Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. Roads

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WikiProject U.S. Roads (Rated Project-class)
U.S. Roads WikiProject icon This page is within the scope of the U.S. Roads WikiProject, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to state highways and other major roads in the United States. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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Module:Jctint/USA[edit]

The most recent version of jctint templates for US states did mainly the following:

  • Assign the state name to |region=.
  • Pass through a parameter to Template:Jctint/core.
  • Rename a parameter to a core parameter.
  • Build a string for a _special parameter that shares the same structure across these templates, only to differ in the state name.

The approach above has several drawbacks:

  • A parameter available in the core module not exposed by these templates becomes unavailable. Parameter additions in the core module do not propagate to these templates automatically.
  • A lot of duplicate template code is difficult to maintain.
  • These templates can only diverge from one another over time. Template users will have to memorize multiple usage when the interface for these templates could have been uniform.

For the past few days, I have converted most of these templates to use Module:Jctint/USA to eliminate the drawbacks above. You might not have seen any observable changes to articles, because you shouldn't! I am happy to report that the module now handles jctint templates for 40 out of the lower 48 states.

Before I can go into what prevents the templates for the remaining 8 states from being converted, I need to go into some technical details about how |sub2_special= was implemented for most states.

|location_special= is used by default. Certain templates permitted multiple locations to be specified as |location1= through |location4=. These parameters are concatenated as a list of wikilinks that is passed to the core module as |sub2_special=. Other templates did the same, but with townships instead of locations (see Interstate 70 in Ohio). The module handles both: |sub2param=township is used in the latter case; location is the default.

Now, why the templates for 8 states haven't been converted:

  • State name is not the correct article link (GA and WA): Road data modules should handle this.
  • Different |sub1name= (LA): Road data modules should handle this.
  • Special handling for |indep_city= (CA, CO, and MD): Road data modules should handle this.
  • Cascading |sub2_special= (MN): A list of both townships and locations are permitted, but the module doesn't support cascading yet, though it can easily be done.
  • |town= (WI): It appears that town articles are not named consistently, e.g., Bristol, Dane County, Wisconsin vs Bristol (town), Kenosha County, Wisconsin. So, I could not decide which one to use.

For more details about handling by road data modules, see Template talk:Jcttop/core#sub1name order for an idea, and Module:Road data/strings/USA/NH for an example. This is a longer-term transition, but I would like to avoid adding a boilerplate in the module when this transition is anticipated. See also Template talk:Jct#Inheritance and overriding in road data modules.

During the conversion, I noticed a beginning of divergence in some of the templates. While most states use |mile_ref=, some use |length_ref=. Specifically, templates for AL, FL, OH, OR, and TX. This parameter should be deprecated and renamed to |mile_ref=.

The module opens up other opportunities for uniformly customizing parameters for US junctions, e.g., cascading (above) and support for a list of cities. Additional customizations will not be implemented until there is evidence that they are useful for multiple states.

The templates are still fully backward compatible with the previous version, but the module might have added new features, e.g., list of locations, to some states' templates. These features have already been used in several other states' templates. I hope it is okay for every state's template to have the same leverage.

Of course, if you see any undesirable, observable changes, I will appreciate your report so I can troubleshoot. Constructive comments will also be appreciated. Chinissai (talk) 15:45, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Illinois has a mix of townships and precincts. There is no pattern that I can tell for which county uses which subdivision. –Fredddie 16:45, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Interesting. I didn't see any use of precincts in jctint as a separate parameter, so I was able to convert {{ILint}} without trouble. The module should be able to support future customization for precincts, though, perhaps by using switch tables in road data modules. Chinissai (talk) 17:08, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
California has the funny postmiles stuff - is this properly supported? --Rschen7754 18:20, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
Yes, any "funny" parameters can be overridden by passing them to the module. See Template:ORint for example. It's only San Francisco that prevents me from converting CAint. Chinissai (talk) 18:46, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
On a side note, North Carolina has townships, but most, if not all, of the links don't exist, even as redirects. Charlotte Allison (Morriswa) (talk) 21:08, 17 May 2016 (UTC)


Hello[edit]

Hi everyone I just want to say hello. I am Christopher Thompson. I heard on this website y’all like to talk about the highways in the US. I’m so interested because I know a lot about the highways in the US and where they go in fact I want to be a map maker when I grow up, so I love to know more about the highways. So hi everyone Christopher Thompson (talk) 19:39, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

👍🏾 Christopher Thompson (talk) 19:40, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

Welcome! --Rschen7754 00:31, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
Welcome, @Christopher Thompson:! We always welcome new users to the Project. Charlotte Allison (Morriswa) (talk) 23:27, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Baldwin Beach Express shield[edit]

Can someone add the newly-made shield file File:Baldwin Beach Express.svg to {{Jct}}, so it will show up when called? Thanks. I added the "marker_image" parameter to the Baldwin Beach Express page. Was that correct? Charlotte Allison (Morriswa) (talk) 23:25, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Transcription project[edit]

I'm starting up a transcription project on Wikisource with the current archive of AASHO/AASHTO minutes uploaded to Commons. As each page is transcribed through OCR, it needs to be proofread by a second editor and then validated by a third. Each transcribed page comes together to form a single document.

