s > θ. The important changes leading up to the Spanish pronunciation with /θ/ might have preceded the 16th century. — Ƶ§œš¹ [lɛts b̥iː pʰəˈlaɪˀt] 17:58, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
This is speculative, but this has to have a complex history. This is not the normal phonological development from Vulgar Latin. My guess is that Castilian was isolated from the Mediterranean during the early years of the Muslim conquest, and the native names for those two islands might have fallen out of use in the language, since there would have been no contact with them. Later, Castilians may have picked up the spoken names of the islands from a Romance language, such as Catalan, where "c" before "e" or "i" was already pronounced [s], without knowing how the names of the islands were written. Given that the sequence [se] (spelled either "se" or "ce") in Catalan was at the time often pronounced (in words spelled "ce") [s̪e] in Castilian, those Castilians might have assumed that the syllables should be pronounced [s̪e] in their language and spread that pronunciation in the Castilian-speaking region. In Castilian, [s̪e] later became [θe]. See History of the Spanish language. Marco polo (talk) 18:30, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Looking at Sardinia#Medieval history, these two islands were linked as the Kingdom of Sardinia and Corsica and the crown "given" to the Kingdom of Aragon. Marco may be on the right track here as it seems the two names probably developed in medieval Aragonese and/or Catalan and then were adapted at some point into Castilian based on those pronunciations, instead of from the Latin or Italian.--William Thweatt TalkContribs 02:11, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Hector and hectoring[edit]

It's not exactly a compliment to call someone hectoring, but Wiktionary says the term comes from the Iliad's Hector, who has been revered as an exemplary figure over many hundreds of years and across cultures. How would his name come to be associated with something petty and negative? --BDD (talk) 15:32, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

According to, "Originally denoting a hero, the [noun] sense later became 'braggart or bully' (applied in the late 17th century to a member of a gang of London youths), hence 'talk to in a bullying way'". In contrast, Etymonline says the verb sense is "in reference to [Hector's] encouragement of his fellow Trojans to keep up the fight". AndrewWTaylor (talk) 20:20, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
The connection, as per the EO link, seems to be that the Greek hero Hector was known for exhorting his comrades into the battle. Sometimes there's a fine line between leadership and bullying. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:25, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Not for Teddy Roosevelt. Clarityfiend (talk) 00:31, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Could also be seen as an example of pejoration (only brushed in the article on semantic change, but see one table with "Some examples" (silly, lewd, villain, ...). ---Sluzzelin talk 00:43, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Thanks all. It would help to see early usages of the word, but I can definitely imagine that it was once used in a more positive sense, started to be used sarcastically, and is now a negative term. --BDD (talk) 14:57, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
You know what happened to Hector in the end though right? I'm pretty sure being dragged naked around the city by horses is a pretty good example of intimidation/bullying. Hector#Duel_with_Achilles says "For the next twelve days, Achilles mistreats the body".
My point is, what happened to Hector could have also influenced usage. SemanticMantis (talk) 15:53, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

February 27[edit]

Identificacion de una sello[edit]

ver sello no. 16

Búsqueda asistencia con la lectura del texto en este sello no. 16. Yo leo: «Serie 5», «SOCIEDAD (...)RAL DE CU(...)NES PROGRESO», «50», «CINCUENTA CENTIMOS». El logotipo fue utilizado por la Asociación General de Electricidad en 1888, ver [3] o [4]. Gracias. -- (talk) 01:16, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

I interpret the question as, "Identification of a postage stamp -- [I need] search help reading text on this stamp number 16. I read: 'Series 5','SOCIEDAD (...) RAL DE CU (...) NES PROGRESO ','50',' FIFTY CENTIMOS [cents]". The logo was used by General Electric Association in 1888, see... Danke, y'all." ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:29, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
I think that first part reads Sociedad General de... then maybe Correos, which would refer to the post office. But I'm not finding anything on Google so far. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:46, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
"Sociedad general de cupones 'Progreso'". [5] --Amble (talk) 08:01, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Makes sense. That would account for the number imprinted on it. It's funny how something can seem exotic until you know what it means. "Denali" sounds rather more exotic than "Mt. McKinley" until you discover that "Denali" means "the really tall one". "Really Tall One National Park". Yup. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:51, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
And here I was sure Denali is a river in Egypt.... μηδείς (talk) 19:13, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Q: Why do Egyptian rivermen turn their backs on reality? A: Because dey're in de Nile. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:26, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Q: Who was that sultry temptress I saw you with down by the river last night? A. The sauce of the Nile. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 23:18, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Gracias -- (talk) 08:17, 27 February 2015 (UTC)


