Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Gnosticism (2nd nomination)

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The following discussion is an archived proposal of the WikiProject below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the project's talk page (if created) or the WikiProject Council). No further edits should be made to this page.

The resulting WikiProject was not created

Description[edit]

Gnosticism is a coined term by modern scholarly to separate ideology on what was considered heretical/taboo/unusual by ancient religious groups, primarily Christianity. JudeccaXIII (talk) 07:14, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

List of important pages and categories for this proposed group

List of WikiProjects currently on the talk pages of those articles
Please invite these and any other similar groups to join the discussion about this proposal. See Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Directory to find similar WikiProjects.
Why do you want to start a new group, instead of joining one of these existing groups?
I find gnostic related articles neglected the most from other Wikiprojects. This proposal will help seperate and focus more on gnostic related articles rather than relying on already existing Wikiprojects. Also, this proposed project will better categorize and relieve work load from other existing projects. I'm asking for the support/positive consensus to have this proposed project come to life for the sake of improving Wikipedia. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 07:36, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support[edit]

Also, specify whether or not you would join the project.

  1. JudeccaXIII (talk) 07:14, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  2. FiendYT 02:09, 17 February 2016 (UTC) (I would help with content, but I will most likely focus on the community)[reply]
  3. H.dryad (talk) 19:19, 7 March 2016 (UTC) I would like to help.[reply]
  4. John Carter (talk) 16:05, 28 April 2016 (UTC) - My primary ability, such as it is, is probably in review, acquisition of sources, and set-up, probably would join the group[reply]
  5. Avismother (talk) 00:21, 1 March 2017 (UTC) I'd love to join this group.[reply]

Discussion[edit]

  • @JudeccaXIII: I think it would be best to maybe, at least, clarify the intended scope of this group a bit more and maybe, depending on the intended scope, the name. Gnosticism, by and large, refers to a specific group of Christian groups of early history. There are, so far as I can tell, quite a few, more current, groups which largely espouse what might be called gnostic thinking, but so far as I can tell they will generally fall into the field of new religious movements, and there already exists a new religious movements work group which deals with that broad area. One alternative for naming might be "Western esotericism" or "gnosis and western esotericism" similar. I suggest such titles because there actually is at least one very good reference source dealing specifically with that topic area, some details of which can be found here. John Carter (talk) 16:04, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
John Carter Personally, I prefer Christian Gnosticism to articles that are Christian related, but I was referring to Gnosticism in general for this Wikiproject, but not modern religions. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 21:29, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I probably would like a rather more focused group myself, but find that, unfortunately, for whatever reason, a lot of the broadly theosophical type groups and others tend to, whatever there individual "classification," tend to often be based, to at least some degree, on the early Christian gnostics, and on that basis relate to the topic. It is also true, in a lot of cases, that some newer Christian groups tend to in some way almost repeat some of the assertions of the earlier gnostics as well. I think that might be one of the reasons the work uses the term "western" as opposed to "Christian". John Carter (talk) 14:55, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Only when the RSSB source is included will there be any authoritative measure for Gnostic studies. www.rssb.org is the administrative site for the Radha Soami Satsang Beas, the only organization in the world to be headed by a bonafide duly-appointed living mystic ('gnostic') Master. Science of the Soul.org is the publishing arm. All books are published at cost and shipped free.Sahansdal (talk) 17:42, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Also, of course, if @JudeccaXIII: was thinking specifically about articles relating to Christian Gnosticism, or maybe Early Christian gnosticism (although defining "early" might be a problem), that could be done as well. In that instance, it might be best to take the matter to WT:X and ask if there are enough interested people there to start the group as a Christianity related project. Five is generally considered sufficient to start a task force, and we are already most of the way there. Again, though, the definitions of "Christian" and "Gnosticism" would probably have to be worked out in that context, but that tends to be a problem whether there is a separate group or not. Alternately, I suppose, if such were wanted, an "Early Christianity" work group could be instituted, which would cover most of the early Christian gnostics, and their contemporary opponents, and associates, etc. John Carter (talk) 21:47, 12 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@John Carter What about Abrahamic Gnosticism? The title should catch interest to those of other Abrahamic editing backgrounds rather than just Christianity. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 01:34, 28 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The downside of using such a neologism like that one is that it doesn't itself do a very good job of indicating to editors the intended scope of the project. Western Esotericism as it stands includes Gnosticism as a subtopic, which would lend some support to use of that title. The Gnosticism article as it stands does indicate that there exist non-Christian Gnostic tradiitions as well, including the Kabbalah, and I know that there have been at least a few academics who indicate that the Kharijites might be influenced by Gnosticism, so there may not be much reason not to include those topics in the broader "Western Esotericism" field as well (using the term "Western" in the basically "Abrahamic" sense. But I have serious reservations about giving a WikiProject as its name a term which doesn't have, or have a likely potential to have, an article by the same title. John Carter (talk) 15:38, 31 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There is a Dictionary of Gnosticism here which would serve as a good starting point of determining what sort of articles to include etc. I do still have some reservations about limiting it too specifically to just Christian gnosticism though. From what I remember, gnosticism may have started out as a form of Christianity or after Christianity (although I think that is disputed by some) but its influence later spread to other, less specifically Christian ideas like the Kabbalah. Wikipedia:WikiProject Kabbalah seems to me to be at this point more or less inactive, and it might be possible to leave a message there about maybe expanding the project to broader Gnosticism, with maybe a Kabbalah task force or work group, and seeing if there are any objections. If there aren't within a month or two, then the group could reasonably be considered moribund and be eligible for such restructuring. John Carter (talk) 00:13, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the project's talk page (if created) or at the WikiProject Council). No further edits should be made to this page.
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