A group of us worked on File:AASHTO USRN 1985-06-26.pdf at Wikimania and put together Route Numbering Committee Agenda 1985-06-26. The eventual end goal is transcribe the remainder of the minutes and switch {{AASHTO minutes}} to link to the validated transcriptions. (Each document on Wikisource links back to the original PDFs on Commons as well.)

The steps are fairly easy, so if anyone is interested in helping out, just let me know! Imzadi 1979  11:32, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

A unconnected editor started Portal:American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials over on Wikisource to collect all of the documents as well. Imzadi 1979  23:13, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
I've just finished the initial pass transcribing the Report of Joint Board on Interstate Highways October 30, 1925 over on Wikisource. There's some interesting stuff in there, including drawings. Imzadi 1979  15:37, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
I wrote up a detailed set of basic instructions at Wikisource:WikiProject U.S. Roads/Tutorial based on the process I followed to transcribe U.S. Route Numbering Sub-Committee Agenda 1970-11-06. Imzadi 1979  01:18, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Highways#Proposed A-Class Review rule changes[edit]

There have been some proposed changes to the A-Class review process at the discussion above. --Rschen7754 20:47, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Really? (lists)[edit]

WP:DFTT

Just think, you re writing a compendium, not an encyclopedia. An encyclopedia has an overview and synthesis ofa asubject, not just a collection of lists149.254.234.236 (talk) 21:18, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Blanket statements like that are rarely correct all the time. This project and others has lists and articles with varying degree of prose content. --Finlayson (talk) 21:28, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
Less than 3% of content under this project's banner are lists. - Floydian τ ¢ 21:44, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation links on pages tagged by this wikiproject[edit]

Wikipedia has many thousands of wikilinks which point to disambiguation pages. It would be useful to readers if these links directed them to the specific pages of interest, rather than making them search through a list. Members of WikiProject Disambiguation have been working on this and the total number is now below 20,000 for the first time. Some of these links require specialist knowledge of the topics concerned and therefore it would be great if you could help in your area of expertise.

A list of the relevant links on pages which fall within the remit of this wikiproject can be found at http://69.142.160.183/~dispenser/cgi-bin/topic_points.py?banner=WikiProject_U.S._Roads

Please take a few minutes to help make these more useful to our readers.— Rod talk 19:47, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Secondary Virginia state routes[edit]

An editor, @Famartin:, has made pages like Virginia State Route 610, with multiple secondary state routes in Virginia on them. Is this a proper way to do this? Shouldn't they be put on the List of secondary state highways in Virginia page? On User talk:Famartin#Secondary Virginia state routes, I have been discussing it. This editor says that there are "tens of thousands" of secondary state routes in that state. Is this true? If so, could they be put on multiple pages? Charlotte Allison (Morriswa) (talk) 05:46, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

If you review the talk page for the List of secondary state highways in Virginia, you'll see several comments I made in the past regarding the need to break up the page. Yes, there literally are tens of thousands of secondary routes in VA, since VDOT maintains nearly everything outside of cities and towns, and numbered them all. You should review the Byrd Road Act for some background, as well as the VDOT traffic counts to see how many numbers there are and how many are duplicated over and over again in the different counties. In any case, these routes are of the same level as county routes in other states such as New Jersey, so truthfully they only need minor list coverage, not something more descriptive. Famartin (talk) 05:51, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
Maybe split it into just a few? Similar to List of Farm to Market Roads in Texas? --Rschen7754 05:53, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
Assuming the numbers on that page are representative, there are still significantly more SR's in VA than Farm to Market Roads in Texas. I'm really not kidding - route numbers in VA's secondary system go over 10,000. Famartin (talk) 05:58, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
Possibly split them into something like List of secondary state highways in Virginia (600–699) or something to that effect or separate them based on each individual city/county. Charlotte Allison (Morriswa) (talk) 06:01, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
Because the lower SR's, particularly the 600-699 range, are almost all duplicated in every county, that would result in a page with well above 500, likely close to 1,000 entries. For some counties, doing individual lists by counties would also result in some pages with thousands of entries. Just look at Fairfax County. I would be OK with consolidating some of the higher numbers in group pages once they get much less commonly duplicated. I'm not exactly sure at what number that would be, but likely at some number higher SR 1000. Famartin (talk) 06:06, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
Something that hasn't perhaps been realized by everyone here yet, but I probably should mention: Those pages I started aren't done... I've only gone through the counties starting with the letter A. There are dozens of routes that still need to be added to EACH of those pages.Famartin (talk) 06:08, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
Personally, I think Virginia State Route 610 works very well to handle this, and I'd just suggest that the table needs to be formatted along the lines of WP:USRD/STDS in the future. We would probably want to create a variant of {{routelist row}} that displayed the county name instead of the highway marker and name because each row would be redundant in such a table. Imzadi 1979  06:13, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, I appreciate the edits you already made to the pages. Famartin (talk) 06:16, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
You're welcome. If this concept were developed fully, then I think that List of secondary state highways in Virginia should ultimately become just a list of the numbers that have pages, and the inboxes at the tops of these new lists would navigate between them. Imzadi 1979  06:25, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
Yes. I don't want to do that yet of course since there remains material listed there which isn't duplicated yet. Once the first 11 pages are complete (Routes 600-610), I intend to link them to the main secondary route page, and then start 611-620. Famartin (talk) 07:15, 8 December 2017 (UTC)