Talk:List of Holby City characters

Initial suggestions

Hey, thanks for starting the page off! I have a few thoughts on presentation, see what you think :) Firstly I think it might be helpful to make the tables sortable, because the "Former characters" list especially will be quite long, and that way readers can sort by year, role, actor etc. To do this it might be necessary to add in a few more table headers, for instance separating "Role" into "Role" and "Rank" (not sure that's the best word for it - "Position", maybe?) so it can be sorted by, say, anaesthetists, general surgeons etc. but also by registrars, consultants, SHOs...

The other thing is, for both ease of referencing and general neatness of presentation, it might be beneficial to separate "Duration" into "First appearance" and "Last appearance", and then add footnotes for the characters who came and went over the years. That will stop the table width from stretching out massively for the few characters who've been and gone dozens of times, like Abra, and it'll be easier to reference as footnotes rather than stacking multiple refs side by side under a "Ref" header.

I have a tendency to over-explain yet fail to make myself clear, so for example, what I'm imagining is something like...

Former characters

Character	Actor	Rank	Role	First appearance	Last appearance	Ref
Kirstie Collins	Dawn McDaniel	Registrar	Cardiothoracic Surgeon	12 January 1999	23 November 2000
Jasmine Hopkins	Angela Griffin	Nurse Practitioner1	Nurse	12 January 1999	5 June 2001
Nick Jordan	Michael French	Registrar	Cardiothoracic Surgeon2	12 January 1999	15 February 2010
Victoria Merrick	Lisa Faulkner	SHO	Cardiothoracic Surgeon3	12 January 1999	8 May 2001
Anton Meyer	George Irving	Consultant	Cardiothoracic Surgeon	12 January 1999	20 August 2002
Ellie Sharpe	Julie Saunders	Theatre Sister	Nurse	12 January 1999	9 March 1999
Muriel McKendrick	Phyllis Logan	Consultant	Cardiologist	19 January 1999	9 March 1999
Karen Newburn	Sarah Preston	Ward Sister	Nurse	26 January 1999	7 January 2000

Notes

• ^1 Jasmine Hopkins initially appears as a Staff Nurse. She is promoted to Ward Sister in the first episode, and becomes a Nurse Practitioner in the episode "Knife Edge".
• ^2 Nick Jordan initially appeared from 12 January 1999 until 24 February 2000 as a cardiothoracic registrar. He reappeared on 27 December 2005 in the Casualty@Holby City episode "Deny Thy Father", before returning from 21 February 2006 until 11 July 2006 as a general surgical consultant. He made his final appearance on 15 February 2010 as an emergency medicine consultant.
  
• ^3 From 12 October 2000, episode "Too Much, Too Young", Victoria Merrick becomes a paediatric registrar.

References

...I didn't consider characters who've appeared in more than one position until I started hashing this out, which could complicate things. But it's probably easiest to take their primary role as the one they held for the longest, and explain the others in footnotes with references as applicable. Thoughts? :) Frickative 22:58, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Ward names

Is there any point adding in the names of the wards as a new column onto the sort table, it would help categorise and show the change in placement of the staff through the hospital through the years. Or is that just a little bit OTT? There would be a problem with staff nurses as they can change ward depending on the episode. steveking89 23:04, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Sorry for replying to this so many months later, I only noticed it now coming to the talk page to post on the same topic :) I actually think ward names should be left out, as they're inherently recentist and change frequently (particularly for the nurses, as you say). It's also in-universe information - any reader can scan the list and understand the difference between a general/cardiothoracic surgeon/paediatrician/obstetrician, but to understand what Darwin, Keller etc. denote presumes a familiarity with the show, when we shouldn't be editing with fans in mind.

On a related note, the recentism issue is why I tend towards thinking we should stick to basic roles, rather than including administrative titles like Director of Medicine, Director of Surgery, which can be entirely different from series to series. Frickative 23:58, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Barry Sloane

Does anyone happen to have a copy of the 28 December 2010 issue of Inside Soap? It has a double page interview with Barry Sloane in which he states that he will be returning to Holby City, but I can't cite it in the article as I flicked through it in the shop without buying, so don't know the page numbers, title etc. Cheers! Frickative 01:32, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Former lists sorting

Having thought they were the other way round, I have noted that former lists are currently sorted by first appearance rather than by last appearance. Other lists, such as the Casualty one, are by last appearance, which is easier for administration. Any thoughts on changing it over - I am happy to sort out? Thanks. Adamiow (talk) 19:38, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Hanssen's Departure date confirmed

Hello Everyone. I want to let everyone know that Hanssen's departure date has been confirmed so i changed it to let you all know. Than you for listening to the announcement. Brendan J Townsend 18:29 8th October 2013 (UTC)— Preceding unsigned comment added by Bt3082 (talk • contribs) 17:29, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Recurring Characters

With regards to this section, I feel it could be trimmed. The character of Terrance Cunningham for example has not been in the show for some time or even refereed to. The same with Nathan Hargreve. If anyone is sure of their last appearances, please add them to "Former Recurring Characters". Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cassiuschrome (talk • contribs) 16:16, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Offline sources

