Talk:Nihil

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Good article Nihil has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
July 20, 2012 Good article nominee Listed
WikiProject Albums (Rated GA-class, Low-importance)
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WikiProject Industrial (Rated GA-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Industrial, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Industrial music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
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Meaning/Hatnote[edit]

Nihil means nothing in latin, should we fit that in here?

Yes, nihil is important as a word in Latin- it's the root word of Nihilism, which was an influential existentionalist idea made popular by the work of men like Friedrich Nietzsche.
I have to question adding a hatnote pointing to nothing, or a hatnote defining "nihil" at all. I don't think the hatnote is necessary (really, who searches Wikipedia for "Nihil" expecting to find a definition? That's the job of Wiktionary). But rather than just reflexively reverting the edit adding it, I'll bring it up here. Is there support for keeping that hatnote? Is there support for some sort of definition in this article?
A suggestion if there is support for the definition: This page could be disambiguated to Nihil (KMFDM album) (which would remove the need for the Impaled Nazarene hatnote), and the page Nihil could become a disambiguation page (Nihil is a Latin word meaning "nothing". You may also be looking for: [these two albums]).
Thoughts? MrMoustacheMM (talk) 00:17, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

more nihil[edit]

apparantly, there's a french band called nihil (who are said to be opening for TOOL in their june 28th, 2006 show in Paris: www.nihilband.com), as well as an american band (the american band appears on www.Allmusic.com) from Arizona. might wanna create a disambiguation page for it... 80.179.37.23 16:04, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Ultra used in SFII[edit]

Dunno if it's important enough to mention but the song 'Ultra' was used in the American soundtrack/dub of the Street Fighter II movie for the _very_ violent scene where Vega tries to kill Chun-li in her apartment (the japanese version has a completely different soundtrack and the scene in question was badly cut in the American version making it seem odd that Chun-Li nearly dies - in the Jap version Vega cuts her up pretty good) Seek100 22:58, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

Anyone else think Nihil is KMFDM's best album? I'm sure some source could be found claiming that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.19.236.214 (talk) 21:18, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Brute! Cover[edit]

For this dif, I'm assuming Opium is the other album? MrMoustacheMM (talk) 01:37, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes. Think it should be mentioned, or cited somehow? 206.180.38.20 (talk) 17:53, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, a mention (and wikilink) seem reasonable. The art is credited in the booklet, which should be citation enough. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 07:12, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Dead external links to Allmusic website – January 2011[edit]

Since Allmusic have changed the syntax of their URLs, 1 link(s) used in the article do not work anymore and can't be migrated automatically. Please use the search option on http://www.allmusic.com to find the new location of the linked Allmusic article(s) and fix the link(s) accordingly, prefereably by using the {{Allmusic}} template. If a new location cannot be found, the link(s) should be removed. This applies to the following external links:

--CactusBot (talk) 10:13, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Bill Rieflin[edit]

"drummer Bill Rieflin, the latter of whom was working with KMFDM for the first time" – He was on "Godlike (Original Chicago Wax Trax version)" from Naive. I understand that he worked with KMFDM in a more collaborative way on Nihil, instead of just providing hi-hat, so is there a better way to word this? MrMoustacheMM (talk) 03:18, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Oh dang, I forgot about that. I'll just put it back the way it was, since he didn't really do any writing until Symbols anyway. Torchiest talkedits 03:22, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Nihil/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Status (talk · contribs) 19:06, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Lead[edit]

  • Seems like it could be expanded on a bit more.

Background[edit]

  • KMFDM had finished their "Angstfest" tour in support of Angst in 1994 --> KMFDM had finished their Angstfest tour in support of Angst in 1994.
  • Background doesn't seem to flow very well; just reads as a bunch of facts put together. Try fluffing it out a bit.

Production[edit]

  • Doesn't seem like "Nihil is one of only two KMFDM studio albums (Opium being the other) that does not feature cover artwork by pop-artist Brute!. Instead, the cover was designed by Rieflin's wife Francesca Sundsten." belongs in a production section. Maybe if it was retitled to "production and artwork". Additionally, the last sentence is unsourced.

Release[edit]

  • The bit rate of the sample needs to be reduced to around 54, per the sample guidelines.

Critical reception[edit]

  • Nihil received very favorable reviews. --> Nihil received very favorable reviews from music critics.
  • No --> number
  • called --> labelled

References[edit]

  • A few issues with the references. TV.com and Allmusic aren't magazines or published sources, so they should not be in italics. Make sure this is addressed throughout the article.
  • Ref 13 --> Should be like ref 20

Thanks for the review! It will probably take me a while to bulk up the background section, but I can address two issues right now:

  • "No." is actually the correct format per WP:MOS.
  • I don't think the sentence "The band would return to using Brute!'s work on the next album, Xtort." needs a ref, since clicking that wikilink shows the album cover.

