|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Google China article.|
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- 1 Controversy
- 2 Fair use rationale for Image:Google logo cn.gif
- 3 The Truth
- 4 Recent events...
- 5 China Censors Google Hong Kong
- 6 Censorship
- 7 nor any coverage (of re-enabling filtering) in Western media
- 8 Google Hong Kong
- 9 Timeline
- 10 Google HK
- 11 Google.cn still accessible
- 12 Newspaper don't need non-neutral qualifiers that immediately discredit them
- 13 Why Google Hong Kong redirected to Google China?
- 14 Google is the second largest search engine in China
while most of the information found on Google China's search for tianmen square appears to have been chosen by the government of China, if you look at the text results you should find this. Eyeballing Tiananmen Square Massacre - [ 翻译此页 BETA ]Students from more than forty universities march to Tiananmen Square in protest of the April 26 editorial in the ... This is a May 27, 1989 photo of student leader Wang Dan in Tiananmen Square Beijing calling for a city wide march. ... (in case they have removed the result here is the page http://cryptome.cn/tk/tiananmen-kill.htm )
For another note that linked automaticly Cool :)
By the way I now have an wikipedia account beno howard
The original version of this article has one pair of links for comparison, a remark about the Chinese Internet censorship controversy, and an uncited reference to Google's "eunuch edition". There is no information about Google China's business, management, employees, function as a company, or markets. I have therefore split the censorship information into a "controversy" section and flagged it for NPOV review. As time permits I will collect links to neutral point-of-view articles concerning the decision of Google's management to comply with China's censorship policies, and criticisms and defenses of this decision. Banazir 22:56, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm concerned about the two links comparing Google image hits for "Tiananmen Square." Specifically, the Google.cn link arrives at a page very similar to the Google.ca link. I don't think this is right. I went to Google.cn and typed in "Tiananmen Square" myself and found much more inoccuous images. In other words, it looks to me like someone tampered with the links in order to make it appear that Google.cn provides information that is as uncensored as Google.ca, when in reality this experiment, when performed properly, demonstrates censorship.
I have change it back, apparently it was some "covert" work by the Chinese censorship supporters. And I am going to remove the disputed tag now. Mr.Clown 02:05, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
Is Google Hong Kong grouped under the Google China 谷歌 company?
- My understanding is that they operate separately. Our search terms certainly are not the same as those in the PRC mainland. L talk 06:36, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Fair use rationale for Image:Google logo cn.gif
Image:Google logo cn.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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To be translated by someone: Google总部在声明退出中国之后，立刻取消了所有中国工程师访问Google代码服务器的权限。 他们都是在上班后发现服务器的home目录进不去了。事先根本没有通知。 很多人写到一半的代码，就没法动了，要等几个礼拜之后，调动到美国才能继续写
这帮人一下班就偷偷去陆家嘴开党支部会议。 [http://www.peacehall.com/news/gb/china/2010/01/201001160959.shtml Unattributed/unverified story of what happened with #googlecn 谷歌员工曝光内幕：中国员工突然被取消权限 (博讯北京时间2010年1月16日] talk 22:08, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
- Well, it is called Unattributed/unverified story, but then, who knows? talk 13:48, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
The Truth in English
- The Truth About The Google Affair (01/15/2010) (Douban) This is a translation of an anonymous blog/forum post by an omniscient person who is somehow privy to confidential information from all sides. Again, I must say, this is unverifiable. talk 02:27, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
To be translated by someone: The Google headquarters withdraw from China after the statement, cancelled immediately has possessed Chinese engineer to visit the Google code server the jurisdiction. They all are after go to work discovered the server the home table of contents could not go in.Simply has not informed beforehand. Very many people write about a half code, had no way to move, after had to wait for several weeks, transferred can continue to US to write
- Chad Perrin, January 15th, 2010, How China exposed Google's hypocrisy, TechRepublic
Benlisquare, I think Rebecca Mackinnon kind of answer Chad Perrin's question: Google, China, and the future of freedom on the global Internet
But the biggest problem with Google is not its intentions or the extent to which specific actions and policies align themselves with civil liberties lawyers, free expression groups and human rights activists. The biggest problem is how Google says they advocate a free and open Internet, positions themselves as global leaders of this cause, then says "trust us, we're good people, we're working in your interest." Then we're just supposed to trust them. When has that been a good idea in any other human governance situation and why exactly are we supposed to expect that to work for us in this case? Is Google really run by Vulcans and not humans or something?