This change added an incorrect magazine source into this list for over a month. They got the issue number correct - but the dates, title etc wrong. So lets watch out for this in the future. In this instance the information turned out to be correct though.Rain the 1 — Preceding undated comment added 16:31, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Maria Kendal's name

Maria Kendal's name needs to be verified. It says on the character's page that it has supposedly been misspelled to her nameplaque, but really? I really cannot fathom that to be the case, for that big of an oversight to be let there without correction for four years seems quite negligent and sloppy. So, unless there is a clear source for this, her name is to be spelled 'Kendal', not 'Kendall'. Yoryla (talk) 18:54, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

This "Appearances" section in the footnotes

I do not think the section that is growing ever bigger in the footnotes is needed. Why detail when a character left the show? This list is at risk of becoming too complicated. I think it is best to leave this type of details. Why not keep it simple - just note the first and last appearance to date and leave it at that. The mention of Jesse Law leaving for a little why seems totally pointless and offers the general reader nothing. What does everyone think?Rain the 1 23:05, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

@Raintheone: I only came to look at the article talk page now and saw this. I agree with you. I also think the article is at risk of over-complication – first and last appearance dates seem appropriate and fine to me. ElectrodeandtheAnode (talk) 19:58, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Are we getting rid of the section or keeping it? Because if we are keeping it, then Donna Jackson's appearances will need to be added to the footnotes — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mercyme22 (talk • contribs) 21:14, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Derwood Thompson

@JuneGloom07, Raintheone, and ElectrodeandtheAnode: Hi all, I have been recently wondering why Mr T is still considered a recurring character. I feel he appears more regularly now and that Hull could well be on a regular contract? Just wanted to know why he is considered recurring and what your views are on the matter? Thanks in advance, Soaper1234 (talk) 16:38, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

He's still listed in the recurring character slot in the credits each week - i.e. between regular cast and guest cast. Skarloey (talk) 17:54, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Ah, of course. Thanks Skarloey. Soaper1234 (talk) 20:19, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Guy Self

@SDD17 and JuneGloom07: Rather than continue into an edit war, I was hoping the issue could be resolved here. Guy Self is considered a regular character across his whole tenure on the show, rather than just his return stint. As JuneGloom07 stated, he should not be downgraded based on his return stint. If SDD17 would care to explain their reasons here and it can be debated. Soaper1234 - talk 21:14, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

This also goes for Clive Gibbons and his place on List of Neighbours characters. Like Guy, Clive was a regular character and has returned for another stint. When both characters leave their respective shows, they will still be classed as regular characters, taking their whole tenure into account. Neither one of them should be downgraded in the meantime. I think there may have been a discussion about this at WP:SOAPS, but I'm not about to go searching for it now. If I remember, I'll seek it out tomorrow. - JuneGloom07 Talk 23:40, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

Your logic is flawed on both counts. You are listing these characters under the 'present regular' heading of which neither can be classified. Both characters are currently 'present recurring/guest' and to include them elsewhere is deceitful. Previous tenures on the show are irrelevant when it comes to current categorisation so please don't upgrade unnecessarily - SDD17 —Preceding undated comment added 07:22, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

@SDD17: The problem is that discussions at WP:SOAPS mean that characters should not be downgraded, as JuneGloom07 have stated. We should therefore follow these discussions and not change the classifications of the character. Soaper1234 - talk 11:48, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments. It is therefore necessary to adjust the heading as you do not wish to downgrade. I have made this adjustment so that his current status remains accurate. - SDD17 —Preceding undated comment added 18:01, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

@SDD17, JuneGloom07, and Soaper1234:Late to the party on this. I'm not keen on the adjustment to the wording, as it seems untidy and unnecessary. On this occasion, as Guy's return has already been confirmed as 9 weeks, couldn't we just add him to the departing section, so it is clear that his return is only temporary? I fully support the long standing policy of not downgrading regular cast on their return to a soap as per Soaper1234 and JuneGloom07's comments. Thanks. Adamiow (talk) 18:51, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

{ping|SDD17|JuneGloom07|Adamiow}} I agree with Adamiow's points on the matter. The title is complicated and because it was not discussed here first, I have reverted it. I think the best solution is to add Guy to the departing characters so readers understand he will be leaving in a few weeks. Soaper1234 - talk 21:55, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 1 August 2018

Steven Fletcher needs to be added to the character list as his first appearance has now aired. 77.97.55.147 (talk) 23:46, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

 Already done LittlePuppers (talk) 02:35, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Ange Godard or Goddard?

