User talk:Rjensen

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09:06, 8 September 2014 (UTC)see previous talk at Archive 22

Company town[edit]

Maybe you missed my talk section, you can find it here. Please take my edits in good faith. Wikipedia policy as I have read it dictates that my concerns should at least be addressed before you remove my template. -- (talk) 06:41, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes I had missed it. See my reply. Rjensen (talk) 07:42, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Woodrow Wilson[edit]

Re your recent reversion of my two edits.

The first is simply grammatically incorrect. The word 'It's' (with the apostrophe) is short for 'It is' - clearly not the meaning intended in this sentence. I have re-reverted this.

The second one I have left alone. But I would contend that 'attractive' is POV, unless you would allow 'unattractive', in an obvious case like Eleanor Roosevelt. I think you would soon get reverted if you did. Valetude (talk) 09:58, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

. sorry about that pesky apostrophe...."attractive" is the consensus of the RS. The POV rules only apply to wiki editors, not to the RS. Rjensen (talk) 19:00, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Reference Errors on 7 September[edit]

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Fallen timbers?[edit]

Is there something obviously wrong with my edit? (Come to think of it, I suppose a comment at the 1794 battle would also be useful.) Reply here, I am watching. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 09:06, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

it's not likely anyone would mix these up Rjensen (talk) 10:16, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
Two battles of the US Army with the same name? But on the other hand, a global search shows the older one, not the newer one. I appreciate your thoughts. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 13:02, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Reversions should be discussed[edit]

You recently reverted an edit of mine on the presidential assassination attempt at the Taft-Diaz summit in the Texas Rangers article, followed shortly by a reverted edit of mine on the WW1 volunteer Army unit in the Theodore Roosevelt article a with essentially an edit summary of Thank you, but no thanks.... My edits contained relevant information that, so why did you delete this? First, I believe it is rather bad manners on WP to delete a whole sub-section which is well researched, informative, written in encyclopedic style and contains in-line citations without first entering into discussions on the Talk page. Second, the version you have reverted in the Texas Rangers article is not consistent with the references I cited, although you kept the citation. When I added back my text to the Texas Rangers article, you then deleted it again.

Wiki:BOLD states "Making bold edits is encouraged, as it will result in either improving an article, or stimulating discussion. Therefore, if your edit gets reverted, do not revert again. Instead, use the opportunity to begin a discussion with the interested parties to establish consensus." I opened the topic on the Texas Rangers talk page and I will do the same on the Theodore Roosevelt page. The next stage is to address objections and state your case.Ctatkinson (talk) 10:42, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

I did not delete it I reduced its ridiculous excessive length. It never explains the plans or the motives of the man arrested or what happened at his trial (was there a trial or was he released when Taft left town?) . All books on Raft and Diaz ignore the episode because they do not consider it important (as the author cite admits). There was no "assassination ATTEMPT" -- just a man with a very small gun in the crowd, which he never pointed or tried to fire. Rjensen (talk) 10:51, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting, consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus -- see BRD for how this is done. In any case, a user Talk page is not the place to discuss this. I have raised the issue on the Talk:Texas Rangers Division and I will raise the issue on Talk:Theodore Roosevelt which is the proper place.Ctatkinson (talk) 22:48, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
I think you misunderstand the role of an encyclopedia. It is not to include everything contained in books that run hundreds of pages. It is to summarize the most important events. If major books on the topic leave the episode out or minimize it, that is a clue that it does not deserve much attention. That is what happened here. Rjensen (talk) 23:01, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Disappearance of Beverly Potts[edit]

Can you help me bring Disappearance of Beverly Potts up to Good Article or Featured Article? There's a book (Twilight of Innocence: The Disappearance of Beverly Potts) that we could cannibalise, and facts are not copyrighted. Paul Austin (talk) 09:05, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

thanks for the invite--problem is I know zip about the case. Good luck with it. Rjensen (talk) 12:33, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

An invitation to join WikiProject Women writers[edit]


Hello Rjensen! We are looking for editors to join WikiProject Women writers, an outreach effort which aims at improving articles about women writers on Wikipedia. We thought you might be interested, and hope that you will join us. Thank you!

--Rosiestep (talk) 15:52, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

thanks--yes I will sign up now. Rjensen (talk) 04:30, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
Would Pauline Maier qualify for some help. I'm especially proud of the video link in the info box. About three years ago I took it from a stub to C-class, but I feel like it should somehow develop into a higher rating, B-class or even A-class as I understand the rating system. The main critique in a request for peer review was that there was not sufficient criticism of her professionally. But I am like a puppy in tall grass in article development, so I may just not get it. (See my struggles at Bombardment of Cherbourg or History of Virginia on stamps with their respective projects). Any comments would be appreciated to help along Pauline Maier. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 13:33, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
The late Pauline Maier was a former student of mine and a dear friend. Yes I will help. Rjensen (talk) 13:51, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

andrew jackson[edit]

rfC (not "a"; typo, my bad) Lx 121 (talk) 14:06, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