The Internet has enough diverse interests and players that it demands governance. No traditional state is in the position or willing to assume that role. So Google governs the Internet.One could read this showdown (as I do) as a classic international power conflict between a major traditional state and a new, virtual state: the Googlenet.Google is taking a risky stand to defend the Internet generally. This is what a weaker, threatened state would do.
Now, if I had to choose between the Chinese Communist Party as my government or Google as my government, I know in a heartbeat which one I'd choose. But that's like choosing between one king or another - you choose the one with the most benevolent behavior and cross your fingers. I would prefer something else completely.
Benlisquare, I think Rebecca Mackinnon's essay is much better than Chad Perrin's, even though Rebecca Mackinnon's article is quite long, it takes a bit of reading to take in all the points. talk 12:41, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
China Censors Google Hong Kong
I read about this in Mashable:
which in turn cited The New York times:
The Windsor Star reports that Google China is still censoring *some* results via Google Hong Kong... perhaps the main page should be updated to reflect this? 17:07, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
- Google isn't really getting around censorship at all because it's HK site will be censored as well. The frontage should definitely reflect this. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 18:52, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
nor any coverage (of re-enabling filtering) in Western media
I remember such coverage. It's not hard to find references to erratic or ongoing filtering after that initial anouncement:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/12/china_says_google_to_bear_consequences_if_censoring_stops/ is a typical article that talks of ongoing filtering
Probably a notable subject, or at the very least it should be explained here how Google China is different from Google Hong Kong. --19:11, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
The timeline is correct, but it implies that the hacking attacks occurred after Google declared an end to censorship. While the attacks where traced to the Chinese government in February, they occurred in January or before. Of course, it's difficult to find out which actually came first, as press releases are hardly proof. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 19:29, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
I wonder if there should be a section about the Google Hong Kong service, when it was started and by who, how it is different than the Mainland service, and if users in the Mainland can still access the Hong Kong service to what kind of degree, currently and before the redirection. OOODDD (talk) 02:16, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
- That's just what I suggested two threads above :) -- 19:35, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
Google.cn still accessible
on 25th april, 2010, Google.cn is discovered to be still accessible via mobile browsers (opera mini 4.2 chinese edition), with the "content censored" still visible at the bottom of the page. i didn't check whether the standard site behaves the same.
Newspaper don't need non-neutral qualifiers that immediately discredit them
To Kintetsubuffalo: You don't see FOX news gets labeled "republican party controlled" news source whenever it is cited as reference. Similarly you don't see NYT being labeled, "extremely liberal leaning" news source. So the same have to apply here. The links are still there for the readers to check what kind of news source, Chinadaily or Huanqiu are. Even though you say "it may not be immediately clear to the reader", which I agree, but similarly some reader NOT from US would also have no idea of the dynamics of news organizations, such as NYT or FOX. It would be biased to not present every news source in the same way.184.108.40.206 (talk) 02:18, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks but you're wrong, "state run" does not equate to left-or-right bias, it does however directly speak to motivation. In this article it is pertinent, just as an article on media coverage of Obama would explain FOX's right lean. An article on a train crash or flood, however, don't need such qualifiers. Should we seek a third opinion?--Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 04:02, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
- "An article on media coverage of Obama would explain FOX's right lean" this doesn't happen though. Normally there is no qualifiers. You don't see "according to republican mouthpiece FOXnews, Obama...", or whenever there is some issue on US geopolitics, you don't have "American Washington Post wrote an op-ed arguing that..." to clarify that this paper would possibly be biased toward US on geopolitical issues.
- Also, the issue is not only the qualifier "state-run", there are also the qualifiers "nationalist tabloid" and "Chinese search engine with close ties to the government". Those not only violate the convention above, but they are also unjustified and uncited. "Nationalist tabloid" according to who? Is there a general consensus of independent sources that impose such a negative name to Globaltimes? Where is the proof that Baidu have "close ties" to the Chinese government? There is no citation of any kind of that claim, even on the Baidu's own wikipedia page if you check. Just in case, I am 220.127.116.11.18.104.22.168 (talk) 22:19, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what these "articles" were but agree with 22.214.171.124 here. We link to US government provided information all the time as well as sources from the UN, UN run organizations, other national governments *and* sources form the Chinese government on other wikipedia articles. I don't see why this article should be treated any differently. Chinese sources in China are often more reliable than non state-run sources anyway. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 03:18, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
Why Google Hong Kong redirected to Google China?
Google is the second largest search engine in China
Isn't that was? It is no longer in China though it still has display advertising in China but not a search engine. 
- http://articles.businessinsider.com/2010-03-22/tech/29990556_1_google-com-hk-google-s-china-googlecn. Missing or empty