Talk:Freediving

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Risks?[edit]

I miss more information about the risks of the sports. It is something to be considered. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.252.232.240 (talk) 17:04, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

>you shoudl talk about pipin and audrey and how she died doing free-diving. >sports illustrated did an amazing story on these two.

Why sensationalise the subject over a single high profile accident? Very few free divers subject themselves to the risks of record-breaking no-limits diving.

There is a lot of exciting competitive freediving going on around the world, in the disciplines of constant weight, dynamic apnea and static apnea. It is rare for a competition to take place without some national or world record being broken. The advances in endurance are quite phenomenal.

At the same time, the governing organisations ( such as AIDA ) take the safety of these events very seriously, and to date no fatalaties have occurred in competition. ( Which is why no-limits freediving is banned in competition. )

If freediving is to advance as a sport, then this is where the focus should be. I am sure Audrey Maestre would not have wanted her death to be the one thing the world associates freediving with, and even more sure that Pipin is of that opinion too.

Wikipedia isn't about advancing sports; it's about describing facts. If a sport's leading female record-holder dies in pursuit of a new world record, that's definitely noteable. As for Audrey and Pipin's wishes, they are immaterial; I'm sure Richard Nixon's ghost would rather his Wikipedia entry left out the stuff about Watergate, too. -Ashley Pomeroy 14:58, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Ex nihil 06:19, 6 February 2006 (UTC) I'm not sure how they died. I think Audrey just drowned following a problem with her ascending gear. Don't know if Pipin was a hyperventilation victim. Regarding the stress of record-breaking, my experience with regular freediving is that many people push themselves to the absolut limit just for bottom time, I know I did. I'm a bit more conservative now.

Mammalian Diving Reflex[edit]

The Mammalian diving reflex article linked to from within this article mentions three factors as part of the reflex. The Free-diving article mentions a fourth, Splenic contraction: Releasing red blood cells carrying oxygen. Should splenic contraction be added to Mammalian diving reflex, or should it be removed from free-diving?

Proposal[edit]

The initial description and extended description doesn’t completely match. While I do favor the Claude Chapuis kind of freediving, I do think that it is too far fetched to classify it as a type and leave other sub species out of the discription. The following text is an proposal to improve the initial description and the extended description. Comments and a critical look to the grammar is highly appreciated.

Description[edit]

Freediving refers to a technique that is used with various aquatic activities. While in general all aquatic activities that include breath-hold diving might be classified as a part of freediving, some sports are more accepted than others. Examples of recognised freediving activities are (non-)competitive freediving, (non-) competive spearfishing, freedive photography and mermaid shows. Less recognised examples of freediving include, but is not limited too, synchronised swimming, underwater rugby, underwater hockey, underwater hunting other than spearfishing and snorkeling. The discussion remains if freediving is only a synonym for breath-hold diving or it does describes a specific group of underwater activities. Freediving is often strongly associated with compettive breath hold diving or *Competitive Apnea*. It is considered being an extreme sport where divers atempt to attain great depths, times or distances on a single breath and without the assistance of breathing apparatus like SCUBA. The following remainder of this article will only discuss competitive freediving as an athletic sport.

Competitive Freediving[edit]

Competitive freediving is currently governed by two world associations AIDA International and CMAS. Most types of competitive freediving have in common that it is an individual sport based on the best individual achievement. Exceptions on this rule is the bi-annually World Championschip for Teams, held by AIDA International, where the combined score of the team members makes up the teams total points.

There are currently nine disciplines used by official governing body’s and a dozen disciplines that are only practiced locally. In this article, the recognised disciplines of AIDA International and CMAS will be described. All disciplines can be done by both men as woman and while done outdoor, no differences in the environment between records is recognised any longer. The disciplines of {{AIDA International]] can be done both in competition as in an record attempt with the exception of Variable Weight and No limits who are both only done as record attempts.

