Talk:European theatre of World War II

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Notice: This is a daughter article of World War II - It was taken from the mother page made to alleviate the size of the older article. WhisperToMe 07:21, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Will whoever is inserting the word 'Nazi' before every occurrence of the word "Germany" please stop doing it. I understand your desire to distance current day Germany from the atrocities of WWII, but it is very unnecessary. We explain the situation at the top of the article. DJ Clayworth 16:59, 24 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Dresden casualties[edit]

I think it would be fair to mention that the figure of 25,000–35,000 people being killed in the firestorm belongs to the lower end of possible estimates. There were actually a lot of refugees pouring in to the city from the east to avoid the Red Army. Even though the Dresden bombings is constantly under debate, because of the use in politics (both during the war and afterwards) we must acknowledge the fact that the historians simply do not know how many that were killed in the raid. And as I said 25.000-35.000 is the absolute lowest estimate made. Another figure that is mentioned is 50.000-70.000.


Why was this moved? Andy Mabbett 20:12, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Theater is used in all the other spellings so it makes since to leave it where it is. Check for yourself. It's uniform. Even in the asian theaters. The template uses it. The category uses it. Go look if you don't believe me.
Not only is it not used uniformly; we don't standardize on U.S. spellings. The category uses it, because you just created it that way, at 21:23, on 4 Jul 2004 . Andy Mabbett 07:33, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Like I said, check for yourself.
I did. Before you started moving pages, the category listed one "theater" and two "theatres". Andy Mabbett 15:17, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Doesn't the category use the theaters spelling? Besides logic demands that theater be used since you do not pronounce the word the-a-tray.

I'm going to make a wild guess here and say you might be American? Theatre and Theater are both legitimate spellings, and both used throughout Wikipedia. In Europe (i.e. the location of the European Theatre of World War II) Theatre is the dominant spelling.

(P.S. you can sign your posts on talk pages by putting four tilde characters at the end of what you write - like this ~~~~ DJ Clayworth 16:18, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Bad example, i believe the word is used once in the entire article.--naryathegreat 16:32, Jul 5, 2004 (UTC)

All the more reason not to mess with the title. DJ Clayworth 16:34, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I felt that, with the other changes, it was best to make it as uniform as possible.

Also, the Preceding events of the euopean theatre of world war ii article move was especially important because that title is in no version of english correct --naryathegreat 16:35, Jul 5, 2004 (UTC)

Which article is that? European Theatre of World War II was fine - was there another article whose title you were worried about?

DJ Clayworth 16:49, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

See Events Preceding World War II in Europe and i'm not the only one who thinks that Preceding Events of the European Theatre of World War II was a dumb title. Also, European theatre of World War II was not fine, it was spelled incorrectly :) --naryathegreat 17:32, Jul 5, 2004 (UTC)

Moved from article[edit]

Nazi policy in occupied countires
 General Government

Is this a todo list? — Matt 00:47, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

This article[edit]

"This article discusses the European Theatre of World War II."

Ummm, I think we can assume everyone can read the title...?--naryathegreat 01:51, Aug 21, 2004 (UTC)

It's in the Wikipedia:Manual of Style that the first sentence in an article should contain the title of the article. Perhaps a re-wording would be more appropriate. There shouldn't be links in the bolded title though. Mintguy (T) 01:56, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Then maybe an introduction?--naryathegreat 02:24, Aug 21, 2004 (UTC)

Notice: This is a daughter article of World War II - It was taken from the mother page made to alleviate the size of the older article. WhisperToMe 07:21, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Will whoever is inserting the word 'Nazi' before every occurrence of the word 'Germany' please stop doing it. I understand your desire to distance current day Germany from the atrocities of WWII, but it is unnecessary. We explain the situation at the top of the article. DJ Clayworth 16:59, 24 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Unbalanced article[edit]

From the sections, Preceding Events through The War comes to the West, there is a remarkable dirth of information compared with the next half of the article, shouldn't something be done?--naryathegreat 01:53, Aug 21, 2004 (UTC)

This article is in poor shape, there are too many short stubby paragraphs, and the writing is fragmented (I suspect many edits, especially by people unfamiliar with English has caused this), and above all, the flow is not so great. I've changed some stuff, but I would seriously suggest a rewrite, maybe in a temp somwhere until it could be moved here?--naryathegreat 02:24, Aug 21, 2004 (UTC)

Update: I am still of the same opinion as above, though I have taken quite an extended Wikiholiday. Anywhoo, I am about to begin a possible rewrite of the article at a temp. My reasons are:

A) The writing is disjointed and overall, poor, just read the first paragraph. B) The structure is a little awkward, and loses momentum and continuity in several places C) Some important information, especially analysis, so important to a subpage like this, is nonexistant.

