Talk:Bachelor of Science
|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Bachelor of Science article.|
|WikiProject Universities||(Rated Start-class)|
|WikiProject Education||(Rated Start-class)|
- 1 New Brunswick
- 2 Redirect
- 3 List of countries
- 4 List of Subjects
- 5 Duration (II)
- 6 Duration (III)
- 7 Abbreviation
- 8 Norway
- 9 Portugal
- 10 Bachelor of Science in Spain
- 11 Not just a two way split with BA
- 12 Request for merging with another article
- 13 Pakistan
- 14 Caltech
- 15 typical completion period
- 16 3 years, 4 years, 5 years
- 17 South Africa
Under four years it says that everywhere in Canada except Quebec is four years. However on the diagram New Brunswick is coloured in blue, indicating 3 years. Can anyone find out what is wrong here? MTessier (talk) 22:07, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
Im not so sure that BS should redirect here. It should probably redirect to a list of articles using the BS abbreviation. It was kind of funny though when i searched BS on google and got Bachelor of Science
List of countries
Don't put a giant list of countries in the intro. Just say "three to five years" or something, and elaborate elsewhere. — Omegatron 06:25, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
List of Subjects
Not at all universal. My university, for example, only awards B.Sc.'s in Biology, Chemistry, Environmental Science, and Physics. The rest of the article acknowledges the difficulty and inconsistency in determining which subjects are "science," so is this list even necessary? MlleDiderot 15:45, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
I agree, I don't think we need this list. It's specific to the USA, and i anyone wants to know whether a subject is considered a science or not, the can look it up in its own page. University websites are a better reference than wikipedia for which universities offer which courses. If there are no objections I will remove at some stage. Mnd999 17:10, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
- You know what. I think I'll just remove it altogether. Right now it claims to be offered in the US, Turkey and Japan. Three almost random countries. Those subjects are offered elsewhere of course, and are not universally offered everywhere either.--Boffob (talk) 06:02, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
A general idea of what a Bachalor of Science consists of really needs be inclueded, this article has so little infomation. Should be included like this - Due to differences in University teachings. A list of the most common subjects are: (126.96.36.199 (talk) 17:47, 8 November 2011 (UTC))
- (Doubleposted in the section on "Caltech" as well) I happened to stumble on what I first thought was an error, namely a B.S. (hehehe) in Journalism from the University of Kansas in the CV of Steve Doocy. However, it turns out Kansas U actually does label its Bachelors in Journalism as Bachelors of Science(!)
- Mojowiha (talk) 18:53, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
Indeed, Spain is indicated as a 3 year BS in the graphic and as 5 year in the text. Correct fact would be the spanish BSc taking three years. The undergrad is called "Ingeniería técnica" and the a MSc would be just "Ingeniería". 01:17, 12 February 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk)
I believe in Hungary the duration of a BSc is actually 3.5 years, so if one aims for a master's they tend to complete the two together in 5.5 years (or 6+ if they have to retake a semester). --184.108.40.206 (talk) 09:57, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
In the UK, the abbreviation of BSc. or BSc is used; there are no dots after the B
This pages definately reflects a USA view point, and not a worldwide one.
This section, by Oivimoen has been discussed thoroughly on the Norwegian Wikipedia, and has been deemed to be pushing of a certain point of view by a single individual, which led to the article no:Bachelor of Science being locked, and the aforementioned user being blocked from editing the Norwegian Wikipedia for a week. A thorough thinking-through should be done as to whether this information truely belongs in this article, as it really is one man's attempt to discredit Norwegian education and exhalt his own, UK Bachelor of science degree.
I will be happy to answer any questions about this, please do not hesitate to ask me. Alternatively, one might ask User:Røed, who is an admin on the Norwegian Wikipedia, and was involved in this process. V85 (talk) 17:40, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for mentioning me. Can you please V85 explain what you say about me: ...as it really is one man's attempt to discredit Norwegian education and exhalt his own, UK Bachelor of science degree. Can you also please explain if this is the way wikipedia shall be used to bring slander about authors adding information requested in the top of the article, i.e more detail and citations. I feel I have given the article more details and citations and hence find it strange that you accuse me of something you do not substantiate. In fact I am taken aback by the words you use characterising me with. --Oivimoen (talk) 20:31, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
- Hi there. I am responding here due to a request made at Editor Requests for Assistance. From what I can tell, most of the information inserted here (in English, at least) is unreferenced. The websites provided don't provide any information on Norwegian degrees themselves. Further, the table provided is totally unintelligible; it's unclear what (if anything) that data is meant to show. I would not include the information here until reliable sources can be found regarding Norwegian B.Sc. degrees. Best, epicAdam(talk) 20:35, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
The heading is international differences. The discussion is differences between Norway and Britain. Is this not international differences????? The references quoted are references to material from the Norwegain governemt and universities in Norway. Do you say that these are not reliable???? Can some editors please expalin why Norway/Britain is not international and why one should not trust the Norwegain government. --Oivimoen (talk) 20:52, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
- One, the first three paragraphs you inserted do not cite any references whatsoever. Two, the materials you did provide say nothing about the differences between Norwegian and British degrees. It's not that the sources aren't reliable, it's just that they don't back up what you are trying to say. If the Norwegian government has published information on the differences between British and Norwegian B.Sc. degrees, please provide it. Best, epicAdam(talk) 21:01, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Dear Sir Epicadam, Please find enclosed citations for the early paragraphs as requested by you in the text extract below.