Following official disciplines are recognised by (AIDA), (CMAS) or both:

Pool Disciplines

• Static Apnea is timed breath holding and is usually attempted in a pool. (AIDA)

• Dynamic Apnea with fins. This is underwater swimming for in a pool for distance. For this discipline the athlethe can choose if he uses bi-vins or the monovin. (AIDA), (CMAS)

• Dynamic Apnea without fins. This is underwater swimming for in a pool for distance without any swimming aids like fins. (AIDA)

Depth Disciplines

The depth of the athlethe is for all AIDA disciplines announced before the dive. This is accepted practice for both competitions as record attempts.

• Constant Weight with fins. The athlete has to dive to the depth following a guideline he or she is not allowed to actively use during the dive. The ‘constant weight’ (“poid constant”) refers to the fact that the athlete is not allowed to drop the weights during the dive. Both bi-vin as mono-vin can be used during this discipline (AIDA).

• Constant Weight without fins follows the identical rules as Constant Weight with fins, except no swimming aids as fins are allowed. This discipline is the youngest discipline within competitive freediving and is recognised by AIDA International since 2003.(AIDA)

• Free Immersion is the discipline where the athlete uses the guideline to pull him or herself down to depth and back to the surface. It is known for its ease compared with the Constant Weight disciplines, while it is still not allowed to release weights (AIDA).

• Variable Weight is a record discipline that uses a weighted sled for descent. Athlethe returns to the surface by pulling themselves up along a line or swim while using their fins (AIDA).

• No Limits is a record discipline that allows the atlethe to use any means of breath-hold diving to depth and return to the surface as long as an guideline is used to measure the distance. Most divers use an weighted sled to dive down and use an air filled bag to return to the surface (AIDA).

• "The Cube" is also known as "Jump Blue" and is a discipline where an athlethe has to descend to 15 meters and have to swim as far as possible in a cubic form of 15 x 15 meters. (CMAS) Each organisation has its own rules on recognising an attempt. These can be found on the website from the respective organisations.

Audrey Mestre records[edit]

Comment on the records and Audrey Mestre case. I recognise the importance to give the reader information about the records and the tragic incident that claimed Audrey’s death. However I do feel that it is best to add another section titled ‘current records’ and ‘history’ to keep things readable. --Apneist 14:57, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Free-diving in fiction[edit]

As there is only one item on the list, is this section necessary? Should it be deleted, or does someone have something more to add to it?--Dani 01:30, 2 September 2006 (UTC) Should be able to add 'The Big Blue' and the more recent 'Freediver'. Plus an ep of 'Baywatch' called imaginatively 'the Big Blue'.

  • Delete section. Superfluous, adds nothing useful to article.
    • Delete. Totally agree with above. I demoted it to below the real thing for clarity but I think it detracts from the whole. Ex nihil (talk) 12:24, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but how about Glaucos (comic)? it's a comic of Freediving. Can someone find the refrence?

maybe [1] can be the refrence. Or not? that was absolutely not the reference.

thanks. (sorry if i say wrongly, i am an intermediate English speaker) Dhio - 270599  16:29, 23 July 2011 (UTC)


While I wholeheartedly agree with the motivation for deleting this section, if we do so it will simply reappear. (I've had the same problem with other articles.) Casual Wikipedians seem obsessed with popular culture, and if their favourite film, TV show or band doesn't get a mention, they feel compelled to add it in a new section, or add to an existing one. This is a public project, so I'm afraid it's something that we need to grit our teeth and bear. --Wally Tharg (talk) 17:15, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Agree with Wally Tharg. Leave the section, and shove it in a corner where it is less annoying. Peter (Southwood) (talk): 08:15, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Free-diving vs. freediving[edit]