What is the correct pronunciation of the word Orre(from Pokemon)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:C541:CC60:4897:AF86:CD38:DFCF (talk) 02:16, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

All Japanese is pronounced the way it is written, so it would be 'O-rr-e'. Like Spanish 'Olé', but with a trilled 'r' instead of an 'l'. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 11:01, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Does "rr" exist in Japanese? As far as I can tell (e.g. [7]), in Japanese it is オーレ, Ōre. (talk) 15:15, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Really, an Alveolar_trill? I bow to your experience in Japanese. I only watch Anime, but I would say at most it's an Alveolar_flap. The latter article even gives Akira as an example in Japanese. An American could get by with pronouncing ⟨ɹ⟩ (as in 'red', Alveolar_approximant) or even ⟨d⟩ (as in 'dog', Voiced_alveolar_stop) if they can't manage the flap. I think of it as an r that just barely hints at a d, which is easier for me to do if I'm saying the word loudly or quickly. But really, OP should just watch Pokemon and other Anime in Japanese with subtitles, and then they won't have to ask us how to pronounce things ;) SemanticMantis (talk) 15:25, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
A trilled r does exist in some dialects of Japanese. I associate it with yakuza or tough-guy speak, but if this thread is to be believed, those (fictional) yazuka are actually speaking Hiroshima-ben or Ōsaka-ben (much as fictional pirates speak West Country dialects, I suppose). I wouldn't roll an r in Japanese when saying Ōre or anything else—in fact I'd actively avoid it because of the yakuza connection. -- BenRG (talk) 19:22, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
But the alveolar flap is fairly common, right? At least that's what I think I'm hearing when they say "Akira" in the movie Akira, e.g. here [8]. SemanticMantis (talk) 19:42, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
It's definitely common and it sounds right to me in Ōre and Akira, and it may be the standard pronunciation in those words, but Japanese phonology#Consonants makes it seem so complicated that I'm not sure. -- BenRG (talk) 20:55, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Watching anime wouldn' t help me in this case, since Orre is only mentioned in two video games with no voice actors(unless you count the Pokemon).I'm the OP. Ohyeahstormtroopers6 (talk) 15:43, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I just saw that on Bulbapedia [9]... They also say that the name is a pun on the English word "ore" which is pronounced just like "or." So that might have influenced the spelling and pronunciation. Still, based on what I know, I'd say /Oh-reh/ or /Oh-deh/, unless you can do the flap, then say /Oh-ɾeh/. But since this is a made up name in Japanese influenced by English, I'm pretty sure people will say it many different ways. So you could try asking at Bulbapedia or other Pokemon sites. Even if they don't know Japanese or IPA they might be able to tell you how they commonly say it or hear it. SemanticMantis (talk) 15:48, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
It is true that the trilled 'r' does not exist in Japanese, but you must understand that Pokemon are meant to sound exotic. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 16:12, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
The Japanese Pokemon names generally don't seem as exotic-sounding as the English names. Many of them are obviously Japanese (Pikachū, Fushigidane, Hitokage, Zenigame). Although オーレ does sound foreign, it seems unlikely to me that it was meant to be pronounced with a rolled r. The "Orre" spelling was probably picked by English-speaking localizers, just like the English Pokemon names. -- BenRG (talk) 19:22, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Gemination (doubling) of consonants does occur in Japanese, see Japanese_phonology#Gemination which helpfully neglects specifically mentioning /r/ but does say any consonant from a foreign language borrowing can be geminated, even if it is not geminated in the lending language, and even if it is voiced, which is forbidden in native Japanese words. Trilling and gemination are not excatly the same thing, but more like far-reaching in, say, rhotic Scottish English. μηδείς (talk) 19:11, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
I don't think r is ever doubled in this way. If it were it would be written オッレ rather than オーレ. -- BenRG (talk) 19:22, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes, 'r' is never geminated in Japanese. It may be, as said above, that the (probably American or Japanese) localizer has used the double 'r' to demonstrate the usual 'flapped r' of Japanese, not knowing that this sound is actually standard British English anyway. But hey, we didn't create this language.... Oh, no, hang on.... :) However, perhaps the localizer used the first 'r' to show length of the previous 'o' vowel, which is normal in non-rhotic dialects. I can understand the OP's dilemma, though, as 'Orre' as it stands would be pronounced in English as 'or' in both rhotic and non-rhotic dialects. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 19:50, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Arabic transcription request[edit]