Is Ange the new character's surname spelt Godard with one "d" or Goddard with two? I have seen it spelt both ways. This week's Radio Times calls her Goddard, next week's calls her Godard. Which is it?77.97.55.147 (talk) 20:43, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Official credits say Godard, so I'd go with this. Soaper1234 - talk 21:01, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Is that the programme's end credits at the end of each episode? OK then. That answers my question.77.97.55.147 (talk) 20:07, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Footnotes

Two years ago I started a discussion regarding the footnotes section on this list. No one had anything to say then. I am wondering if you all still support it? Just as I thought, the section is growing and shows no signs of stopping. It is a magnet for fan site edits.Rain the 1 19:48, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

@Raintheone: I would actually support a complete removal of all footnotes as notes about occupations and durations etc. should be included in the character's entry on Characters of Holby City/their article. Obviously, these things will need moving before any removals are carried out here. To note, I think it would be better to list the character's most notable occupation as their occupation here if they are a past character or their current occupation if they are a current character. Soaper1234 - talk 22:00, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Change in format

For a long time, I have wanted to revamp this list with the intention of removing the clutter of the notes (see above discussion) and reflecting the episode names for first/last appearances, rather than the current date format. In doing this, I have created three possible alternatives in my sandboxes for proposing here. I thought it would be better to spark a discussion first before going ahead and changing the layout. I would appreciate any response to the ideas! So, all three proposals feature referencing, the wikilinking of episodes and the removal of the roles within the show. I felt the roles were a tad fancruft-y and could be included in the character's section at Characters of Holby City/article, plus any non-hospital staff's roles tend to be ambiguous. Here is what differs between the three proposals:

• Proposal 1 - the first/last appearance consists of both the episode title (or number for recent episode) and the original broadcast date of the episode.
• Proposal 2 - the first/last appearance consists of only the original broadcast date of the episode, similar to the current system.
• Proposal 3 - the first/last appearance consists of only the episode title (or number for recent episode).

It should also be noted that a few references for some regular characters need to be added. I was hoping to grab the character profiles from the archives, but I've struggled to access it recently. Hope that all makes sense! Soaper1234 - talk 15:30, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

I do not dislike the current layout and you know my issue has always been the content we include. I like the idea of just listing the first and last appearance dates only. They can view the relevant article or list entry to find out more information such as the episode name. This also applies for finding their job title and I do not think the "role" column is needed at all. The footnotes are just original research and would be taken out too. The "Appearances" data needs to go with that. It is great that you are trying to source them all. I would be less inclined to support 26 alphabetical tables though. The "Notes" column would be redundant if there were still regular and recurring tables.Rain the 1 22:30, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

I think I agree with Rain here. The tables need to be kept simple for those taking a quick glance or readers who haven't seen the series. They need to convey basic information similar to the soap opera character lists, so character name, actor, first appearance, last appearance for past characters, and a source. Totally happy to see the back of the occupation/role column and all the notes on appearances. - JuneGloom07 Talk 23:22, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

@Raintheone and JuneGloom07: Thanks for the comments! Glad you support the idea to remove the role column. I'm happy to support the use of dates for the layout. Do you think the current present/former character split (with a sub-split into regular/recurring) should be used still or do you like the current character/full character list (with sub-splits into regular/recurring) idea instead? Also, if it was merged into 'one' table, would the alphabetical order work well? Soaper1234 - talk 10:00, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

I think the current selection of tables are okay and they clearly separate regular from recurring. I think we can be more strict in future about the recurring character section. I suppose there is a danger it may get excessive. If we cannot create a good sourced list entry we could remove them from the list. Early recurring characters are likely to be missing so it may be incomplete already. Plus characters that appear in one or two episodes probably should not be there - like Jez and Marty from Casualty. I think changes can be made when you are ready. No one objected to the footnotes being removed in the previous discussions.Rain the 1 14:16, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

@Raintheone: Thanks for the reply. I've had a go at the new ideas and updated proposal 2 with the ideas. See what you think and let me know I think it is a good idea to make sure the list is maintained with sources and stricter guidelines in the future. Soaper1234 - talk 21:38, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

@Soaper1234 and Raintheone: The problem with linking the date to the respective series article is the amount of editors who won't bother, leaving us with more work. I had to get down what I was envisioning with the tables, [1], which is pretty much what we have now, but without the elements we discussed (I didn't do any formatting beyond making the columns the same width). I'm not too sure about alphabetising the characters, as I think the last appearance dates work quite well. - JuneGloom07 Talk 23:53, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

It is worth noting we use a sortable table and which can already be put into alphabetical order.Rain the 1 09:38, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@JuneGloom07 and Raintheone: Fab. I understand now and that makes sense. I'll look at getting something in place, since there has been no other objection. Soaper1234 - talk 12:29, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Hi all. I don't watch Holby City but I do often come across and rarely edit some articles. I was wondering, will the agreed format come into play on Casualty's character list? I really like it. – DarkGlow (talk) 12:48, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

That was the idea I had. I thought I'd see how it went down with the Holby list then look at implementing the format to the Casualty list too. Soaper1234 - talk 14:32, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

I would support the same layout for the Casualty list too!Rain the 1 05:20, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

I've finished the Holby list and moved it into mainspace. Soaper1234 - talk 17:48, 23 May 2020 (UTC)