Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Law Enforcement/Archive 5

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Police officers Duty Belt

Should there been an article on the Duty belt? "Duty Belt" redirects to Belt (clothing) under the section Variants

I have got a good picture of my own duty belt here, make sure you read the summary about that picture!


Dep. Garcia ( Talk | Help Desk | Complaints ) 16:32, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd say the belt article could use beefing up first, as there's only one sentence there on duty belts. Your photo and maybe a more detailed description would help improve that article. If there's too much to say about it in a section there, or if that section seems to overwhelm the article, then it should have it's own. Not even Batman's belt has it's own article (and his holds a Batarang!), but on the other hand, Stable belt has an article. Another option is to add something to Uniforms and equipment of the British police. bobanny 18:15, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't like the way your CS/PAVA is pointing at me in that photograph! I would agree with Bobanny to put a "see Uniforms and equipment of the British police" in the appropriate area of the "belt" article, and put your picture there. There aren't enough pictures in that article as it is, and it's not like we don't have the ability to take the photos... SGGH 19:28, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
Just note that with that photo of the duty belt of mine, it looks like my speedcuffs are on my right side and that my gun is on my left side (not visible) making me seem left handed but infact it is not, the camera i took it with flipped or mirrored the image so everything you looking at is on my left side going right. Batman does have its own article. But also Sam Browne belt which some law enforcement officers wear (with a strap going over their shoulder) has an article. I will play it by ear and tinker around a bit.

By sure to check out my unfinished view on police gear which i started yesterday, i will tell you when i have finished it so you can have a proper read of it! Dep. Garcia ( Talk | Help Desk | Complaints ) 13:09, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

It got prodded! SGGH 17:43, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
I know :-( but I got a piczo website where you can see it, i still need to do loads on it, have a read sometime (it might even save your life oneday ;-)) check it out at Dep. Garcia ( Talk | Help Desk | Complaints ) 19:26, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
Probably will, when a drunk 6 foot seven rugy player comes barreling at me and I snatch up my PNB and try to spray him with it, while my PAVA sits snugly in a different part of my belt and sniggers at me.... when I saw your edit summary I couldn't help thinking "a cunning plan?" SGGH 20:09, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
I have to say the radio wire thing wouldn't have occured to me, but someone would have certainly pointed it out and ensured I run it up the back under my stabbie. Anyway, much of this content could be de-bloggified and put into the uk police equipment article along with that image, do you think the more admin side of things like PNB cases and things be in there, or your needle stop gloves? But then those things are generic to all police forces/military fores I suppose. Certainly put the pic across if you haven't already. Also, they let you have your PAVA at home?!?! SGGH 20:13, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

If I took my CS spray home, god knows what will happen!!! "I was Wearing this while off duty in the station,". I will soon by taking more pictures of my belt, and posting them here and on my piczo advice site. The radio wire does really occure to my either because i have one of those sepura radio which attaches near the shoulder of my vest, (near enough). I have still loads to write in that article of mine on piczo, like boots, gloves, torches, handcuffs & cases, trousers, shirts, keys, rescue knifes all that other junk that sits on our belts. I will "deblog" some of my advice i stick it in some article somewhere. Dep. Garcia ( Talk | Help Desk | Complaints ) 11:21, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


We have a project WP:CRIME, is there any overlapping going on? WooyiTalk, Editor review 16:01, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I dont think there is, check out the Scope of this project to see what articles we handle!
Dep. Garcia ( Talk | Help Desk | Complaints ) 16:10, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
WP Crime tackles crimes and criminals, we tackle law enforcement, police forces, techniques and officers. At least that is how it ought to be but I suspect there is some overlap in places. :) SGGH 18:19, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

All gone

I have cleared the Category:Unassessed Law enforcement articles section out, all by myself!! (see my contributions)

Dep. Garcia ( Talk | Help Desk | Complaints ) 19:53, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Ernest Emerson

I recently delisted the Ernest Emerson FA article from this project because, while he has police connections, his is mainly notable for non-specific-police reasons. However, after discussing it with another user, we should discuss it here, so discuss away! :) SGGH 13:18, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

My thoughts re the removal were:

  • He was never (as far as I could see but I may be being VERY blind) a notable police officer in his own right, and while he was a Police Officer Standards and Training guy, that wasn't was he was particularly notable for.
  • While his products are used by the police forces and some of his tactics are taught to officers, again this is not his main notability, which is as a "ustom knifemaker, martial artist, and edged-weapons authority"

What are your thoughts? SGGH 13:21, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Ernest was never a Police. I hope I wasn't giving that impression. However, Ernest is a POST Instructor, has written numerous POST courses, is a contributing author and editor of American Cop Magazine. He has designed at least 8 knives that I can think of specifically for Police Officers and has written the policy for carry and use of a knife for three departments that I know of. His Combatives Courses are designed specifically for the Police and Military. This isn't a guy who will teach to just anybody who walks in off the street, even before he became famous for his knives he was primarily a police and military instructor.