What is the Arabic text in I want to put the Arabic in Lycée Charles de Gaulle (Syria). Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 17:28, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

المدرسة الفرنسیة فی دمشق شارل دیغول Omidinist (talk) 19:18, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Thank you! WhisperToMe (talk) 23:30, 27 February 2015 (UTC)


"Publically" seems to be gaining ground over "publicly". I'm seeing it more and more often, even written by people I hitherto respected.

Now, I thought the rule was that if an -ically word exists, then the corresponding -ical word must also exist.

  • mathematics --> mathematical --> mathematically
  • nautical --> nautically
  • magic --> magical --> magically
  • logic --> logical --> logically
  • physical --> physically
  • chemical --> chemically


  • phonic --> phonicly (there being no "phonical")
  • sonic --> sonicly (there being no "sonical")
  • public --> publicly (there being no "publical")


  • history --> historic --> historically (because the word "historical" also exists, and that is used as the base of the adverb)
  • hysteria --> hysteric(s) --> hysterically (ditto)

Is this rule watertight? If not, what is the rule? Or is there even a hard-and-fast rule at all? Do we just have to remember which words are -icly and which are -ically? -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 22:49, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

See Wikipedia talk:AutoWikiBrowser/Typos/Archive 3#Misspelling of "publicly". (June and July 2013).
Wavelength (talk) 22:56, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Be careful what you wish for, because sometimes you get it. Here is a 365-page treatment on the topic. You wanted a reference, you got it. --Jayron32 22:59, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
See Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Spelling#Misspelling of "publicly" (June and July 2013) (version of 16:29, 15 January 2015).
Wavelength (talk) 23:03, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
EO dates "publicly" to the 1580s and "publically" to 1812 or earlier,[10] with the amusing note that a lot of words ending in "cally" are pronounced as if they were spelled "cly". Presumably it's easier to get one word's spelling changed than all the others. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:06, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
See "publicly" and "publically" at Google Ngram Viewer.
Wavelength (talk) 23:56, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
See “Publicly” and “publically” | The Stroppy Editor.
Wavelength (talk) 00:05, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Now, that is most enlightening, Wavelength. It puts to shame my "rule" above. Hectically, tragically, archaically, cryptically, idiotically and probably many others, are all formed from the -ic word, and there is no corresponding -ical word (hectical, idiotical ...). I was not aware till now that "publicly" is a unique oddity ... the only adverb ending in –icly formed from an adjective that ends in –ic. Most intriguing. This also means that there are no such words as 'phonicly' and 'sonicly'. (Talk about proceeding from a false premise. I'm obviously in top form today.) -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 01:04, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
There's probably some sort of hypercorrection or related phenomenon going on here. There's an expected ic->ical->ically sequence, and when the "ical" form doesn't exist, there seems to be a hypercorrection (which has become actual proper spelling in many cases) to simply skip it to go ic->ically rather than ic->icly. --Jayron32 01:10, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
The irony being that in almost every case they'd end up with the correct spelling. "Publicly" is apparently the sole exception. But that's very satisying, in the sense that we expect every English rule to have at least one exception, usually many. If there were no exceptions in this case, that would be an exception to the rule that there is always an exception, and that would obviously spell the end of civilisation as we know it. But then, if there always has to be an exception, doesn't that mean .... nah, I ain't goin' there. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 01:25, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Here's a question that just came to me: is -ic treated as an actual morpheme in "public" or is "public" considered a single morpheme. That is, we have situations like history -> historic which demonstrate the morpheme "ic", but for words where "ic" occurs coincidentally, maybe the -ically form is not expected. After all, "public" is a noun where "historic" and "sonic" are not. Maybe that has something to do with it. --Jayron32 02:22, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Magic, music, metric, psychic, logic et al are (or can be) nouns too. They all take -ally and not just -ly. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 03:29, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes, but mage, muse, meter, psycho, logo, are all known morphemes in English. Is there any "publ-" known morphemes that would take an "ic"? --Jayron32 03:49, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
I hope someone comes up with an answer, but my main question is resolved. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 20:31, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

and I thank all who participated. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 20:31, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