I'd love help, and I think i'll keep much of the basic structure. Since there has been no comment or objection since my original proposal on Aug. 21, I plan to begin some time in the next few days at User:Naryathegreat/European Theater of World War II.--naryathegreat 20:50, Oct 17, 2004 (UTC)

I think that you need to tell the geography (climate, topography, and resources) of the European theatre and how the Allies and Axis handled this

Also some of the statements are bias such as claim that Soviet Union and Nazi Germany were sworn enemies. That is a straight lie. Stalin was the main supporter of Germany that suufered the most after the WWI. He even helped Hitler win the election by ordering the Communist Party of Germany give their votes to his Party. Soviet Union helped out greatly in Germany revival by trade and exchange of military education overlooking any sanctions of the League of Nations. Later both and Soviet Union and Nazi Germany started the WWII to conquer the whole world which was the main goal of Stalin. For some strange reason the history blames only Germany in the invasion of Poland. But is it really fair? Once again after the WWII Germany became the only scapegoat, and Soviet Union was perceived as the victor. It is the same Russian-Georgian conflict of 2008 when the Europe once again got scared of Russia like back in 1939, and 1945, and plenty of other times. The Sovit Union and Germany were the main aggressors in the WWII.Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 04:35, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
Majority Western sources disagree with your statements (although some revisionist theories do exist on that account). And, let me remind you that the other Axis' name was "Anti-Comintern Pact". In addition, many sources agree that ideology (including the concept of Crusade against Jewish Bolshevism) was one of the most essential driving force of the Hitler's policy...
--Paul Siebert (talk) 17:08, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

How many?[edit]

Many French soldiers, as well as those of other occupied countries, escaped to Britain. Any detailed numbers for 1940 and later? Many is 10,000 or 500,000? From Free French Forces I gather that it was approximately 10,000 (by the end of July that year, only 7,000 people had volunteered to join the Free French forces. The Free French Navy had fifty ships and some 3,600 men operating as an auxiliary force). And how about Vichy numbers? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 10:30, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Soviet role in the defeat of Japan[edit]

I'd say it is misleading to say that the USSR "contributed very little to the defeat of Japan". While the period in which the USSR was at war with Japan was brief, it included one of Japan's largest and most crushing defeats as the Red Army comprehensively demolished the Japanese forces in Manchuria and took the Kurile Islands.

In the HarperCollins Atlas of the Second World War it states that the USSR used 1.5 million men, 28 000 guns, 5 500 tanks and 4 370 aircraft against Japanese forces numbering one million men, 5 360 guns, 1 115 tanks and 1 800 aircraft. The Red Army advanced 560 miles in 11 days. It goes on to say "Soviet commentators regard the destruction of Japan's last and largest concentration of ground forces as a cardinal factor in Japan's surrender. Western analysts maintain a particular interest in the campaign as a prototype for future strategic operations."

By the time of the Soviet action against Japan, were the Japanese facing the Soviets putting up a real defense? The Soviets claimed to have killed over 80,000 and captured over 500,000 POWs. See <>. Does that sound like the Japanese of World War II? 01:13, 4 October 2007 (UTC)IMS

The Kurile Islands were occupied way after the WWII was over. The UN as the League of Nations simply did not have enough guts to force the Soviet Union out of the region. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 04:41, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Useful image?[edit]

I think the PD image located here could be of use in this article, but it merges our definition of the European Theatre (action on Europe itself) with the North African Campaign. Oberiko 15:06, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Italia declares war on France[edit]

It seems to me that there is an inconsistency in this article. In section War comes to the west, it is said On 10 June Italy also declared war [on France]., but in the section The Mediterranean and Balkans, it is said Mussolini's regime declared war on Britain and France on June 11, 1940, ... What is actually true? -- Obradović Goran (talk 08:02, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

The truth is that the whole article is a joke and a fairy tale lacking deep analysis and not stating the true facts. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 04:43, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Partisan action[edit]

It would be interesting to read about the partisan operations and action and its significance during WWII. Samulili 13:27, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Undue weight[edit]

It seems to me that undue weight is given to the role of Western allies. For instance, the small and unimportant Battle of Hurtgen Forest is given, while for the Soviets only a few important battles are identified (Many are missing, like the Battles of Rzhev or Battle of the Dnieper)... With respect, Ko Soi IX (talk) 07:39, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:StPaulsCathedral.jpg[edit]

