Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/45th Infantry Division (United States)/Archive 2

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Withdrawn by nominator -MBK₀₀₄ 01:29, 15 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

45th Infantry Division (United States)

First nomination

Nominator(s): —Ed!^(talk)

I am renominating this article for A-Class review. I believe I have satisfiably addressed the issue of sourcing raised in the last review, having added a large number of new book sources. —Ed!^(talk) 15:45, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments
- No problems reported with alt text, dab links, or external links. Well Done!
- Why is Dwight E. Beach listed in the notable commanders section?
  - He is listed as a commanding officer on his article, which is cited. —Ed!^(talk) 06:23, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    - Let me put that another way: In your own words, what makes him a notable commander of the unit?
- I'm going to recommend a copyedit for the article, as some parts read a little choppy, and I think a little tweaking from outside may help fill in the bumps such as they were in the article.
  - I've been having great difficulty finding a copy-editor who isn't busy. Do you know anyone who can help? —Ed!^(talk) 06:23, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Try and get a little more detail in the article about the reduction of US forces between WWII and Korea. I know from R&D work on articles here exactly how deep that black hole was, but more info for the less informed will help them understand how badly prepared the divisions were in 1950. TomStar81 (Talk) 18:45, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - Lifted a section on this topic from another A-class division. How does it look? —Ed!^(talk) 06:23, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments
- I am unable to verify that Mark Clark or Raymond S. McLain ever commanded the 45th ID. Clark was the Fifth Army Commander, and the 45th fell under that Army, but as far as I can tell, Clark never commanded the division itself. McLain was the 45th DivArty Commander, but commanded the 90th Division, not the 45th ID. Please provide a source or remove. (GregJackP (talk) 23:18, 7 February 2010 (UTC))[reply]

McClain was Divarty commander. And I'm just about positive that Clark didn't command it either as it was a National Guard division and he was too senior by the time it was federalized.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 03:33, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I removed those names. They were listed in their respective articles as commanders but were probably unsourced and they no longer state this. —Ed!^(talk) 06:23, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose

I don't believe that this is anywhere near complete enough. The current level of detail is good enough for GA, perhaps, but not enough for anything higher.

There's not enough detail of the state affiliations of its units, particularly of the regiments and divisional battalions in WW2.

Accounts of its operations in combat lack enough detail to show the division's role in each.

The division supposedly became an all-Oklahoma unit in 1946, but the 157th Inf Reg't, a Colorado unit, is listed as being removed from the division in 1950. How is this possible?

I'm surprised that Flint Whitlock's book The Rock of Anzio: From Sicily to Dachau: A History of the U.S. 45th Infantry Division has not been consulted.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 03:33, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's from '98 and looks pretty thorough, but I haven't actually read it.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 09:29, 12 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose

Two histories of the division, the one below I refer to and Flint Whitlock's book (is there a publishing date for that Sturmvogel - be good to see how much studied reflection went into it?) have been mentioned. Both need to be added to further reading at the very least. For A-class really they both need to be consulted and compared to one another (historiography). We're trying to write history here, not just narrative, and this is now possible with a division that was disbanded in 1968. Buckshot06 (talk) 20:29, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

~~Comment~~
- This is much improved. However, have you located a divisional history written covering either World War II or Korea? Usually there was one produced by the veterans' association. Even if you can't get hold of it to add data, it should be listed in further reading. Buckshot06 (talk) 03:15, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - Is there a directory of book information about these? I wouldn't know what to search for. —Ed!^(talk) 06:23, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    - It is not necessary to look very far. It's in your Encyclopaedia of OK History and Culture external link, at the bottom of this page: http://digital.library.okstate.edu/encyclopedia/entries/F/FO050.html. Published by the division itself in 1946. Buckshot06 (talk) 20:23, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In light of these new oppositions, I am going to close the review, make the necessary improvements and renominate again at some point. —Ed!^(talk) 19:45, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.