I apologize for the late reply, Jack, but this the first opportunity I've had in days to get online. And I figured that you'd like to know:
Publicly is not quite unique. Rather, the Oxford American Dictionary, Third Edition, also lists [politicly] (not to be confused with [politically]).
Apart from that sole exception, however, Wavelength's sources remain perfectly accurate. (Once upon a time, there was also catholicly, but the OED now marks that as obsolete.)
Pine (talk) 00:41, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, Pine. I must now contrive a reason to use 'politicly', not to mention 'impoliticly'. I expect to find many opportunities on these very pages.  :) -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 19:30, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

February 28[edit]

French: What is a 2cl in the French Army?[edit]

Hi. I'm writing an article on the French Army's cycling team. All the riders are soldiers as well as riders, and I'd like to include something about their ranks in the article. This is provided on the team's website but I don't understand the ranks. Sergent-chef, Brigadier and Caporal I can understand, but what are 2cl and 1cl? Thanks. Relentlessly (talk) 11:01, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

They are soldat de deuxième classe and soldat de première classe. See also our subsection on "Militaires du rang - enlisted" on en.wp. ---Sluzzelin talk 11:40, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
They are also mentioned in our wi-i-i-i-ide page on ranks and insignia of NATO armies enlisted, where they are categorized as OR-2 (1re classe) and OR-1 (2e classe) ("OR" stands for "Other Rank", see Ranks and insignia of NATO, and "1" designates the very bottom of the hierarchy). The table on that wide page gives you the corresponding OR-1 and OR-2 ranks in other NATO country's armies (e.g. Reamees and Kapral in Estonia). ---Sluzzelin talk 23:29, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for your help, Sluzzelin. Relentlessly (talk) 13:50, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Sentence filling help[edit]

Imagine, a person is performing satanic activities using telepathy technology, what word(s) shall I use from the brackets?

Sentence is: “Truly they were all performing satanic activities in disguise _________________________________________________________________." (Directly, indirectly, knowingly, unknowingly, intentionally, unintentionally, overtly, covertly, wittily, unwittingly, consciously, subconsciously, in an unconscious mind).

(SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 18:14, 28 February 2015 (UTC))

Well, half of the choices imply that the people know their activities are Satanic, and half of them imply that the people don't know this. You'll need to decide which meaning you intend before we can help. I would also recommend putting the word from the brackets between "all" and "performing", rather than at the end of the sentence - for example, "Truly, they were all intentionally/unintentionally performing Satanic activities in disguise." "Disguised Satanic activities" might also be an improvement. Tevildo (talk) 20:55, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
I'd be tempted to say "occultly", since it means both "supernaturally" and "hidden". Of course, not everyone knows of the "hidden" meaning, as in occult blood. StuRat (talk) 21:06, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
This sentence is in many places written indifferently, I can workaround with the examples you both provided. Occultly sound good. Hope the article stated comes into use after study... Thanks friends. -- (SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 19:18, 1 March 2015 (UTC))

Correct sentence choosing help[edit]

How shall I write this?

  1. They also made adult video clips together.
  2. They also made adult porno video clips together.

(SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 18:15, 28 February 2015 (UTC))

"Adult video" is a euphemism for pornography, so the second sentence is redundant. I would either say:
  • "adult video" (if you're trying to make it sound respectable)
  • "porno" (if speaking casually and don't want it to sound respectable)
  • "pornographic video" (if talking formally and don't want it to sound respectable)
StuRat (talk) 19:17, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Bulletin 3, but a little confused with user: words. I'll use both if I possibly can... Thank you! -- (SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 19:18, 1 March 2015 (UTC))
Another alternative, the most neutral I can think of, is "sexually-explicit video". -- (talk) 19:21, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Sounds amazing! Thanks. -- (SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 19:18, 1 March 2015 (UTC))
sexually explicit (I wouldn't hyphenate) is somewhat redundant. I wonder why it's not explicitly sexual. —Tamfang (talk) 23:32, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
I've heard the words before, what you stated goes better though... Thank you. -- (SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 08:33, 2 March 2015 (UTC))
To me, "clips" implies extracts from a longer work, so you can't really "make a clip" in the sense implied by the examples. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 09:54, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
The words meaning did not 'ring the bell' in my head until now that you actually stated. I'll keep it up to the word video. Thank you. -- (SuperGirlsVibrator (talk) 19:18, 1 March 2015 (UTC))

Auld Henrie?[edit]

I can't find any attestations for it, but I am fairly certain that Auld Henrie is another name for the Grim Reaper.

