Talk:Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine

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BetacommandBot (talk) 23:19, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pop culture[edit]

Regarding undoing of revision by 2,3DPG: "Removing content specific to the hospital and not related to the med school. All pop culture reference belong in Cleveland Clinic page and many faculty listed were not involved with med school"

This college of medicine is intrinsically linked to this hospital. Many of the individuals listed have faculty appointments and these individuals were deleted. Historical faculty are frequently considered emeritus at most medical schools while having limited or no involvement whatsoever in medical school activities. This is established and present in nearly every other medical school wiki. Pop culture references referring to the Cleveland Clinic are very logically relevant to the Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine, which is physically located within the hospital and bears its name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TDrum2007 (talk • contribs) 04:57, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. All of the popular culture reference just the Cleveland Clinic, NOT Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine (this article), and belong in the Cleveland Clinic article . Just because the college is physically located at the clinic does not mean the popular culture stuff is related to the college. For example, in the first pop culture bit: "President Barack Obama has praised the Clinic as a model for delivery of cost-effective world-class health care" - Obama did not say the Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine. He said Cleveland Clinic, which is a different entity, and the info belomngs there. And the Robin Williams point. His surgery was done at the Cleveland Clinic, not Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine.
In addition, I will remove the Notable past and present faculty section as well. Not all the faculty on the Cleveland Clinic are at the Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine. There's a faculty list here, and none of the current people listed are faculty. Thanks, SpencerT♦Nominate! 22:58, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Spencer. I agree regarding the culture references. However, the website you referenced isn't a faculty list, it's just a small committee that has maybe 12 people on it on an ancillary webpage. The other individuals are faculty or were professors of medicine/surgery. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TDrum2007 (talk • contribs) 08:27, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a reference for your statement above that "The other individuals are faculty or were professors of medicine/surgery."? And other names are completely wrong and impossible. One of the names listed, George Washington Crile, died in 1943 (CCLCM was founded in 2004), and is most definately not an instructor there. Same with René Favaloro, who died in 2000. Others: F. Mason Sones died in 1985. Irvine Page died in 1991. Simply because they were faculty at the Cleveland Clinic does not mean that they have any relationship to the school, which also was founded after their deaths. I'm also quite sure Michael Roizen does not work with students of CCLCM either. With all of these inconsistancies, I would rather be more inclined to remove the names from the page, unless an outside source clearly links the person to CCLCM, not simply the Cleveland Clinic. Again, I'd like to reiterate that being on faculty of the Cleveland Clinic does not mean with CCLCM. Thanks for your editing and understanding, SpencerT♦Nominate! 23:21, 2 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

All current faculty can be found here: http://casemed.case.edu/about/faculty_directory.cfm, as those faculty appointed at Cleveland Clinic are appointed through Case Western Reserve (Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine of Case Western Reserve University). That should clear everything up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TDrum2007 (talk • contribs) 20:17, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, that does. Thanks for the verification! SpencerT♦Nominate! 04:41, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Contested deletion[edit]

This page is not unambiguously promotional, because it provides additional information in a non-editorialized fashion about a completely distinct medical education program at CWRU School of Medicine. CCLCM has distinct admissions committees, admissions criteria, leadership, faculty, students, and educational mission. It a partnership between CWRU and Cleveland Clinic, not a small ancillary program within CWRU School of Medicine. Because of this, the amount of objective information necessary to provide an encyclopedic description of CCLCM cannot fit as sub-sub-sections of CWRU School of Medicine or Cleveland Clinic's pages. Critically, not all of this additional information is present in the existing version of this page, but could be readily added (e.g., detailed sections curriculum, history, etc.).

If this page is allowed to continue existing, much more information about the program can be added that is strictly non-promotional and would occupy too much space on CWRU's page (community input on the Talk Page can be used to ensure a neutral point of view). This is in line with precedent of other Wikipedia pages, where certain subsections have dedicated pages due to the abundance of information related to the topic. Any aspects of this page that are perceived to be promotional can be readily edited or removed to maintain a neutral point of view (though no such sections in this article are obviously promotional as opposed to factual). It should be stressed that even if certain information on this page is perceived to promotional, the reasonable course of action is to correct these breaches of neutrality instead of deleting a page that provides encyclopedic value. It should further be stressed that no clear evidence has been presented by the nominator that demonstrates this page was created for the purpose of promotion. The introduction is objective and well-sourced.

