Talk:Jonathan Daniels

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Martyr?[edit]

I'm changing the word "martyrdom" to "assassination." A martyr is a person who chooses to dies for a cause, which isn't exactly the case here. --djrobgordon 04:36, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

It was re-added, and I removed it again. But the entire article has the tone of a hagiography, and needs to be rewritten to conform to NPOV. User:Zoe|(talk) 19:41, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

The assassination of Daniels is well-documented as cold blooded murder by someone more than happy to execute someone like Daniels. There is no hagiography here. I'll be watching this page to determine what is really a "NPOV." Harmanos 20:17, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't feel nearly as strongly about the tone of this article as Zoe. I think it's neutral for the most part. However, I would like to see the phrase "cold-blooded" removed. It's probably accurate, but it's also a meaningless intensifier that adds no real content to the article. Its only purpose is to arouse the emotions of the reader. There are media in which this is appropriate, but an encyclopedia isn't one of them. --djrobgordon 21:52, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Tom Coleman is usually described as "a deputy sheriff" (see, for example, the back cover of _American Martyr: The Jon Daniels Story_ at Amazon.com). Has this been discovered to be untrue? If not, it seems an important item to mention. --Eric-Albert 20:08, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

What's going on with this page? Why hasn't anything happened? I'm still waiting for the re-edits to this page.

A "deputy sheriff" of Lowndes County was more of a permit to carry weapons and use them "in case of domestic trouble." Coleman was first described to the FBI as a "deputy sheriff", only to have the Alabama authorities reverse themselves. If Coleman were a deputy sheriff, he would have been subject to much more stringent federal prosecution. Alabama changed its mind, had a friendly trial to Coleman, and he was acquitted of manslaughter.Harmanos 20:26, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I believe "martyrdom" and referring to Mr. Daniels as a martyr are entirely appropriate...even given djrobgordon's definition....after all, Daniels deliberately chose to come to Alabama and remain there and actively involve himself in organizing the community even in the face of numerous threats...and he knew fully well the extreme danger he faced, yet proceded to conduct his activity...and he DELIBERATELY chose to shield Ruby Sales from the gunfire....Jonathan is truly a martyr and a saint and worthy of honor, veneration...and emulation, as such.04:32, 13 March 2011 (UTC)Codeknight1 (talk)BILL KINSLAND

Today is the Feast Day in the Episcopal Church for Mr Daniels[edit]

I am surprised that "neutrality is disputed," for I found the article as a whole to be remarkably neutral, given the person he was.

I'm changing "Assassination" back to "Martyrdom." On the level of plain fact, it's much more accurate: Djrobgordon's note of 2 March 2006 is incorrect. A martyr in a stricter sense is one who offers her or his life (or, as in this case, death) as a witness [1]) "for (her or his) convictions or religious faith, such as during the persecution of early Christians in the Roman Empire" ([[2]]). That is precisely what happened here.

And a martyr isn't always one who "chooses to die," but one who chooses to put one's life "on the line" - again, precisely Mr Daniels's story. As in Mr Daniels's situation, that choice is not infrequently a spur-of-the-moment decision (cf St Alban).

An assassination is generally understood as "the deliberate killing of an important person, usually a political figure or other strategically important individual" ([[3]]), and I propose that Mr Daniels did not possess those characteristics to any remarkable degree - until his death. And, ostensibly at least, it was not Daniels, but Ruby Sales, who was Coleman's intended target.

As to hagiography: because he is of notable interest only because of the action he took which has led a major religious body to recognize him as a saint and martyr ([4]), it is impossible not to have at least a vague flavor of hagiography. Because his life and death were so obviously saintly - by almost any possible definition of the word, from any religious orientation or none - that hagiographical flavor is not inappropriate. Given Mr Daniel's life and death, this article is as close to nonhagiographical as it could be without falling into inaccuracy. Deaconse 12:50, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Move page?[edit]

I suggest moving this page to "Jonathan Daniels." Any objections? Dce7 15:41, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I've moved the page. I think this is better as he's more commonly known without his middle name. Dce7 21:03, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Move page back![edit]

  • It should be moved to Jonathan Myrick Daniels, as that is what he is listed in in Lesser Feasts and Fasts. Your Radio Enemy (talk) 17:28, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
Does it follow WP:COMMONNAME? smileguy91talk 01:23, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Saints banner and category[edit]

Based on this individual being included in the Calendar of saints (Episcopal Church in the United States of America), I am adding the Category:Anglican saints and the Saints WikiProject banner to this article. I am awaiting reliable sources which can be used to add the content to the article. John Carter 19:34, 29 June 2007 (UTC)