Talk:Richard II of England

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Robert de Vere[edit]

I just got done reading The Crucible trilogy written by Sara Douglass, (there is a lot of scence tweaked to suite her but...) there is a scence in the second book where Richard and De Vere fondle each other... So my question is was Richard heterosexual?

Alison Weir, in Lancaster & York - The War of the Roses says, of de Vere "there were strong indications that his relationship with Richard was of a homosexual nature" (and some contemporary quotes - "obscene"). We don't have good coverage of this in the article right nwo - indeed it points the other way by talking about his devotionto his first wife (which I don't dispute, but which tells perhaps halof the story. --Tagishsimon (talk)

The subject is an ongoing debate and will never be settled I'm afraid.

Army?[edit]

Bolingbroke landed "with an army provided by the King of France to reclaim his father's lands"...

This seems somewhat misleading. The force with which Henry landed varies depending on the chronicle, however Nigel Saul (a man of superior knowledge in the subject than I) has accepted the figure is probably around 60. The army Henry fought with was largely provided by the earls of Northumberland and Westmorland (Percy and Neville)

Also

"Bolingbroke had originally just wanted his inheritance and a reimposition of the power of the Lords Appellant, accepting Richard's right to be king and March's right to succeed him. But by the time Richard finally arrived back on the mainland in Wales, a tide of discontent had swept England. "

this point is debated by scholars... some suggesting (plausibly) that power was Bolingbroke's aim all along. Also not sure about the Lords Appellant even if you do go with the argument, what with the 3 Appellant leaders dead (Gloucester, Arundel and Warwick)..

comments[edit]

The section on Henry's invasion and Richard's deposition needs a good deal of revision. Below are a few statments which need revision, or removal by someone who has time.

Bolingbroke had originally just wanted his inheritance - This is a fairly large assumption. Also recent scholarly activity has suggested that Henry was not actually disinherited. For the precise sentence passed on Bollingbroke see 'Parliament Rolls of Medieval England, ed. C. Given-Wilson et al (Leicester , 2005), Parliament of September 1397, item 87)'

'Bolingbroke, who was generally well-liked, was being urged to take the crown himself' - This needs a reference. Was he really well liked? Think Thomas Mowbray may have said otherwise. Who was urging him to take the crown himself? Any evidence of Bollingbroke being 'urged' to take the crown was during Richard's apparent breif deposition in 1387, but due to Gloucester and Arundel disagrement, Richard was reinstated.

-'where crowds pelted him with rubbish' This needs a reference. I suspect it is Walsingham, who can hardly be trusted on such matters.


'Parliament then accepted Henry Bolingbroke (Henry IV) as the new king.' -Despite some efforts (See G.T. Lapsley, ‘Richard II’s Last Parliament’ EHR, (1938)), it has not been proven that such a convocation was in fact a parliament, stating it as a parliament is slightly misleading.

'land in Yorkshire with an army provided by the King of France to reclaim his father's lands' - This is complete nonsense. The king of france in no way supplied to army to Henry bollingbroke. Richard had only recently signed an agreement with Charles. Some support may have been provided by the king's uncles, Berry and Burgundy but this is speculative.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.0.172.32 (talkcontribs) February 22 2007.