I saw it long ago somewhere used for that purpose, and I saw it again some time later.

Can anyone find any attestations of this? Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 18:20, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

That does ring a tiny bell, and I wonder if Henry is related to the Germans' "Friend Hein" (Freund Hein schleicht ums haus). -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 19:06, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
That's quite possible. Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 23:00, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

"Loin" etymology ?[edit]

In beef, it means the lower back (that's the US English usage, and the British English usage is a bit broader), while with humans it seems to mean the crotch. How did we get these two different meanings ? StuRat (talk) 19:12, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

"How" comes from the etymology, cognate with lumbar and lumbago. The muscle called the tenderloin in American english is equally prized in poultry and hoofed mammals. μηδείς (talk) 22:39, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
Or in Brooklyn, it's what da kids do in school. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:46, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
..."Dat's wat da kits do in skoowle" if you want to be precise. μηδείς (talk) 02:22, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
What is "skoowle" supposed to signify that is different from "school". Are you saying that they say /sku:l/ instead of /skul/? If so, I don't think that they are the only ones that do that. Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 21:18, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
I defer to Medeis' experience and knowledge on all things New Yawk. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:29, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
If you want to go all George Costanza on the accent, it's [skuəl]. Given that's a "long u" phoneme there's no problem transcribing it as /sku:l/ or /skul/, but there is a marked difference between a Brooklyn/Queens accent (which is what BBB was giving) and the rest of the country, including the Bronx and upper Manhattan in how the long /u/ is realized. Except for being rhotic and lacking the bath-trap split educated Manhattanites, including Harlem residents, sound quite like RP speakers. This is all my own OR, so feel free to disregard it. μηδείς (talk) 23:38, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
I can't figure out what you mean by the schwa in [skuəl]. How do you distinguish the schwa from a syllabic /l/? In my mix-of-a-whole-bunch-of-things-but-mostly-California accent, the /l/ in "school" is almost syllabic. How should I understand George's "school" to be different? --Trovatore (talk) 16:25, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Californian English is not the most conservative form of English (it is quite nearly the very opposite). It is often hard to explain things like this in a way that would be sufficient for understanding to speakers of such a dialect. I suppose I would say that /l/ is not generally syllabic, so... just think of a non-syllabic /l/. If you can't do that then I don't know what to say. Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 22:28, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
I think the use to mean "crotch" is really just a metaphor or euphemism to refer to that area down below, you know what I mean, I don't have to spell it out for you". And loin is used to mean "loin" in humans as well, as in "gird your loins". Iapetus (talk) 14:44, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
I suppose it's similar to how somebody with diarrhea might say they have "an upset stomach" rather than "an upset colon". StuRat (talk) 22:55, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Also. the American phrase 'fanny pack', referring to the little bag you strap onto your waist to carry money, passport, etc., means absolutely something different in England. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 11:57, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Fanny means "butt" in American English, which is geographically not that far from the British meaning. Also, compare "ass" in standard American English (meaning "butt") and the phrase tap that ass in AAVE. The meaning overlaps in terms between behinds and female genitalia. --Jayron32 12:10, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
'Geographically'? What a lovely euphemism for 'anatomically'. I think I shall use that from now on, as I explore where no man has gone before. 'Ass' just means 'donkey' in Br.Eng. 'Butt' is the filter for a cigarette. We are disunited by a common language. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 12:48, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

March 1[edit]

More than one Brazilian real[edit]

The Brazilian real (old) was pluralised as "reis" (article says "réis", but File:Brazil 500 Mil Reis Banknote of 1931.jpg depicts it as "reis"), while the Brazilian real (new) and File:Newreal.jpeg both say that the current currency is pluralised as "reais". What's the reason for the difference? Nyttend (talk) 19:35, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm not certain about this, but the historic currency unit was the real, which translates into English as "royal". It had the irregular plural reis. The word real in Portuguese is a homonym. There is the name for a currency, and there is also the adjective that translates into English a s "real". This has the regular plural form reais. I believe that the name of the modern Brazilian currency, which was introduced as part of a campaign to stop rampant inflation, is a double entendre. One the one hand, it borrows the name of a historic currency. On the other hand, it is meant to have "real" value, unlike previous currencies whose value dwindled over time. It was an outgrowth of the unidade real de valor. Because of the emphasis on the reality of the new real, its plural followed the model of the adjective meaning "real" in English rather than that of the historic currency. Marco polo (talk) 02:07, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

German-English translation[edit]

How do I convert an article based in Germany (German) to English?