This article is inconsistent on the use of a hyphen. Considering the title of the article is "Free-diving", I would assume that the hyphenated form should be used, but not being a free-diver (or freediver) myself, I have no knowledge of the matter. For the sake of consistency, though, only one of the forms should be used. Benstrider 01:03, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I have just had a look at my freediving books, and they all omit the hyphen in their cover titles. I vote we change globally to the single word ... but I'm sure someone will insist on reverting it! --Wally Tharg (talk) 17:15, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
I did a quick Google search for Free-diving. Out of the first 100 hits 4 used the hyphen, a few more used two words, nearly 90% one word. I agree to change globally to Freediving, and also recommend change the article name with redirects from Free-diving and Free diving. Cheers, Peter (Southwood) (talk): 08:15, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

"Safety is an integral part of freediving"[edit]

The article as currently written states:

Due to the nature of the sport, safety is an integral part of free-diving [...]

"Safety is an integral part of free-diving" is *VERY* sloppily phrased. At first glance it seems to be saying: Hey, don't worry about safety when practicing this sport, freediving is inherently safe!

Rather, the *apparent* intent was to say that any practice of freediving must include strict adherence to safety measures as an integral part of the activity.

Say what you mean!

Toddcs (talk) 04:32, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Seems to have been changed. Quoted text not found in article. Peter (Southwood) (talk): 08:22, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Equalisation[edit]

Do free divers equalise their ears, etc, like scuba divers do? Cesiumfrog (talk) 06:56, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

http://freedivingexplained.blogspot.com.au/2008/03/basics-of-freediving-equalization.html
Answer seems to be:
  • equalisation is physically necessary for freedivers, but
  • various more advanced equalisation techniques are used compared to scuba. (Mainly because of the shortage of available air. E.g., as the air in the held breath contracts with descent, at depth the lungs are too compressed for simply blowing toward the nose).
Seems like an important subtopic for the article to detail? Cesiumfrog (talk) 03:19, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Err ... yes! The rates of descent and ascent are far higher than in SCUBA, so quick and effective equalisation is essential, as is mask volume compensation. I'm sure folks like Emma Farrell could write a whole section on it. --Wally Tharg (talk) 16:41, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Notability of freedivers[edit]

I've made my first attempt at revising the list of famous notable freedivers (only a handful are truly famous). My critera were: if they were mentioned in the list of world record-holders in the section above (!), which resulted in one addition; if a Google search for:+freediving +"diver's name" returned a 'reasonable' number of hits, excluding mirrors of the present article; or, if a Google search for:+aida +"diver's name" returned a 'reasonable' number of hits, again excluding mirrors of the present article. This resulted in four deletions, one of which might have been a joke self-inclusion by an editor. If anyone objects to these revisions, I think it is now up to editors to justify themselves in this thread.

I have also removed the broken links, as these are simply encouraging people to create more biographical stubs of non-notable people. --Wally Tharg (talk) 13:54, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

World record holders would probably be accepted by most people as evidence of notability.
Title holders of major competitions also probably good, as long as the competition was notable. (sorry, it can get recursive...)
The other criteria may be challenged. It depends on what the hits were.
Generally, the person should be notable for freediving, but I think you are already addressing this.
People who are notable for other reasons and are incidentally freedivers is a grey area and best avoided, but if notable for freediving as well as other reasons, may get away with a lower level of notability in freediving (like playing a freediving role in a major movie, or the stunt person). Play it by ear, and if anyone doesn't agree they can challenge the specific cases.
It might be useful if the reason for notability was included in the listing, and a reference or two is never harmful. Cheers, Peter (Southwood) (talk): 07:26, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for support, Peter; shall look for some good links. Was reassured to find that most of the divers listed got hundreds of hits on Google, and interestingly, all were primarily freedivers, i.e. none were people notable for things other than freediving who 'also' freedived. (A good example of the latter would be Jessica Alba, who freedives and does her own freediving stunts.) Most held records of some flavour. I deliberately didn't add two people who are well known for their freediving writing, but not for their competitive freediving. --Wally Tharg (talk) 23:27, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Definition of freediving[edit]

The article is still woolly on the definition of freediving, but I didn't want to pile into editing before airing my thoughts. I was taught by AIDA-qualified teachers that any breath-holding underwater sporting activity was freediving, since it uses the mechanisms of freediving, even though (as the article points out) it might not be competitive. It is then useful for the article to say that it will focus on the competitive aspects.