The rest I will start working on. Thanks again! Torchiest talkedits 19:56, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

  • Thank you for letting me know about "No." I've been saying this is a lot of reviews. Oops. xD Statυs (talk) 20:20, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
    • What do you think about the changes I've made? Do you think moving the part about the artwork to background and rewriting the rest of it improves the flow enough? Torchiest talkedits 20:45, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Yeah, it looks good to me. Maybe also mention a bit about their last album. Maybe also reword "Sascha Konietzko and Günter Schulz worked with former KMFDM member Raymond "Pig" Watts on an EP entitled Sin Sex & Salvation" like "Sascha Konietzko and Günter Schulz, who produced Nihil, previously worked with former KMFDM member Raymond "Pig" Watts on an EP entitled Sin Sex & Salvation" Statυs (talk) 21:09, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Okay, I added a few more details to those two areas. Schulz didn't actually do regular production, so I clarified that and then added info about Konietzko and Shepard into the production section instead of background. Torchiest talkedits 04:17, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

Second lookthrough[edit]

  • The background section is for information about what happened before the production of the album. So the information about the album cover is irrelevant here. I think release would be the best place to put it. Also, It should probably be retitled "background and development".
  • A handful of other studio musicians were brought in to help in a very limited capacity. --> Unsourced
  • Nihil is one of only two KMFDM studio albums (Opium being the other) that does not feature cover artwork by pop-artist Brute!. and The band would return to using Brute!'s work on the next album, Xtort. --> Need sources
  • Everything else looks good to me; I'm just not 100% happy on the whole background part of the article.

I added sources for Brute! and the horn players, and moved the artwork to the release section. I also added some more background information, but I don't feel like there's really any information on "development" that would necessitate renaming the section. Anything like that is in the next section. What do you think? Torchiest talkedits 03:51, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Looks better. I still just feel like something is missing. As someone who isn't familiar with the group, I'm just not getting the full picture, if you know what I mean. Are Sascha Konietzko and En Esch guitarists for the band? It might bring a little more light to "with a live act that sometimes had four guitarists playing at once". Statυs (talk) 03:59, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Okay, I understand what you're saying now. As someone who has been a fan for going on twenty years, it's easy to take a lot of information for granted. I'll do some digging and get some more information in there. Torchiest talkedits 04:05, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Haha, yes, exactly. I suggest you do something like that for all these types of articles. As WP:ALBUMS states: "It should not be assumed that the reader is familiar with the artist's history and/or previously released albums." Statυs (talk) 04:13, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Okay, I think I've clarified everyone's roles in the band at this point, and added a little more history. Is it making sense to the layman now? :) Torchiest talkedits 04:27, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Much better. I now feel confident in passing the article. Great work! Statυs (talk) 04:34, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Requested moves[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No move. Cúchullain t/c 00:49, 30 May 2014 (UTC)


– No primary topic exists. Although the use of nihil as a concept for the embodiment of nothingness as in Google Book hits for "nihil is" is a pretty obscure area of philosophy, an album by an industrial metal group is also pretty obscure, in print sources at least. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:00, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

  • There is only one article on Wikipedia about "Nihil", the KMFDM album. That would make it the primary topic. The dab page has no other links for just "Nihil" or something that could be reasonably expected to be searched for by only typing in "Nihil". If the Impaled Nazarene album or the invisible planet from Beyond the Spectrum were notable enough to have articles, you might have a point here, but neither are notable, and if someone does come to the KMFDM album looking for the IN album or the planet, they have a handy hatnote there to help them find what they're looking for. But no one would search for the law terms as just "Nihil", nor the comic book character or the concepts "Nihilism" and "Nihilist". MrMoustacheMM (talk) 19:10, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose, essentially per MrMoustacheMM. There is no other notable article subject with this title. Checking page views, we see this article gets about 5000 hits per quarter, while the disambiguation page is getting less than 300 per quarter. In other words, when people come to this article, they're finding what they're looking for. We don't need to shuffle things around and add an extra step for readers. —Torchiest talkedits 19:19, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
Readers will still find the album, the cover shows up browsing Wikipedia on Iphone in search, and adding "(album)" to the top RH search box is not going to make it less clear that this is an album. That aside WP:PRIMARYTOPIC states:

A topic is primary for a term, with respect to usage, if it is highly likely—much more likely than any other topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term.
A topic is primary for a term, with respect to long-term significance, if it has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term.

Does this album pass either of these tests? In ictu oculi (talk) 01:35, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
There is no other article topic with this title, so I think it passes based on that. Anyone searching for anything else will already see that name (Nihil obstat, Nihilism, etc) as an option in the search drop down. Essentially, everything else is already disambiguated. —Torchiest talkedits 13:29, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.