That article was at one time two seperate articles and I may have trimmed some detail when asked to combine them back on the A-class review. However, I still think there is enough overlap to keep it in scope.Mike Searson 13:40, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Ernest was never a Police. I hope I wasn't giving that impression - don't worry, I knew what you were saying :) SGGH 13:53, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Peer Review

I have given Youth Offending Team a peer review, you can read it here and I have removed it from the bulletin board.


Dep. Garcia ( Talk | Help Desk | Complaints ) 16:24, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Finally! thanks :D SGGH 20:25, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

SGGH's Holiday

SGGH (Project Co-ordinator) will be on holiday from April 18, 2007 until April 23, 2007, so should all queries come to the "next in command" (as they put it) me, Dep. Garcia? I can be called "Acting Project Co-ordinator" Dep. Garcia ( Talk | Help Desk | Complaints ) 21:01, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Splitting it between the three seems more democratic, I don't think there's a chain of command you guys as are "in charge" as I am. Do whatever you think is most efficient for the project I guess :) SGGH 07:40, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Who authorized this "holiday" anyway? (kidding :) bobanny 15:43, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Whoever sees a query first gets to deal with it, "first come, first serve". You could leave like a little message on your talk page saying something like "please field all queries to etc. etc. etc.". But thats upto you. The little "next in command" thing was a joke i didn't mean it really. :-) Regards Dep. Garcia ( Talk | Help Desk | Complaints ) 15:59, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Ah right, fair enough, I'm not fully awake! Regarding authorisation, I'm just chuffed I managed to wrangle it so my during my whole holiday (minus 15 minutes) I'm still being paid. I love Annual Leave! SGGH 20:14, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I thought you were a special constable? I don't get the "minus 15 minutes" bit can you please explain, duh :-) Dep. Garcia ( Talk | Help Desk | Complaints ) 20:36, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't start until September :D I'm working with social services at the moment, and 15 minutes because I had enough annual leave to wangle 3 days worth of paid holiday, minus 15 minutes that I will just have to take as unpaid holiday. You only thought I was a serving special because I come across as clued up, because I'm going to be so damn good at it!! (lol, one day I hope!) SGGH 21:26, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Ah right I see now (i was a bit: "duh" yesterday) but I remember seeing a picture (well half a picture) of you sometime ago with a specials custodian helmet on? And if you convinced me you were special you gonna make a damn good one. Dep. Garcia ( Talk | Help Desk | Complaints ) 11:58, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! I just had the helmet on at the 125th anniversary celebration... (blush) SGGH 11:13, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

William Bennest

I have created this article: all we need to do now is to expand it, keeping it within WP:BLP policies. This one will be hard, because so far there is only one source on the article, and finding other sources is hard.

Please see the talk page of the article. --SunStar Net talk 15:40, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

If you see our scope page, you'll find that our project doesn't cover articles about people arrested for committing crimes (you might want to see WP:CRIME for that) but we'll happily look over the article purely as wikipedia users and make any changes that we think will benefit :) SGGH 15:50, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Thanks for clarifying that. I'll discuss it over there! --SunStar Net talk 15:52, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
I've put some sources on the talk page that might help you SGGH 15:56, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Police notebook

Is there any American officer who can supply information for the above article? Thanks, SGGH speak! 19:37, 5 May 2007 (UTC)


Things have been quiet lately, so I suggesting a new thrust. Starting today, I would like all who are interested to engage themselves in a new thrust to complete the template below!

This way we will build a comprehensive coverage of law enforcement in Europe! Remember that some may already exist in other means, and in that case merely set up a redirect, and make sure that this template it at the base of each one!

Good hunting! Let the work begin! SGGH speak! 19:15, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I have done a bit of work on it, just merely creating redirects Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 15:45, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
Good start :) SGGH speak! 18:31, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
Gotten a stub going for Liechtenstein. Not many sources though SGGH speak! 18:57, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
and now Law enforcement in Canary Islands too! SGGH speak! 19:27, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