Ciwa Griffith is the subject. She was my mentor. I am an American who speaks English — Preceding unsigned comment added by Man from Bear River (talkcontribs) 23:48, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

If you do not speak any German, then one way to do it is to use several machine translators such as to roughly translate it. However, these translators do not usually give good enough English for use directly in Wikipedia. You should then manually create the article itself - checking the results of several of the translators for each paragraph to avoid including any errors from a single translation utility. Finally, you should mark the article with {{cleanup-translation}}, so that someone can later come round and clean up any mistranslations. Once you have created the article, I suggest coming back a day-or-so later, and trying to improve the flow of the English version (without referencing the original). Bluap (talk) 00:05, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
I find that by the time I do all that it would usually have been easier to just write an article in scratch from English sources that I do understand. But if the subject is obscure with few sources outside their native language, it may be the only way. You could also look around English Wikipedia for a German speaker who could help you. Rmhermen (talk) 18:16, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

March 2[edit]

An error?[edit]

I'm the co-owner of a small business, that sells replacement parts for brass instruments. We are currently in the process of getting a new homepage for costumers from overseas. We hired translators on an internet marketplace and we can't really tell if they are useful. We were warned that there are scammers which will just put a text through Google Translate so we want to make sure that the people we hire actually speak both English and the language that they are supposed to translate our text to. One of them writes in their application: "I am a native German speaker. I have been working as a translator and writer since 2012. As a translator, I specialize in academic literature. As a writer, I have written product descriptions for webshops as well as contributions for magazines and papers." If this guy made an error on his application, we would get someone to check the text he translated but we have to pay him tomorrow. --EdthaysIII78 (talk) 02:36, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Are you asking whether there are any errors in the English text "I am a native German speaker ..."? If so, the answer is no. (talk) 03:21, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
I see no errors in the quoted text from the applicant. Btw, did you mean "costumers", or "customers"? -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 03:28, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

German comments on film editing[edit]

[11] This is the post-Oscar press availability for Citizenfour, a movie that was edited in Germany to avoid interference by the US Government. At 2:19 in the video, a German reporter asks about this and co-producer Dirk Wilutzky answers in German. Could someone summarize what he says? Thanks. (talk) 06:58, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Here is a quick summary of what he says.

"It was necessary to edit the film in Germany because of the favorable laws that better protect journalists and documentary filmmakers than it is the case in the USA for excample. For us in Germany, it is a beautiful thing to see this film awarded with an Oscar, of course. The film is in 70 movie theaters in Germany now and will open in even more soon, hopefully. Also, we have the film starting in 30-40 more countries very soon. So getting this recognition here is a big thing, and we are grateful for it." (talk) 08:49, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! (talk) 18:33, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Which is the preferred form of the abbreviation "with respect to"?[edit]

I have seen many forms used on the web:

  • I am writing wrt. your application...
  • I am writing wrt your application...
  • I am writing w.r.t. your application...
  • I am writing WRT your application...
  • I am writing WRT. your application...
  • I am writing W.R.T your application...

The first form is similar to the way I would use "etc." having being taught this at school some decades ago. On the other hand the fourth (WRT) is similar to the way I would use technical and organisational abbreviations (as in "The BBC provides content and my ISP delivers it"), which makes me think that this might be the modern way of punctuation. So my questions are: are any of the above incorrect? Of the correct options which are the preferred? Does the preference change between traditional, modern, formal, or informal contexts? -- Q Chris (talk) 09:47, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