Please see citation 4 and 5 below for Norwegain government material on the subject requested by you. This citiation has been with the article all the time.
A Bachelor of Science is a 3 year university study in Norway. The use of the title Bachelor is protected by law in Norway giving the candidate an aura of an official seal of approval. This is different from Britain and other countries.Reference?
In addition to this difference in the status of the degree one should note that the content of the education differ between Norway end England. England is here used as the reference as England is the originator of the degree and its name.Reference?
One needs a B.Sc. to start on a research degree as a Ph.D. in Britain and other countries. This reference says nothing about bachelors degrees. However in Norway a Bachelor does not offer sufficient training so a Masteris required to start a research degree. This source also says nothing about the relevance of a bachelor's degree in Norway versus England. It says that a masters is required for this particular program, but also says that they'll accept an "equivalent education", which could be anything. Again, you're pointing at examples and trying to reach a broad conclusion which is not permitted on Wikipedia as it is considered Original Research.
Into this century a British Bachelor of Science with honours (B.Sc. (hons.)) was equalised with the Norwegian title «sivilingeniør» in Norway,  Neither of these two "references" are sources. I have no idea what they are, or where I can find them.. This degree sivilingeniør was equalised to a Master of Science.  Here, again, you can not provides examples to reach a broad conclusion for the same reason above This sources again says nothing about Master's or Bachelor's degrees.
If one compares the numbers of hours a student following the “English” way and the “Norwegian” way one finds that and Englishman receives a Bachelor of Science after in excess of 16 000 hours of study while a Norwegian receives a Master of Science after studying in excess of only 15 000 hour. This is a ridiculous argument. You are trying to reach the conclusion (again, in violation of WP:OR) that because one degree has fewer credit hours that it is not equivalent to the other. This just doesn't make any sense because it we have no idea what the quality of those courses are, their subject matter, etc. As we have said before, you need to provide a Reliable Source that explicitly details the differences between a Norwegian and British B.Sc. degree. Anything less than that is unacceptable here.
|England||years||Weekly hours||Total hours||Norway||45.min lessons||Total hours|
|Secondary||5||24||4560||9-årig compulsary||8769 ||6577|
|Sixth form||2||25||1900||secondary||3366 ||2525|
Lately the Norwegian universities have extended their study by half a year as indicated by the higher end of the quoted hours for Norway. However this has not brought the content of study 80 hours above the lower end of the B.Sc. study. It should also be noted that the name sivilingeniør has disappeared to be replaced by the name Master also to be used as the Norwegian name. So a Norwegian Master does only require 80 hours of study in excess of a British B.Sc. Again, more material that is completely unsourced. A Norwegain Master is also protected by law in Norway.
- I have edited the sample post above to show you exactly what is wrong with it. The information will be removed, again. If you continue to re-add the material as is, you could be blocked in violation of Wikipedia's Three-edit Revert Rule. Best, epicAdam(talk) 15:20, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
We remove the whole article about B.Sc. as it does not contain reliable information, not cited correctly and checkable. It must be in violation of Epicadams interpretation of the rules. OK. Shall I or you remove the whole lot. Or is it so that you apply one set of rules for my contribution and an other for others? --220.127.116.11 (talk) 16:22, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
- All the information present on the page ideally should have inline citations. However, the Wikipedia Policy on Verifiability states, "All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged should be attributed to a reliable, published source using an inline citation." In this case, material you added was challenged by a user, and it is therefore up to you to find the appropriate sources. If you would like to challenge the rest of the information on the page, it is certainly your right to do so. Best, epicAdam(talk) 16:44, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
The duration of a regular Bachelor's degree in Portugal has come down to three years. While this is correct in the text, the image still shows a 4-year duration. Could someone change this? ~ Jotomicron 21:26, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Bachelor of Science in Spain
Please, make no mistake: bachelor degrees in Spain don't last five years (and have never lasted), but three. Five or Six years programs in Spain grant you the so-called Título de Licenciado, which is an equivalent to a Master Degree. The Título de Diplomado, which would be the academic equivalent to a Bachelor's degree, lasts for three years. The main confussion about all this is that in Spain college students don't get a BSc or BA after completing their first three years in college: from the very first moment of chosing their degrees they have to choose either to go for a Licenciatura (MA, MSc,...) degree, which is the most common chose, or for a Diplomatura (BSc, BA,...) degree, which is only offered for certain subjects (Education, minor engineering,...) and does not offer an easy chance to go for a Master's degree after ending the Diplomatura program (allowing this only to the most outstanding students, and only for certain Master Degrees). Both programs are closed, i.e., students don't have a great choice from which to choose their subjects, and must choose from the very beginning their career, without an easy chance to change from their degree to another. Moreover, most academic branches don't offer a Diplomatura: for example, if one wants to study Law or History, the only way to do so would be to study from the very beginning for a Master in Law or a Master in History (Licenciado en Derecho o Licenciado en Historia), both of which are five year programs. All this makes the separation between both titles huge, and people taking a Diplomatura are not usually expected to continue studying afterwards.