This Month in Education: September 2014[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue CII, September 2014[edit]

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Okay with dropping CSA rebellion[edit]

Okay, I agreed to cutting down the material on the secession run-up to the Confederacy, and I've crafted a replacement piece. I've had my say at Talk:CSA on rebellion, and it seems I'm not persuasive. I'd rather spend time perfecting Pauline Maier, or Battle of Fort Pulaski rather than pursue a dead-end wiki-fencing contest. I've done all I can see to do on those two articles, and still can't seem to advance their rating. I've subscribed to the Bugle and the Signpost to start to read the better articles to get some tips by learning from examples. But I am still much reliant on others, like the recent assist to locate Bombardment of Cherbourg with geographic coordinates. --- basic stuff. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 08:16, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

that's a good approach  :) Rjensen (talk) 09:03, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 23[edit]

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Pauline Maier, list sections[edit]

Rosiestep is helping out with a fresh set of eyes and copyediting at Pauline Maier. Her critique on the “sections with lists” is that they are too long, they should be limited to only the major ones (See Talk:Pauline Maier#Sections with lists). Your editorial judgment in this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Rosiestep said, The "Books and scholarly articles" section: The list is too long. Rename it "Selected works" and then only include the major ones. If your wish, discuss some of the books/articles in prose form within the body of the article. "Texts, online courses, avatar gaming" and "Popular reviews and columns" sections: Instead of list form, switch to prose and mention within the article, or drop them altogether. "Further reading" section: It is way too long (Wikipedia:Further reading may be helpful). --- Would you have a look and do some culling? TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 13:51, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

too long? no I don't think so. What's really valuable are the short annotations. This is an article for specialists and they will appreciate the detail, in my opinion.Rjensen (talk) 15:22, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for your encouragement. On an additional point that you may be able to help out with in particular, in the peer review critiques received about a year ago, Pauline Maier was characterized as “hagiography". I did not think that applied, as I tried to put her work in context of current historiography as a neo-whig historian, showing how the critiques of that school applied to her work. It may be that I was not pointed enough. But in general, I feel myself out of my depth when dealing with historiography (most recently in your critique of my application of Keegan and Bowman at "Confederate States of America" on the subject of "rebellion".)
I met Pauline Maier at a lecture she gave in Washington DC (the George Rogers Clark lecture for the Society of the Cincinnati at Anderson House), and she said she though the WP article was fair to her, but not clearly distinguishing between what she believed versus what those of the period thought as some point in the article. Again, any editorial oversight/assist you can contribute would be appreciated. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 13:22, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
"hagiographer"???? that's gross. She's been one of the most influential technical specialists on 1776 and all that. yes i would be glad to help. The key now is to read the book reviews--sign up for wp:JSTOR to access them Rjensen (talk) 19:21, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history coordinator election[edit]

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Hi Richard--A student in my American West class at BC is interested in working on the Plan of San Diego article. Is this a good idea, or are you already working on it? Docjay57 (talk) 19:03, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

I monitor that article but I have no plans to enlarge it. The student should go right ahead; it's a good topic! Rjensen (talk) 19:27, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

is there a limitation on copyright to use the map of the Intercolonial Railway of 1877? (talk) 14:50, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

No--the map was published in USA before 1923 and is in the public domain, which means there is zero copyright anyone can use it without permission and it's OK on Wikipedia. Rjensen (talk) 15:21, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

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You've got mail[edit]

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Benjamin Rush and Francis Asbury[edit]

Hello Rjensen. Got your message on the Asbury reference. Yes, Asbury did affect Rush's spiritual life. The two became deep friends in America. I didn't get to add that portion to the Wiki site yet. Was getting late last night and I logged out. Can I go ahead and finish? Let me know. You can email me at Thank you for your reply and your dedication to making this a great site. Look forward to hearing from you.

the text I deleted said zip about Rush. drop all the stuff onAsbury--he has his own article. Rushe met a lot of people over the years and how he met each one is not encyclopedic. You need proof that there was an important impact on Rush--Asbury certainly failed to convert him to Methodism. I would also caution against using it's not a reliable secondary source. Rjensen (talk) 01:46, 5 October 2014 (UTC)


I would appreciate it if you would weigh in on the current definition of liberty by RTG. It is unreferenced. I reverted. RTG reverted my revert. We need someone with a fresh viewpoint. Rick Norwood (talk) 11:44, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

OK I tried something. The lede is not supposed to be merely a dictionary definition of a word. And it misses "liberty" in history. Rjensen (talk) 16:08, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

War of 1812 language choice[edit]

I would appreciate if you would add your thoughts on the several arguments I have made supporting your position in the thread you started earlier today on the use of "Canadian" English in the War of 1812 article. Thanks. Centpacrr (talk) 03:40, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 8[edit]