The second and third are both acceptable, although I have a preference for the third. The others are incorrect. But if (as it seems) this is in the context of an employer writing to a job applicant, the employer should not use the abbreviation at all, not even in an email. He/she should write the phrase out in full. By the way, it could also stand for "with regard to". --Viennese Waltz 10:31, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
I think the third is fine provided you leave extra space between sentences. The old typewriter style was to leave two spaces after a period when it ends a sentence, but only one when it indicated an abbreviation. With proportional fonts greater subtlety is possible (you can leave a "wide space" or a regular space plus a "thin space"). TeX handles this well.
Unfortunately the recent trend is to leave no extra space at all between sentences. This is obviously a sign of grave moral decay, and you kids get off my lawn. But here we see one of the real problems with it, which is that it makes the reader do extra work to decide whether a sentence has finished, especially if abbreviations with periods are used. --Trovatore (talk) 15:02, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Hear, hear! —Tamfang (talk) 08:13, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
FWIW, Wiktionary gives WRT as primary, with w.r.t., w/r/t, and wrt as alternatives. The Chicago Manual of Style website has this page (PDF format) showing only wrt for use in "informal notation". So, like many things regarding usage, there does not appear to be a large degree of consensus. I personally would never capitalize this outside of an Internet shorthand context, like FWIW and BTW and LOL. Your examples appear to be part of a formal letter, which would suggest spelling it out. (BTW, it's not similar to etc., since etc. is not an initialism but rather a combined abbreviation of two Latin words. Thus, examples 1 and 5 would never be correct.) ―Mandruss  10:55, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

"Wouldn't re be appropriate? The meaning is the same. Mingmingla (talk) 15:58, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

In an informal context "re" is okay (though you'll confuse a lot of people who wrongly think that even in the middle of a sentence it needs to be followed by a colon, the way it would be in the heading of a memo or email). But as soon as you say "I am writing", you're establishing a more formal style. Which means that neither "re" nor any version of "wrt" is appropriate. It needs to be written out in full. In an informal style you might just say "Re your application" without other words. -- (talk) 16:32, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Regarding or in re (which is the actual Latin phrase, and not an abbreviation) are short formal correct alternatives. μηδείς (talk) 17:30, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

  • OED has an entry for "w.r.t.", and personally I have often seen it in that, and in the "wrt" form, and never in any of the other forms you listed (am tempted to add a [citation needed] tag for the wikitionary entry). Incidentally, as the OED examples attest, the abbreviation is very commonly used in mathematical/technical writing and is often not regarded as informal in those contexts. Abecedare (talk) 17:42, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Grammar of "Do you think me handsome?"[edit]

The sentence sounds wrong. A reply would be I do not think you [are] handsome. However, what dialect in England would allow such sentence construction and omit the are? (talk) 18:50, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

If anything is elided in the question, it's an infinitive -- "Do you think me to be handsome?" See Accusative and infinitive and Small clause... AnonMoos (talk) 19:15, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Jane Austen and Anthony Trollope used the "I think him <adjective>" construction, so I assume it was common parlance back then. But it sounds very dated now. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 19:25, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Yes, very old-fashioned sounding. Yet "Do you find me handsome" would still work. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:13, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm from the North of England, and it has never been a question that I have had to ask to a lady, as it was perfectly obvious that I am handsome without ever having to ask, but I would agree that it is archaic. The reply given by User:66 would appear erroneous without the 'are'. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 21:18, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
M'yes, many people in the States would probably consider that something (notice I left out to be) something from Shakespearean Early Modern English. So it would sound weird in serious discussion, but be perfectly acceptable in humourous use. Though I still dispute Kage-senpai's first point as even though he claims not to be a Scouser (except when scousing is required), and the accent would work on just about anyone outside of Britain, I do not know about women in London as they would be terrified meeting someone from the icey North (where temperature have been known to reach an incredible 0° C!) and this may be the reason for not posing the question. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 11 Adar 5775 21:37, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Mate, a scouse accent gets any girl's juices flowing. Werks evry taaime, lar! :) Anyway, I don't claim not to be a scouser. I am one. I just don't speak like one. I left the city at age 18. Do you know why? It's because I found the train station. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 01:21, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
It's a bit dated, but I wouldn't bat an eye if it were to be used. Tharthandorf Aquanashi (talk) 22:23, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
That's pretty impossible anyway. Eye lids are battable, eyes themselves not so much.  :) -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 05:49, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Not when I'm around, mate :) KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 11:21, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm a Brit. I use this construction myself (though not often) and certainly wouldn't bat an eyelid were someone else to use it. AlexTiefling (talk) 22:28, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Would you mind not speaking ill of people's good faith contributions, please? We all have logs in our eyes. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 01:44, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
I don't see any failure to assume good faith. ―Mandruss  08:47, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
That wasn't what I said. The contributions were made in good faith, but the description of them as "dross" was what was unwelcome. -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 09:43, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
I see. So "off-topic" would have been acceptable? Just trying to clarify. ―Mandruss  09:47, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Pronunciation of "Thornhagh"[edit]

