Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2010 September 15

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September 15

Miss-use of the name "bachelor" for venezuelan engineers

Hello,

I was reading an article regarding the Bachelor Degrees. Venezuela is listed in the article under 5 year Bachelor.

I obtained my degree in Venezuela, and it is a Engineering Degree. This degree includes 2,5years of basic engineering subject followed by specialization topics (let's say specialization in Mechanics or in Chemistry) and with ending with a Thesis project.

I would like to know if there is a way to prove that this degree is equivalent to a MSc. program in Europe.

An example would be that Simon Bolivar University (USB) has an agreement with some universities in Europe and USA to have an exchange program. This exchange program will take place during the last year of education (5th year) and students from USB are accepted as students of the MSc subjects.

Second of all, people with Engineering degrees from Venezuela are accepted in PHD programs in Europe.

And finally, when a engineering degree is obtained the person is qualified to work as an engineer. No specialization is necessary because the Engineering degree already complies with that.

I think that is a miss-conception of what is an Engineering Degree in Venezuela. I think we are wrongly named bachelors.

I also found another article in Wikipedia stating: "the engineer degree is ranked at the same academic level as a master's degree"

Is there a way to confirm/validate this information? It is very important that Venezuelan engineers are recognized as such, especially now that there are so many working abroad.

Regards, Maria —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marianto6 (talk • contribs) 07:18, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

The way to confirm information in Wikipedia is to check the references. If there are no references, the material is not reliable. A bachelor degree is the lowest (no judgement) level of degree in a particular educational system. In most countries that I am aware of, a B.Eng is perfectly acceptable for beginning professional work as an engineer. It is also possible to move directly from a bachelor degree to PhD study; to become a PhD candidate one must only show ability, aptitude, and original research. It is incredibly rare, but not unheard of (as far as I know), to become a PhD candidate without any formal qualifications; a PhD is a matter of process and not achieved degrees, in theory. However... there is no absolute worldwide assessment of "X knowledge and learning leads to a B degree, Y is an M degree, Z is a PhD degree. So qualifications will vary. → ROUX ₪ 08:11, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Another consideration is whether the first years are equivalent to high school in other countries. Or wheter half the course is learning English rather than Engineering. Roux is correct B.Eng is what counts. In my country a M.Eng does not qualify you to be an engineer at all, you need the B.Eng qual (in case you did a B.A or B.SC and then an M.Eng it does not count). Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:31, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Not sure what the situation in Europe is, but in the U.S. most people cannot start working as a professional engineer (regardless of whether they have a Bachelors, Masters, or PhD) if they have not taken and passed the Principles and Practice of Engineering Exam, or PE exam. It's roughly the engineering equivalent of the Bar exam for lawyers, and is mega important. Does something similar exist in Europe? --Jayron32 03:52, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

The UK has the Chartered Engineer which has a rough functional equivalence to a North American P.Eng., but with different qualification requirements. (See Chartered Engineer (UK)#International equivalence, Washington Accord.) Engineers working in much of the EU may also apply for a European Engineer (Eur Ing, EUR ING) title; it may be granted after an engineer receives whatever national qualification he requires, and is recognized across several European countries. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 12:58, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Picture

What computers are these children holding in this picture? Chevymontecarlo - alt 17:56, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

They appear to be OLPC XO-1 laptops (or similar) from the One Laptop per Child program. --Onorem♠Dil 18:02, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Excellent! Thanks :) Chevymontecarlo - alt 18:30, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

George Michael.

Poor guy, he certainly has his demons. And such a talented performer too. Shame - really - I feel for him and hope his sojourn at Her Majesty's Pleasure helps him come to terms with his past "indiscretions". Question? Will his recent UK conviction and imprisonment for driving his car into a shop window whilst under the influence of, and whilst in possession of, cannabis, together with his previous encounters with the law, both in the USA and the UK, prevent him from travelling to the USA, whether as a private citizen or as a performer? 92.30.155.86 (talk) 19:27, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

This probably remains to be seen. I feel this is a question which seeks speculation rather than facts. In short, we cannot tell for sure. --Ouro (blah blah) 20:02, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

I take it your talking about moral turpitude. Yes. Just saying that you a subject in drug research enough to get barred from entry if that drug is on the prohibited list. Depends a bit though on if your rich or poor. --Aspro (talk) 21:51, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

• Often, performers at GM's level are given a pass on entry conditions when they are travelling for work as opposed to pleasure. Lesser performers (like a DJ friend of mine who was turned back at the Canadian border over a misdemeanour-level cannabis possession charge) don't get such breaks. → ROUX ₪ 06:14, 16 September 2010 (UTC)