When work has finished on this "project", I propose another: Police officers duty belt, creating this article. But thats when Law enforcement in Europe has finished. Is that alright with you SGGH? Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 16:27, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Sure, why not? Done Malta just now. Loads to go! SGGH speak! 17:34, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Yay! Looking forward to it! Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 17:48, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Robbskey has been helping out with this and I feel he deserves an award, but which do you think i should give him, my golden speedcuffs or SGGH's sleek & shiny PNB? Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 19:38, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Lol Dep it's your decision! That's the idea of awards. SGGH speak! 20:01, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Hmm its a tough one but i think i'll go for mine as the PNB is a bit bright on the eyes, if you know what i mean! :-) Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 20:08, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Law enforcement in Kazakhstan done, possibly slightly POV it seems that all the sources say they are rubbish.... SGGH speak! 10:50, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Should these articles be written with British spelling for uniformity since this is about Europe? I don't really know all the differences so you might want to check after me. Robbskey 13:04, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Whichever you want to do, you do it, and if someone aint happy with it, they can change it! "Color" or "Colour" it really dont matter! Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 14:48, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Law enforcement in the Republic of Macedonia done SGGH speak! 16:20, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Dang, that's a good article. Robbskey 16:34, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Yea SGGH is a great editor. Next thing you know that article will be FA! :-) Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 16:55, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, appreciate the praise but I'm still annoyed I couldn't find a source on the force's size, standard info like that. All I could really find was news articles on police brutality and ethnic albanian clashes. Lol SGGH speak! 18:27, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Hardly any redlinks left now, pleasing stuff! SGGH speak! 16:10, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
This has been a good "Forward" project :-) Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 16:34, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Now it's down to some places that would take me a while to find on a map. Robbskey 20:51, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
I doubt you will find sources for them places. Maybe you will but ill doubt it. Good Luck :-) Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 21:00, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
It's funny cause I'll see "Madeira Police" and start reading and a few paragraphs down it'll say "Madeira, Ohio." Dang Buckeyes. Robbskey 21:11, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Red State and proud! :P SGGH speak! 21:15, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Oh, Tennessee here and tight there with em. Robbskey 21:22, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
I think that the Crimea is policed by the Ukrainian police force, so for the moment have redirected the crimean article to the ukrainian one. Hope this is accurate, but change it if it's not! SGGH speak! 21:19, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Also redirected Kosovo to Kosovo Police Service SGGH speak! 21:21, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
I think a lot of these could stand to be redirected. Ex. Azores, that's Portugal right? Robbskey 21:24, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Law enforcement in Bosnia and Herzegovina sorted. That was an interesting one, seems that EUFOR and EUPM are in the process of building it. I couldn't find much information on its actual structure but I got a lot of its devlopment. SGGH speak! 15:41, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Law enforcement in Monaco done! SGGH speak! 22:49, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Law enforcement in Croatia started looking for ref's Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 14:55, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Looks great! Also Law enforcement in Montenegro done, 2 left from the main batch now! SGGH speak! 20:15, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
The Croatia article is better now :-). Somebody changed the "LawinEurope" back to the old "Europe|Law enforcement in" but I changed it back. You may want to look into that. Anyway GMP had a bit of trouble last night in some bars and pubs, but as usual, its nothing we can't handle. Regards Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 07:43, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Law enforcement in Azerbaijan done now, im using this weird applemac rubbish so can barely write anything. Just Serbia to go for the main countries, then those smaller sub-divisions need to be finished. Things are going well good job all :) SGGH speak! 13:03, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Nakhchivan's policing is done by the police of Azerbaina so I redirected and expanded as appropriate, I also found some great crime stats. SGGH speak! 14:02, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Good stuff!! Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 16:35, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Law enforcement in Serbia has been started, and I found that the British bases in Cyprus already had an article, not many left to do now and we have done all of the main countries! God bless the OSCE page. SGGH speak! 15:33, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

From many red links to loads of blue links =) Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 16:33, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

These dependencies and whatnot are tough work, I've started the stubs of a couple and the Abkhazia one I merged info from a few articlles because it seems that the UN are doing it for now. SGGH speak! 19:55, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Wow, you have done alot of work while i was out and about, ill try and find a few sources aswell to help, if i can =) Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 20:02, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Law enforcement in Transnistria, like a couple of the others, is an ugly article made up mostl yof info from existing article because I can't find anything, but at least having created it, it might then start filling up. SGGH speak! 20:28, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
never-the-less its still a good article you have just made =) Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 20:31, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
I guess... should be time to hand out awards to you and Robbskey when this project is completed, you should wear little awards that cite you as veterans of the 2007 European Law push :P SGGH speak! 20:47, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Another one of this ilk, Law enforcement in Nagorno-Karabakh, these things are very complicated and give me a headache, but at least they are started and an expert will be hopefully prompted into looking into it. Two left!! SGGH speak! 21:15, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Yay Veterans, As of 10:27 we have one left, oooooo this is the most exciting moment! =] Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 09:28, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
It's almost the same feeling as going to my first Cowboys game, or maybe for the British here, going to New Wembley for the first time? Robbskey 13:16, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Hmm... how about them Mets, though I should support Yankees while I'm here I'm nearer their stadium than the Mets. Anyway, Law enforcement in Adjara, nice to go out on a nice article! It's all FINISHED!!!!!! SGGH speak! 13:48, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Yay, well done everybody. my eyes hurt because of all the blue links :-) *stop! hammer time* Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 19:15, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