It is also critically important to note that the user who has requested a speedy deletion may have a conflict of interest, as he/she has repeatedly edit warred on many Cleveland Clinic related pages to prevent the addition of the most basic information that is clearly not promotional. His/her accusations of sock puppetry and promotions are not based on evidence but his own opinions. Specifically, there is no evidence for his/her accusation that another page related to this one has been "infested with paid editors and conflicted editors." I request any administrator who is reviewing this to investigate the nominator's claims. Altogether, this behavior suggests a gross negative bias toward Cleveland Clinic and should not be allowed to solely determine the fate of this and related pages. Thank you for your thoughtful consideration of this matter.Tempest2552 (talk) 03:00, 21 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Please disclose your affiliation with the school, and state whether you have edited this page or others under IPs or other accounts. Separately, please clarify if you are paid by the school. You 'must disclose that if you are, per the WP:PAID policy. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 04:13, 21 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Page was created by an account called CCLCM: Special:Contributions/CCLCM -- WP:CORPNAME, obvious paid editor.
Page editing stats:
1) #1 contributor is Clevelandclinic2015 -- Special:Contributions/Clevelandclinic2015 -- WP:CORPNAME, obvious paid editor.
2) contributor is 2,3-DPG -- Special:Contributions/2,3-DPG -- WP:SPA who did pretty much nothing but edit about CC or CCLCM; very WP:APPARENTCOI
3) and #4 and #5 and #6 -- FeatherPluma and TylerDurden8823 and Spencer and me -- four editors including an admin who were trying to clean this page up.
7) is Mednon, like #2 a promotional WP:SPA -- Special:Contributions/Mednon
8) is TDrum2007 like #2 a promotional WP:SPA -- Special:Contributions/TDrum2007
9) is Jazmaan who did little here but added a bolus of promotional content about the matching of the class of 2009 - that diff series; Special:Contributions/Jazmaan
10) is, big shocker, yet another 100% promotional SPA. Special:Contributions/Tempest2552
yep. Jytdog (talk) 04:27, 21 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
While I have no doubt that individuals with connections to Cleveland Clinic have contributed to this and other pages, this is not grounds for deletion. Most academic pages on Wikipedia have contributions from affiliated parties, but community moderation and editing can ensure a neutral point of view is maintained. Wikipedia's speedy deletion policy clearly says that pages that could be edited to remove promotional material and still offer encyclopedic value (which this article clearly does) should be modified rather than deleted. I would again like to reiterate that Jytdog has taken an unusually high interest over several years in blocking information from being added to Cleveland Clinic's wikipedia page and repeatedly deleting this page. This sustained, patterned behavior highly suggests he has a conflict of interest in regard to Cleveland Clinic (a negative conflict) despite the routine accusations he levies against all other users who attempt to contribute to related pages. Tempest2552 (talk) 10:45, 21 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Please see your talk page Jytdog (talk) 13:44, 21 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence for distinct Program Before I contribute, I'd like to make the full-disclosure that I have a nonfinancial conflict of interest in regard to Cleveland Clinic. I am not an official representative or being paid for my contributions here or elsewhere on Wikipedia.

With that said, I'd like to submit some evidence for the notion that CCLCM is indeed a distinct program, and thus probably deserves its dedicated page. The first piece of evidence is from Doximity, a large social media platform for healthcare providers. On there, physicians can provide information on where they went to medical school. Cleveland Clinic Lerner and Case Western Reserve are two distinct options despite sharing the same parent program. This is because they are indeed viewed as separate programs. There is no easy to way provide direct links, but if you browse the profiles of doctors who graduated from CWRU, you will see that CCLCM and CWRU are distinct.

The second piece of evidence that supports this is how other medical centers classify graduates from CCLCM. I did some digging, and found that one year several students from both CWRU Med and CCLCM matched to the same program at Duke. On Duke's profile page of their residents for that year, their biographies reflect the distinct programs from which they came. CCLCM grads have CCLCM under medical school whereas traditional CWRU grads have Case Western listed. Here is the link: https://medicine.duke.edu/education-and-training/internal-medicine-residency/duke-residents/current-residents

Finally, I would like to voice my agreement with Tempest that Jytdog does not seem to be a completely neutral party in this matter. I reached out to him/her regarding contributing to the Cleveland Clinic page with the intent to fully disclose my COI. A few days ago I added this COI to my user page and it was also added to the Talk Page at Cleveland Clinic's article. I proceeded to make minor edits that did not in anyway change the substance or content of what was originally in the article. For more substantial changes I had in mind, I posted on the Talk Page to solicit feedback with my COI in mind, and made no direct edits. Despite this Jytdog, proceeded to edit war with me over trivial changes and proceeded to threaten to have me banned for posting promotional content on my user page. This discouraged me from making further contributions. This behavior, as well as behavior exhibited on this page, leads me to also question his/her objectiveness, or at the very least his/her capacity to participate in a professional and non-hostile manner in this discussion. Wikiuser5991 (talk) 16:21, 21 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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