Talk:Italian American

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Italian American historical population.[edit]

Is there any data about that please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.18.65.229 (talk) 10:58, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Notable Selection and Replacement[edit]

Once again we are faced with having to establish some kind of objective standard for the selection and possible replacement of Notables. I believe the Notables should support the article, in the sense they are important to the Italian American story the article deals with. The Notables, in my opinion, should not be chosen simply because they enjoy a certain (possibly transient) popularity in American culture, or have received a lot of current media coverage. I would suggest that an objective set of standards (consistent with similar articles on other nationality groups) should consist of:

(a) The person has made a noteworthy and positive contribution to American society and/or culture, and is general recognized in American society for this contribution

(b) The person's contribution is significant enough to withstand the test of time

(c) The person should not be controversial, or objectionable to many (especially Italian Americans)

I believe the removal/replacement of a Notable should be treated the same as removing sourced information. They should not be removed without a discussion on the Talk page.

Recently, Rudy Giuliani was replaced in the gallery of Notables by Bill DiBlasio. Giuliani is very well known and respected for his two terms as mayor of New York, and for his leadership after the 911 attack, during which time he was referred to as "America's Mayor". On the other hand, Bill DiBlasio is a new mayor that has already come under a lot of major criticism. What his legacy will be is unclear but, by no objective standard, can he be viewed as "notable". This replacement is a good illustration of how the arbitrary designation of who is a Notable, and who is not, will lead to shear chaos. How long will DiBlasio last if he is retained as a Notable? Philantonia (talk) 18:29, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Stallone has become almost an American icon because of his immensely popular "Rocky" films. Turturro is far less known and appreciated. Using the criterion that Turturro is 100% Italian versus 50% for Stallone is a meaningless and arbitrary criterion. Philantonia (talk) 15:16, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
So if we're going by notability then why isn't Ariana Grande included in the page? She's more renowned than some people in the current image box. ShawntheGod (talk) 21:44, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
The criteria given above for "notability" seem very reasonable to me, but if you have a better concept, or want to enhance it, please share your thoughts. Regardless of what set of criteria is used, the idea that anyone can arbitrarily substitute one person for another is in my opinion fundamentally a bad idea, and would probably lead to a never-ending free-for-all. Philantonia (talk) 22:20, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
Obviously "notability" plays a part here because we can't include any ol' Italian-American who exists, but people of some notability and merit. Sylvester is more renowned than John, but in my opinion John is a much more refined actor and grossly underrated. Sylvester can remain in the article. ShawntheGod (talk) 13:24, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Replacement of Lady Gaga as a Notable[edit]

Lady Gaga’s act is viewed by many as vulgar, obscene and even pornographic (the term used to characterize her act by protesters in South Korea). Recently, she had another performer vomit on her during an act. She is certainly not anyone who can, by any objective standard, be viewed as “notable”.

Liza Minelli, on the other hand, ranks among the great female entertainers of the second half of the 20th century. She starred in movies (Oscar for Best Actress in a Supporting Role) and Broadway shows, and had a singing voice that was second only to that of her mother, Judy Garland.

I am replacing Gaga by Minelli in the gallery of Notables based on the fact that Gaga is, to say the least, a very controversial choice. Philantonia (talk) 15:00, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

naughty?? this is a problem for the land of Mussolini and Berlusconi? I think not. Wiki is not in the morals-policing business. Rjensen (talk) 15:35, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
The last time I checked, we are living in the land of America, not the land of Mussolini and Berlusconi. Do you believe that an objective set of standards should be applied in selecting Notables, or should we make it a popularity contest? Philantonia (talk) 18:46, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
Well, neither Mussolini nor Berlusconi are in the collage of the famous Italians, and also Hitler is not present among the most notable Austrians, so I think that after all in Wikipedia too we are doing some moral policy...I vote for Minelli. Alex2006 (talk) 16:01, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
Mussolini was in fact the big hero to Italian Americans in the 1920s and 1930s. There was a big photo of him in my family's restaurant until the FBI ordered it removed. What I reject is the idea of filtering the article to remove accurate info that partisans find in any way embarrassing. That sort of censorship is antithetical to the spirit & rules here. I think there is little of that in this article, but announcing that the images should be filtered to bolster It-Am images is crossing the line, in my opinion. Rjensen (talk) 19:03, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
Mussolini was the big hero of the Italians all around the world in those years. I understand what you mean, but what I said is that the notability of people appearing on these collages is "filtered" everywhere in Wikipedia. The bad guys, although super-notables, like Hitler in Austria, (or Al Capone here) never win. Alex2006 (talk) 19:18, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
The idea of "filtering the article" via the selection of Notables does not by definition apply if an objective set of standards is used in the process. Then, the element of subjectivity is totally removed. I suggested a set of criteria for the selection of Notables that you may wish to comment on, and possibly improve. One of the standards is the person should not be considered offensive or controversial, which definitely appears to be the unwritten rule in other similar articles. Philantonia (talk) 20:20, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
That's exactly what I was trying to explain with my examples above. Alex2006 (talk) 05:31, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

What historical figures should be excluded from the article[edit]

An objection has been raised concerning the inclusion of John Cabot (Giovanni Caboto) in the article. It is true that he was never an American (and, strictly speaking, not an Italian American), but this also true of Pulaski, Kosciusco, Von Steuben, etc ... I believe that any historical figure viewed as important to the history of a particular nationality group in the U.S. can (and should be) included. To suggest otherwise is to impose an arbitrary and undesirable restriction. Philantonia (talk) 16:43, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

DeNiro as a notable[edit]

I am substituting for DeNiro, who I believe is a very controversial choice. DeNiro had a principal acting role in “SharkTale”, which generated a lot of major criticism (both in the Italian-American community and in the press) for introducing the mob genre and negative stereotyping into a children’ s movie. He also actively promoted the film through his film studio. I am substituting Anthony Fauci, who is a very well known medical researcher and humanitarian.Philantonia (talk) 17:02, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Modification to Gallery of Notables[edit]

In the gallery of notables, I have substituted for Basilone and Cuomo - who are redundantly pictured and honored elsewhere in the article. I am substituting Arturo Toscanini who, though never becoming an American citizen, was of great importance to American culture in general, and was held in the highest esteem by Italian Americans. I am also substituting Louis Zamperini, who has become somewhat of a folk hero to many Americans.

I am further substituting Perry Como for Al Pacino. While Pacino is a good actor, people associate him with his frequent portrayal of criminals and other low-life characters. For this reason, his very image conjures up a distinct negativity. On the other hand, the image of Perry Como, who was one of the most loved personalities in TV history, conjures up a great positiveness.Philantonia (talk) 17:53, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

I am replacing Stallone with Giannini. Stallone is known mainly for his popular Rocky movies, which he both wrote and in which he starred. Aside from that, he has had somewhat of a lackluster career, with few other accomplishments to his credit. On the other hand, Giannini is a giant in Italian American history, whose very significant achievements were highlighted in the recent PBS Italian American series. I believe that Notables should be selected based on their recognized contribution to American society in general, and to Italian American life and culture in particular. Stallone, in my opinion, is definitely in the 2nd rank of possible Italian American notables; whereas, Giannini is clearly in the 1st rank.Philantonia (talk) 00:55, 27 March 2015 (UTC)