Nuvola apps important.svg

Image:StPaulsCathedral.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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Save_Us_229 22:10, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

The Animation[edit]

is not accurate. Much of Yugoslavia was battle field, so it can not be presented as dark blue. And Yugoslav partizans fought on the Allied side-- Bojan  10:45, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Also the month guide is in German. Im not sure how important it is to have it in English, its pretty easy to see that Mai = May and Okt = October; i just thought id mention it if anyone feels compelled to correct the mistake pointed out above. Captain Crush (talk) 17:10, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
German Sourced Animation?--Jakezing (talk) 13:26, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:German Troops In Warsaw.jpg[edit]

The image Image:German Troops In Warsaw.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

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Currently we have these articles:

  • European Theatre of World War II
  • Middle East Theatre of World War II
  • Mediterranean, Middle East and African theatres of World War II
  • South-East Asian theatre of World War II
  • South West Pacific theatre of World War II

The capitalization of the word "theatre" needs to be consistent. Punkmorten (talk) 16:46, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Shouldn't it be a lowercase "t" in each instance? (talk) 15:33, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Mistakes about Hitler during last days in the bunker[edit]

Eva Braun was not Hilter's "life long love." If anyone qualifies for that, it would be Hitler'r neice, Geli Raubal, who committed suicide before the war started, to escape her uncle's suffocating affections. Hitler met Braun much later in life. Also, there is no evidence to suggest that the execution of Mussolini had any major influence on Hitler's view of whether the war was lost, or not. Hitler's paranoia over his generals, the collapse of the Berlin defense, and the Russian shelling that was clearly heard inside the bunker had the most to due with that. HammerFilms1 (talk) 18:43, 3 January 2010 (UTC)HammerFilms1


Balkan theatre section needs to be expanded. It ends with 1941, doesn't mention uprisings in Yugoslavia, Greece and Albania. -- Bojan  Talk  05:16, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Citations desperately needed[edit]

The Pacific theater page is suffering similarly from a pretty hefty lack of citations. There are whole sections (e.g. The Eastern Front) which have one or two citations, or in many cases, none. That's bad enough when we are sticking to statements of fact (i.e. Germany invaded Poland in x year, etc) But there's a LOT of analysis and opinion represented here, some of it pretty subjective. I don't necessarily disagree with any of it, but it reall needs to be sourced. The whole article should be one big "Citation Needed".

For a subject that has had so much written about it by so many people, there HAVE to be good references out there to back up what is written. If not, this needs to be scaled back. I'd rather the former, but this is nowhere near being a well referenced article. Given its importance and scale, it really should be. Jbower47 (talk) 19:15, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Of course, all needed refs should be added, however, this article has much more serious problems. I plan to start to improve it soon, so if you have any ideas on that account, please, share with me.--Paul Siebert (talk) 20:18, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Stalingrad section biased?[edit]

I believe the third paragraph of the section titled 'Summer campaign of 1942 and Stalingrad' is biased. It reads:

Indecision by Hitler, dissent among the higher-ranked Nazi German officers, and extended supply lines combined in a prolonged battle in the streets of Stalingrad. Germany eventually occupied over 90% of the city, but in an attempt to defeat the remaining Soviet defenders almost all German soldiers in the area were funnelled into the ruins of the city. Months of bitter hand-to-hand combat in the ruins of the city depleted the German forces, leaving only weak Romanian and Hungarian forces to guard the flanks of the Stalingrad army group. In Operation Uranus, the Soviets easily defeated these minor Axis forces as they performed a massive encirclement operation. The German troops remaining in the city were trapped – cut off from their supply lines and starving, amidst a harsh winter, they were ordered by Hitler to fight to the last man, and they displayed incredible fortitude and bravery under unbearable conditions.

It emphasizes the bravery and of the Germans in unbearable conditions, and makes excuses for the poor campaign, such as, "indecision by Hitler, dissent among German officers, etc.," and dismisses the Romanian and Hungarian flanks, implying that they're weak because they're Romanian and Hungarian, and not because they had no tank support against a massive invasion of Soviet tanks. In my opinion, this paragraph sounds like it was written by a German nationalist who tried to justify why the Germans lost the campaign by emphasizing blame on what he felt needed blame.

I'll leave it to others to decide how it should be rewritten, if at all, as that's far from my specialty, but I'm just expressing my opinion as how I perceived the paragraph.--DeaTh-ShiNoBi (talk) 00:37, 23 June 2014 (UTC)