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June 14[edit]

Odd-looking city pigeon[edit]

I've been seeing this attractive and unusual pigeon in Edinburgh, Scotland. It doesn't seem to fit into any of the usual pigeon color morphs, but rather has irregular patterns of reddish, blue-gray, and white. Is there a term for this sort of plumage, and what might the genetics behind it be? 188.74.64.13 (talk) 13:43, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I see quite a few brown pigeons. Genetically probably similar to the Liver (color) seen in horses and dogs. There is are extensive articles at Equine coat color genetics and Dog coat genetics. See also this. Abductive (reasoning) 05:53, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest reading Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species where he discusses how easy it is to create and entirely new species of pigeon and that this can be achieved in as little as three breeding cycles. With the numerous types of pigeons in most modern cities, I would not be surprised if this is a mixture of various species. Having said that, it does not look at all uncommon when compared with those in London. Kind regards. Anton Anton.Brad (talk) 09:26, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nobody was creating new species of pigeons. They are just breeds. Abductive (reasoning) 12:37, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In addition to the natural selection of Darwin, artificial selection exists, where humans breed animals and plants for certain traits. There are people in Scotland who raise pigeons, and it is possible that a pigeon was purposely bred for a particular color variation and then escaped or even was purposely released. --Guy Macon (talk) 11:25, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Purposely released pigeons invariably return to their coop. Abductive (reasoning) 12:37, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Even assuming the absoluteness of that (which I question), certainly domestic pigeons may mate with feral ones before returning, thus passing artificially selected gene patterns into the feral population. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.123.27.125 (talk) 13:47, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's worth remembering that those alleles that people artificially selected for came from natural populations, and therefore individuals in natural populations regularly exhibit color morphs. For example, the profusion of coat colors in dogs all arose from wolves. Wolves come in a range of whites, yellows, browns, grays and blacks. Abductive (reasoning) 20:38, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's worth taking a look at our article Fancy pigeon, and the articles linked therefrom. DuncanHill (talk) 11:32, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

From Feral pigeon: "Feral pigeons are essentially the same size and shape as the original wild rock dove, but often display far greater variation in colour and pattern compared to their wild ancestors... Pigeons' feathers have two types of melanin (pigment) – eumelanin and pheomelanin. A study of melanin in the feathers of both wild rock and domestic pigeons, of different coloration types and known genetic background, measured the concentration, distribution and proportions of eumelanin and pheomelanin and found that gene mutations affecting the distribution, amounts and proportions of pigments accounted for the greater variation of coloration in domesticated birds than in their wild relations. Eumelanin generally causes grey or black colouration, while pheomelanin results in a reddish-brown colour. Other shades of brown may be produced through different combinations and concentrations of the two colours".

Alansplodge (talk) 14:59, 16 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]