Hi, just wondering how Thornhagh Gurdon's first name is pronounced: THOR-nə(r)? If someone can provide the IPA for his first and last name, I'll add it to the article. — SMUconlaw (talk) 05:51, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Etymologically it is from haugh. How the bearer actually pronounced nobody knows.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 14:21, 3 March 2015 (UTC)


Latin has a long list of verbs like produce, induce, seduce, deduce, adduce; they're similarly abundant in Sanskrit and Russian; scarce in the native English lexicon (driven out by the Normans?) but we have a similar phenom in the phrasal verbs: take on, take over, take out, take up. I don't think I've found anything at all similar in my limited studies of non-IE languages; it makes me wonder a bit what other ways there are to build up the repertoire of verbs from a limited stock of roots.

Do you know a non-IE language that has clusters of verbs related in some analogous way? —Tamfang (talk) 08:25, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Japanese does. 'kakigaeru' comes from 'kaku' ('to write') and 'kaeru' ('to change'), and means 'to overwrite'. 'Tachiagaru' ('to stand up') comes from 'tatsu' ('to stand') and 'agaru' ('to rise up'). The list is endless. These however do not include a preposition, but are rather just combinations of verbs. The Japanese version of a preposition would not actually be added to the verb itself, unlike in your English examples. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 11:18, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Name of a film for teaching English[edit]

Hi, everyone. I'm looking for the name of an old (late 1980s or early 1990s) film used to teach English as a foreign language. The plot of the film was an alien girl called Io (not sure if it's written like this) crash-landing on Earth and enlisting the help of an English boy and girl to find three keys (bronze, silver, gold), a sword and a lamp so she can return to her planet. In the process, a gang of three aliens clad in black known as the Neutrons (once again, not sure whether it's written like this in the film) try to foil her plans. Animated segments with bits of English grammar and vocabulary are shown interspersed with the action.

A Google search of "keys", "sword" and "lamp" only seems to yield sites about RPGs. I hope someone here's seen or used the film and can tell me what its name was. Thanks! --Leptictidium (mt) 09:47, 3 March 2015 (UTC)


I used to work in a place called Rochdale, and there was a road called Greenhalgh Road that I used to have to go down by taxi on my way to work. I asked the taxi driver how it was pronounced, and he said something like 'Green-luh', which I thought was wrong because of its spelling. Now, in my village, there is a little shop called "Greenhalgh's", so this got me thinking. How IS it pronounced? I don't want to go into the shop just to ask this question and not buy anything. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 12:05, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Our dab page for the surname includes, in the first line, five pronunciation variants. I guess the pronunciation of the shop's name depends on how the name is pronounced by the owner (or was pronounced by the founder). Deor (talk) 12:14, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Remember last year? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:22, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Bizarrely, I actually don't. Maybe I was sick or something. Thanks for that link, anyway. It seems that there are lots of variations on this word's pronunciation. Looks like I have to go and ask the staff in the shop, buying a pint of bread in the process. Cheers. KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 12:37, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Loaf of milk, surely? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:45, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
One or the other... :) KägeTorä - () (Chin Wag) 13:40, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Term for describing a specific annoying behavior?[edit]

Is there a word for playing tricks on people that some people may find disruptive or annoying? On the Internet, it's called "trolling". In the 1990s, there was "prank calling". Is there a term to describe a person who annoys others, intentionally or unintentionally? (talk) 15:08, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

In the UK I think it's "politician". Martinevans123 (talk) 15:14, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
What time period is this? Is this pre-Internet? (talk) 15:17, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Time immemorial? Please forgive my sarcasm. (At least four months in advance of a General Election but often extends way beyond that!) Martinevans123 (talk) 15:22, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
"Trickster"? If unintentional, "douchebag"? InedibleHulk (talk) 15:24, March 3, 2015 (UTC)
Could be prankster, but as with trickster, this implies deliberate action. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:28, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
This picture of Coyote captures his inadvertent douchebag side well, I find. InedibleHulk (talk) 15:38, March 3, 2015 (UTC)

So, there really isn't a single term for face-to-face "trolling" in pre-Internet days? (talk) 15:32, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

"Screwing with" people. InedibleHulk (talk) 15:35, March 3, 2015 (UTC)
"Practical joker", or its synonyms may come close, although a bit more coy than "troll". Roget offers - sickener, bore, botherer, potherer, scorpion, tormentor. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:40, 3 March 2015 (UTC)