Talk:Uruguayan Portuguese

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Original article in Spanish[edit]

The original article is in Spanish, at es:Portuñol riverense. Feel free to translate it, as I am with little time to do it, and I'm not a native English speaker. Thanks. Muñata 16:00, 17 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Phonetic transcription of nasal diphthongs[edit]

The phonetic transcription of the nasal diphthongs seems to be wrong, and I would wager that the spelling is wrong, too. It's the first vowel in the diphthong that is (most prominently) nasal, not the second. FilipeS 19:58, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That may be true for brazilian portuguese but surely it is not true for the portuñol as it is spoken in Rivera. Muñata 17:03, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Original research[edit]

From the phonology & orthography section

The Riverense language doesn't possess a formally defined orthography, but in this article an orthography of Portuñol will be presented in order to enable its phonemes to be represented in the most accurate and consistent possible way, highlighting the phonologic features of this language variety. It should be noted that not all Portuñol-speaking persons use the same pronunciation for the same words (as is the case with most languages). Nevertheless, the script that is chosen is very representative of the most frequent and distinctive features.

That sounds very much like it would constitute original research or an unpublished synthesis. The article should use the orthography of the original sources, or the IPA if that's not possible.

—Felix the Cassowary 21:31, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I actually just wanted to start a discussion on exactly this. It’s borderline outrageous that this has remained for so long. Right now I don’t have too much time, but I’ll try to rewrite it and separate the wheat from the chaff. Weikipedia is not the place to present your private orthography. MichaelTheSlav (talk) 12:55, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I salvaged what could be considered probably correct, and removed everything to do with orthography. I removed the section on consonants completely because the author doesn’t distinguish phonemes from allophones so I deemed it too much needless work to keep material that is unsourced anyway. If anyone has any sources you’re welcome to expand the article. MichaelTheSlav (talk) 20:14, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a bit confused, you took out the Uruguayan Portuguese words and just left the IPA Vowels, but the heading still says Uruguayan Portuguese. Alcibiades979 (talk) 10:22, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 15 September 2019[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 18:46, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Uruguayan Portuguese → Riverense Portuñol – Luizdl (talk · contribs) moved the article without consensus in 2015 and modified the article to fit his narrative that Riverense Portuñol is called «Uruguayan Portuguese», using some sourced in the article as a base. However, the rest of the sources there still use the name «Riverense Portuñol» and most of the article still bears that denomination. Bankster (talk) 18:32, 15 September 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. Steel1943 (talk) 17:37, 3 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Could you please link here the source that call it so as the name of the dialect instead of "how some people call it". Also what about other variants of the dialect such as that spoke in Chuy for example?--Luizdl ^Talk 18:34, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lipski, John M. (2006). "Too close for comfort? The genesis of "portuñol/portunhol", Penny, Ralph (2001). "Variation and Change in Spanish", El País, "El ‘portuñol’ de la frontera de Uruguay y Brasil busca romper su exclusión", Norman Berdichevsky, "Uruguay’s Bilingual Heritage and Portuñol", just to name a few. --Bankster (talk) 18:40, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Reading your sources as see:

Lipski, John M. (2006) - this source is talking about Portuñol that has its own article and it is about the mixture of Portuguese and Spanish, while this article is about a Uruguayan dialect. Also, in this same source it is called as Portuguese dialect on page 7:

“

The fact that the speech of a stable border region known as fronterizo or dialectos portugueses del Uruguay is referred to by its speakers as portuñol is a potential source of confusion when reviewing Spanish-Portuguese contact phenomena. These dialects are not confined to the immediate border, but penetrate deep into Uruguay. The reasons for the heavy incursions of Portuguese lexical, phonological and syntactic items into Uruguayan speech are many, and include the fact that for many Uruguayans in this region, better schooling and economic opportunities were traditionally to be found in Brazil. In the past, this region was disputed between the newly independent nations of Brazil and Uruguay, and was settled by Brazilians for a considerable time

”

Penny, Ralph (2001). "Variation and Change in Spanish" This source has not called this dialect as portuñol.

El País It is not an academic publishing, it is just a news article about a dialet, and they used the word 'portuñol' in quotes.

Norman Berdichevsky The same as El País, it is not an academic publishing, while all the academic publishing cited on article call it Uruguayan Porgueses, Dialectos portugueses en Uruguay etc

There is also a problem with the word "Riverense", this dialect is not spoken only in Rivera--Luizdl ^Talk 19:43, 15 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. "Uruguayan Portuguese" seems to be the more WP:COMMONNAME in Google Books ([1] vs. [2]).--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:17, 23 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Cuchullain. I never heard of Portunol so I am against Bankster new renaming title. 2001:569:7C07:2600:1562:6118:8514:72E3 (talk) 02:46, 5 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I would never search "Riverense Portuñol" if I was looking for Uruguayan Portuguese. KingSkyLord (talk | contribs) 20:37, 6 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Split? Portuñol is emphatically not the same as Portuguese spoken in a Spanish-speaking country. Red Slash 15:55, 8 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.