Talk:Lullism

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There's no stand-alone article here [yet][edit]

Following up on a message I left for AdjectivesAreBad when he/she created this page. As it was then, the article is still redundant to the main Ramon Llull article. If there weren't people actively working on it, I would just turn it into a redirect per our various policies and guidelines about content forks and redundant pages.

@AdjectivesAreBad and SuffrenXXI (who I see has also made a series of edits), what is your plan? Unless you're going to distinguish this as a stand-alone article in the very near future, the best next step is probably to move what's here to Draft:Lullism or a userspace sandbox like User:AdjectivesAreBad/Lullism, restoring the redirect from this title to Ramon Llull. Once developed/distinguished, it can always be moved back.

Maybe a better first question to ask is how you're thinking about Lullism as a distinct topic? While I think that a very thorough academic treatment of Llull could properly cover Lullism on its own, it's a very difficult, slippery subject to talk about. My understanding (and it's been a while since I've read any of the stuff), is that Lullism refers to any esoteric derivative/application of his Ars, often combined with the pseudo-Llull alchemical writings. As the term is used so loosely, it seems like covering such a difficult topic -- one that is only tied together by his name and, to a lesser extent, Llull himself (and thus best dealt with in the Llull article). Another questions would be: what's missing from the Llull article? — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 02:59, 24 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I see many different new accounts created to edit this article. Are others working on this as part of a school assignment? — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 03:00, 24 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

bump* No takers for discussing the article? — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 04:09, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the late catch, been out lately. Let me concatenate my ideas and I'll be back soon. AdjectivesAreBad (talk) 04:16, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Sounds good. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 04:24, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

So, I didn't had as much time to work on the article as I'd wish, but it doesn't look that bad IMO. The Llull article don't have a section about his thoughts at all, just about people he influenced but don't expand on it, maybe it can be something to work upon. About the others editors I don't know about them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AdjectivesAreBad (talk • contribs) 06:57, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Copyediting and Formatting[edit]

Howdy,
I plan to start editing this page. My list of anticipated edits is as follows:

Comprehensively edit introduction section for grammar and style
Reformat "Thoughts and influences" section - possibly divide it into more specific sub-sections
Copyedit "Thoughts and influences" section
Clarify content: Much of the information elaborated in the references section ([5] and [6]) could be moved to the main body of the article

I will be keeping an ongoing list of potential edits on my personal Talk page. Once the list is more fleshed out, I will publish it here. McCoppin (talk) 05:55, 25 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I started revisions. I updated the introduction to reflect an accurate definition of the term. I plan a larger rewrite with the following sections

Logic
Mystical Theology
Hermeticism
Lullism in the New World
Rationalism

Dempstere (talk) 09:05, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Missing Information[edit]

This page contains information about Ramon Lull's background and Lullism's relationships with other religions, but it doesn't contain much information on what Lullism actually is and how it works. I am not knowledgeable on the subject, but if someone is, it might be beneficial to add a section on that. McCoppin (talk) 20:07, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Stand-alone article [revisited][edit]

This article has significantly less information about Lullism than the longer article on Ramon Lull, and no information about the subject that is not included there. Rantalaiho74 (talk) 18:52, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I would recommend merging or revising. This article describes aspects of Llull's life and the Lullian Art. It does not give any information about Lullism, a term which refers to Llull's later reception. I will work on this. Dempstere (talk) 08:17, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

[Moved this to the bottom (where new threads go)]. To clarify my de-prodding, I'm in agreement that this doesn't need a stand-alone article for all the reasons I mentioned six (!) years ago above. I just don't think we need to delete the history (what proposed deletion does). For deletion, I think it merits having a full discussion at WP:AFD. But there's not really much point in deleting. I was about to come back to just try redirecting this to the main article, but I see there's been a bit of work done. If that works for you, go ahead and redirect it. Alternatively, you may want to start a merge discussion. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 16:55, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]