This therefore excludes snorkelling, because a person doing this (by definition) uses of a snorkel to breathe underwater, and need not hold their breath. The moment the snorkeller ducks underwater he/she becomes a freediver, even though they might not 'know' it, be very good at it, or have freediving training. (Analogy: cycling down to the shops is still cycling, even though it's not the Tour-de-France.) Saying that 'to some degree' it includes snorkelling is just a cop-out, because it's quite possible to snorkel without ever freediving – indeed, that's what most snorkellers do. --Wally Tharg (talk) 14:16, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

It is fair to say that while breathing through the snorkel one is not free-diving, but snorkelling is a significant part of many activities which focus on the free-diving aspect. I think this should be explained somewhere. The lead section is probably the best place because you can set the reader straight and redirect to snorkelling if that is what they were looking for.
The article may de facto concentrate on competitive aspects, but the title implies that the other aspects are not excluded, and may get a fair share of focus if anyone is prepared to do it. There is no problem with a group of editors providing content on their preferred aspect, but they should not attempt to exclude other valid aspects. If you want an article on competitive aspects only you can always create one with a title that implies competitive aspects. This can always be done later as a split if it becomes desirable.
The lead section should broadly describe what the title is about, the table of contents will give a good idea of what the article actually contains. Sometime it helps if the lead includes disambiguation to limit the appropriate range of content intended for the article.
If all this seems obvious to you, go ahead and edit. Cheers, Peter (Southwood) (talk): 06:58, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Technique[edit]

The current text reads: Murat goes into breath-hold mode for up to 30" I translate that the number and the symbol are 30 inches. But from the context, I assume that 30 feet is meant. But as I do not know, I won't make the correction on my own. 7&6=thirteen () 01:38, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Hoizontal distance vs depth in records[edit]

I suggest that the tables of records have separate columns for depth and horizontal distance records. The current layout is difficult to use for people who are not familiar with the discipline names. • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 21:23, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved to alternative proposed name. Andrewa (talk) 05:46, 19 February 2014 (UTC) Andrewa (talk) 05:46, 19 February 2014 (UTC)


Free-divingFree diving – The hyphen is never used this way in sources; the space is common; the compound noun "free diving" of course takes a hyphen when it is used as an adjective, as in "free-diving apparatus", but otherwise usually not, as was agreed by several users already in this talk page. Dicklyon (talk) 07:06, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Support move to Free diving for reasons given above and redirect from Free-diving Ex nihil (talk) 09:03, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. Per WP:COMMONNAME. --B2C 00:30, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Please consider third option "Freediving" which appears to come up considerably more often than free diving or free-diving in my searches. See also earlier discussion on this page. • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 03:58, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
I agree, freediving is an acceptable alternative, though it looks like it has only become as popular recently. Dicklyon (talk) 04:22, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
Another point to consider is that all the items in the freediving graph almost certainly refer to underwater breath-hold diving, whereas some of the cases of free diving may be parts of longer phrases referring to something which is free and connected with diving (not that much diving related stuff is free). • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 09:33, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
Support Freediving. I supported the move to Free diving above but following the suggestion by Pbsouthwood I did a little research and came to the conclusion that the overwhelming diving industry standard usage is Freediving and I am just behind the times. Free diving still seems to be a popular but layman's term but diminishing, to almost everybody engaged in the industry or the sport it is freediving. I also found that most successful searches on free diving actually went to freediving when the link was followed. My local diveshop, who advertise Freediving courses pointed out that it might be complicated if they advertised Free diving courses. After a little thought I would like to change my support to freediving. Ex nihil (talk) 05:13, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
Support Freediving. Cowdy001 (talk) 10:47, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Support either move Red Slash 03:11, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.