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Taft reversion[edit]

Absurd, frankly. There are no other annotations in that bibliography. Pointing out that this book is the work of a "conservative historian"—whatever that might be taken to mean—is an obvious instance of left-wing bias.Stealstrash (talk) 20:31, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Excuse me: there are two others, one of which similarly points out the author's "conservatism."Stealstrash (talk) 20:33, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

no bias whatsoever. "left wing bias" is a silly allegation. Doenecke made himself famous as a conservative (as did Russell Kirk) and readers ought to know that fact when looking for books favorable to Taft. see Doenecke, "Conservatism: The Impassioned Sentiment,"

American Quarterly(1976) in JSTOR Rjensen (talk) 21:01, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

File source problem with File:Tobacco cultivation (Virginia, ca. 1670).jpg[edit]

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October 2014[edit]

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File:Dachau cold water immersion.jpg[edit]

Your statement here is provably false. Plenty of countries in the world have control of Nazi publications. The United States is not the only such country. Further, the source is not the United States, but from the British Medical Journal. Even if we took at face value that all Nazi publications are property of the U.S., it is still debatable that such an image could be declared free of copyright. Forgive me, but this is simply too broad of a paintbrush. I am reverting your change here. --Hammersoft (talk) 22:09, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

I refer to US law because that is operative for Wikipedia. The British medical journal cannot copyright in the USA a photo taken in Germany which is in the publioc domain in the US. The medical journal did NOT claim any copyright. Copyright expert Peter Hirtle says: "[US law] 104A(a)(2) was passed in part to make sure that Nazi publications do not receive copyright protection in the U.S." That is reflected in federal court rulings cited at Wiki Commons US Courts hold: " On June 25, 1951, the Attorney General, acting pursuant to the Trading with the Enemy Act, 50 U.S.C.App. § 1-33, vested in himself all rights in the photographs and photographic images “to be held, used, administered, liquidated, sold, or otherwise dealt with in the interest of and for the benefit of the United States.” source this photo therefore is public domain in the US. Rjensen (talk) 22:15, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
  • With respect, before we paint such an enormously broad paintbrush, a broad discussion is warranted. Hundreds, if not thousands, of images would be affected by such a decision. I'll see about initiating. --Hammersoft (talk) 22:17, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
Yes and meanwhile you should read the court cases I cited especially this major case: from 1995 Rjensen (talk) 22:20, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
Note that US law explictly states that the copyright to Nazi materials is NOT restored to the original German owners. cite p 1044 column 2 paragraph 3 Rjensen (talk) 22:32, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Though I know this is not your specialty[edit]

…as a fellow academic, I would implore you as an historian to have a look at the Kalmar Union, an article in dismal shape, both with regard to sourcing (whole sections and paragraphs unsourced), and with regard to speculation and weasel content (i.e., overall prose quality). It is in desperate need of expert attention. (talk) 14:39, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

You need to use Harald Gustafsson, "A State that Failed?" Scandinavian Journal of History (2006) for cites. Rjensen (talk) 19:03, 14 October 2014 (UTC)


Hi there. I noticed you reversed my recent changes to Milton Friedman. I don't want to start an edit war so I'd like to discuss it here.

I've changed the wording to: "Based on their assessments of the extent to what she describes as neoliberal policies contributed to income disparities and inequality ... what they describe as neoliberalism was as an ideological ... "

I don't particularly agree that neoliberalism is a loaded or non-neutral term - surely the term itself is neutral, with the writer either casting it in a positive or negative light, depending on their opinion? While it does tend to be used significantly more by critics, it does have an objective definition, so I don't think this should have a bearing.

I understand that asserting the neoliberalism of Friedman's policies could be controversial (well, personally I don't, but I'll concede it, if that's what's in issue - maybe it isn't?), and I think the edit still reflects this. I've removed the inverted commas because I think they implicitly call into question the legitimacy of neoliberalism itself (as though it was a personal idea of the authors' and not a concept with an independent existence), rather than the correctness of it's application to Friedman.

Does this seem appropriate to you? (talk) 21:24, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

I have been following the term "neoliberalism" and find that it is not used by Friedman supporters but instead is used by his enemies and strong opponents of neoliberalism. This particular case is a usage by an outspoken enemy. That makes it a loaded POV term designed to associate Friedman with an approach the author despises and ridicules. I think such terms get scare quotes to alert readers it's highly controversial and they should think twice about using it in termpapers. this is a scholarly article on how the term became a pejorative slogan Rjensen (talk) 01:14, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
If it's a loaded term, I think retaining the wording "describes as" is enough to show that neoliberalism is a status conferred on Friedman's work by those authors particularly, but not necessarily commentators generally. Quote marks seem excessive. Change it back if you insist, I won't pursue it further (talk) 11:00, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CIII, October 2014[edit]

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The Bugle: Issue CIII, October 2014, Redux[edit]

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