new template

Above is the new template. Now the redirects will still have blacked and bolded wikilinks in the template, for example in the "policing in the united kingdom", "united kingdom" is now blacked out. All the red links on the new template link directly to "Law enforcement in..." and all the blue links link directly to the right articles rather than going through "law enforcement in..." as they may have done before. The above template has also been copied to all existing articles that it links too, and when creating the remainder please remember to use {{LawinEurope}} instead of the old template! Thanks! woof, that was hard work SGGH speak! 18:18, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh, as well as solving the problem of missing black-bolded links (links that go to the page your reading already) this new template also removes the annoying "law enforcement in europe" redlink, and it also made it possible to change "Law enforcement in Azores" to the correct "Law enforcement in the Azores" and so on. Works nicely! SGGH speak! 18:20, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


A new award, for those who are felt by other members of the project to have made good advances into this workload, we shall award:


As a new project prize! SGGH speak! 20:45, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

See the Wikipedia:WikiProject Law Enforcement/Templates and awards page for instructions on how to award, remember the criteria! SGGH speak! 20:51, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Naming conventions concerning ethnic organized crime articles

I thought members of the project might be interested in the current discussion regarding the deletion/renaming of Category:Gangs by ethnicity as well as its related ethnic and historically related street gang categorires which, I assume, will effect naming conventions of general crime-related categories to eliminate ethnicity from criminal and crime-related categories.

Similarly, a related discussion on changing Jewish-American organized crime to a "less offensive and accusatory" title will also effect article naming conventions for similar organized crime related articles such as Talk:African-American organized crime and Talk:Greek-American organized crime.

Also, there has been some discussion on a "collaberation of the week" between WP:CRIME and various crime related WikiProjects and I was curious if WikiProject Law might be interested in participating in such a project ? MadMax 23:22, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

This is Wikiproject Law enforcement if that makes a difference? Articles on criminals and crimes aren't in our scope, we deal with articles on policing and police forces etc. If it still involves us we will take a look :) SGGH speak! 07:45, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I only mention it because some aspects of law enforcement do deal with crime related topics to some extent. As I'm aware that several members are involved in law enforcement themselves, and there are several prominant members such as User:Dep. Garcia who have been involved in the project, they might offer some insight from people who deal with crime on a regular basis. Likewise, a possible collabreative project could focus on, for example, police corruption or articles on undercover federal and police officers. MadMax 14:05, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Ill join in the discussion, since im in both wikiprojects Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 16:05, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Talking of ethnic organized crime: be careful with the Russian mafia. The article is largely misleading for now (including the Bratva term usage), going to rewrite when I find more time.AlexPU 08:31, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

{{Law enforcement stub}}

Where did the above template just appear from? If it is not needed or used shouldn't it be deleted? Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 18:07, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

It was an old version, it isn't use on any talk page, and now it has been obliterated :) SGGH speak! 19:40, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Just incase anyone wants to know: I found that template on Talk:Delaware River Port Authority Police Department when I was checking out the unassessed articles category. But I changed it to the current one and rated it. Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 20:08, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

There is an error. (moved from assessment talk page by SGGH speak! 11:04, 12 May 2007 (UTC))

There is a big error on the subject French municipal police (police municipale), these agents are not only compétens to make apply the local laws ! They can enforce générals laws too, and they can proceed arrestations.User:GardienFL

Welcoming New Users?

Should we welcome new users like WP:MILHIST does, because i feel it makes new users more likely to get involved rather than joining, never doing anything and then removing there name from our member list.

If so, should we create a member welcome like MILHIST does and SUBST it on new users talk pages?

Just an idea.

Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 20:27, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

It's a good idea, but are many people leaving the project? And if they are is it because they didn't get a welcome tag? Not being negative, just throwing some of the possible responses out there :) SGGH speak! 20:42, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I have seen one or two leave now and again, mainly because i have watchlisted the page. Tommorow if it is ok with you SGGH i will make the welcome template and put some vital links in it and make it look really grand! Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 20:47, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Go for it. Of course it's alright with me. Cool stuff! SGGH speak! 20:54, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Here it is (drum roll please):

Welcome Message

Thank you, thank you!! (bow)

Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 15:55, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Great in every single way except must it be so... green? Good job though! :) SGGH speak! 16:20, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I could not think what colour to use, which would make it soft on the eyes, so you can change it if you like! Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 16:33, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
How is that? SGGH speak! 18:29, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Much better, also it does not copy the MILHIST one. I like it!! Dep. Garcia ( Talk + | Help Desk | Complaints ) 14:48, 15 May 2007 (UTC)