Since the Bologna process started in Spain, and as a way to make its educational system understable to the rest of the world, Bachelor Degrees are becoming generalized: people starting college will choose a Grado degree, a four year program after which they will be granted a Título de Grado, which is meant to be the equivalent to a Bachelor's degree. After this four years, they will be able to start a one or two years Master's degree program (Título de Master). It has been stated that all the people holding an old Título de Licenciado shall be granted this Título de Master. Moreover, certain careers such as medicine, law, engineering or achitecture, which nowadays require a licenciado (MSc) academic title in order to become chartered and be able to work as such, will still require to complete the Master's Degree program. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 09:12, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Not just a two way split with BA
There are other degrees as well, which is something to remember when discussing what courses may attract a BSc. For instance here in the UK you can justify the sentiment that a BA in Computer Science would be unusual but that does not make it "almost universally" a BSc - it is quite commonly awarded a BEng instead. CrispMuncher (talk) 07:46, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
Request for merging with another article
The article says the BSc completion period for Pakistan is two years, with the only clarification being 'see above note'. It is unclear what this is a reference to, and since it seems to be an odd exception from the other countries, I think it deserves some elaboration.
At Caltech, any Humanities major - History, Philosophy, History and Philosophy of Science, English, etc. actually yields a BS from the school: http://hss.caltech.edu/humanities/undergrad/core As far as I know, this is unique to most humanities major. Is this notable? Verin (talk) 07:38, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
- Not completely unique: I happened to stumble on what I first thought was an error, namely a B.S. (hehehe) in Journalism from the University of Kansas in the CV of Steve Doocy. However, it turns out Kansas U actually do label its Bachelors in Journalism as Bachelors of Science(!)
typical completion period
The typical completion period in Catalonia and in Spain is 4 years. The map is painted in "5 years" color, wich is incorrect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E35:2F6C:2A0:D69A:20FF:FE6F:97FA (talk) 22:45, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
3 years, 4 years, 5 years
I think it is great that someone had made a map on which the duration of the bachelor education has been indicated but there is not being given any context at all. Why this difference? Difference in pace (maybe Americans work 20 hours a week due to the insane tuition fees?), difference in quantity or both? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 07:57, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
The article states that in South Africa the fourth year is only elective for honours and masters selection. While this may be true of computer science and mathematics, it is not true of engineering, where the typical duration for a BSc in engineering disciplines is four years. Nekuro (talk) 19:35, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
- http://lovdata.no/all/tl-20050401-015-004.html#3-2 and by a number of directives http://lovdata.no/for/sf/sf-20050401-015.html
- Forskrift om godkjenning av utdanning som fagelig jevngod med grad fastsatt etter universitetslovens §49, Fastsatt av kirke-,utdannings- og forskrningdepartementet den 15. juni 1992.
- Rett til bruk av tittelen sivilingeniør, NTH 1993
- as seen by the titles used for example (as a small sample) in these presentations: http://www.aragon.no/public.aspx?pageid=27305, http://www.arcticsilicon.com/company.html, http://www.exprosoft.com/contactus.aspx visited 9.september 2008
- The Norwegian university does also equalise a Master and Sivilingeniør http://www.ntnu.no/studier/opptak/masterprogramiteknologi visited 9.september 2008
- http://www.regjeringen.no/Rpub/NOU/20032003/016/PDFS/NOU200320030016000DDDPDFS.pdf, tabel 13.2
- Quality Assurance Agency for Higher Education. "Higher education credit framework for England: Guidance on academic credit arrangements in higher education in England, visited 9.September 2008-09-09".
- NTNU. "Administrative bestemmelser". Retrieved 2008-09-08.
- NTNU. "Utfyllende regler til reglement av 3. mai 1988/26. april 1991".
- KUF. "NOU 1995: 28 Norges teknisk-naturvitenskapelige universitet (NTNU) - Kap. 6.4.1 Undervisningssamarbeid innenfor NTNU".
- "Studieplan 99-00 (s. 68)".