Talk:Hinduism in Pakistan

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Pakistan  
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pakistan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pakistan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's quality scale.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Hinduism (Rated Start-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hinduism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Hinduism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject India (Rated Start-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

Reference dump[edit]

This section exists to clear any spare references from preceding discussions

Revert by Smsarmad[edit]

Smsarmad, I have cited references for the sentence I added. The reference of M.A.Khan I added here is reference#30 at Forced conversion#Early. Only some muslims left India to live in Pakistan at the time of Partition (remember that British India had the largest muslim population in the world at that time and Pakistan would certainly not have been able to accommodate all of them).—Khabboos (talk) 20:09, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

About the M. A. Khan reference, did you read the edit summary of that edit? It said the said source is not a reliable source as it is a self published source. Do you understand that?
About the strength of Muslims who migrated to Pakistan, don't insert OR and POV as it is very much clear from your comment above. -- SMS Talk 20:28, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
It is clear from Khabboos' comment above and on his talk page that he/she has not bothered to read the sources that he/she is citing. This impression is also clear from comparing his/her text with the web sources he/she cited - what the sources cited say and what Khabboos wrote do not match up.
In addition the claim that people who changed religion to reduce their taxes suffered forced conversion is bogus. You might just as well claim that companies who move their business premises from Kansas to Missouri to reduce their taxes are victims of forced relocation. I realise that the POV sites cited do sort-of make this claim - but if Wikipedia is to repeat such a claim, then it needs to be explained carefully.
Finally, what Khabboos has done is a breach of Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. I realise that he/she has tried to avoid the copyright problems by summarising and putting them in his/her own words. But as he/she has not bothered to read the sources his/her summaries are wrong.
I have reverted this rubbish, on the grounds of multiple policy violations.--Toddy1 (talk) 23:49, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
Smsarmad is correct about M.A.Khan's book being self-published. Page ii of the pdf version says "Printed in the U.S.A. by Felibri.com". The Felibri website says that Felibri is not a publisher, and that they "help the author to become their own publishers." Clearly the book is self-published. It also has more than a few factual errors.--Toddy1 (talk) 00:13, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
OK Toddy1, so we can remove the M.A.Khan book as a reference and put back all the rest right (all the other web-sites can be seen online)?—Khabboos (talk) 03:24, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
Khabboos - did you understand the point about your not reading the sources you cited?--Toddy1 (talk) 08:47, 24 March 2014 (UTC)


@Smsarmad: I just changed an OR, POV statement, "muslims from India settled down in Pakistan", which meant that all the muslims of British India settled in Pakistan, to a NPOV, "some muslims from India settled down in Pakistan", based on the fact that only some muslims left India to live in Pakistan at the time of Partition (remember that British India had the largest muslim population in the world at that time and Pakistan would certainly not have been able to accommodate all of them).—Khabboos (talk) 03:34, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
Khabboos - in your edits of 19:35-19:37 23 March 2014 you changed "the Muslims refugees from India" to "some Muslims from India". Did you not realise that? Your comment of 03:34, 24 March 2014 above is not consistent with the edit that you did. Was it a mistake that you deleted the word "refugees"?--Toddy1 (talk) 08:47, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
Toddy1, I found this online:[1], which clearly mentions, "The Muslim homeland was supposed to become the homeland of all the Muslims living in pre-partition India. This did not happen. Nearly 50 per cent of the Muslim population remained in the Indian Republic, ultimately leading to an anti-climax where India today has a larger Muslim population than Pakistan and is the second most populous Muslim country in the world." Now, I have read in many places, including my school History books that only some Muslims went to live in Pakistan from the rest of pre-partition India and that is why I added some. This book doesn't mention refugees, so do you want to cite this as a reference here?—Khabboos (talk) 14:12, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
I'm also planning to add these references for 'forced conversions': <ref>[http://www.infinityfoundation.com/mandala/h_es/h_es_malfuzat_frameset.htm Memoir of the Emperor Timur (Malfuzat-i Timuri)] Timur's memoirs on his invasion of India; describes in detail the massacre of Hindus, forced conversions to Islam and the plunder of the wealth of Hindustan (India). Compiled in the book: "[[The History of India, as Told by Its Own Historians. The Muhammadan Period]]", by Sir H. M. Elliot, Edited by John Dowson; London, Trubner Company; 1867–1877</ref><ref name="Gier">Nicholas F. Gier, ''FROM MONGOLS TO MUGHALS: RELIGIOUS VIOLENCE IN INDIA 9TH-18TH CENTURIES'', Presented at the Pacific Northwest Regional Meeting American Academy of Religion, Gonzaga University, May 2006 [http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/mm.htm]</ref>—Khabboos (talk) 17:45, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
And then I will revert you, those sources are junk. Darkness Shines (talk) 18:07, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
We have a discussion on the Talk Page of Hinduism in Pakistan, which can be seen here: [2]. Please comment on the Talk page there. Thanks!—Khabboos (talk) 19:34, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
We've decided already to avoid mentioning M.A.Khan's book, but we need to discuss about adding the citations: (1) the one that mentions, "...the Muslim population remained in the Indian Republic...", (2) Timur's memoirs and (3) FROM MONGOLS TO MUGHALS: RELIGIOUS VIOLENCE IN INDIA 9TH-18TH CENTURIES.—Khabboos (talk) 19:41, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
Anyone trying to understand this discussion should also read Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive148 which has two discussions about Khabboos.--Toddy1 (talk) 10:55, 6 April 2014 (UTC)