Template talk:Infobox criminal organization

This template was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

Keep, 31 August 2021, see discussion.
No consensus to merge, 19 December 2014, see discussion.
Keep, 29 November 2014, see discussion.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Infobox criminal organization template.

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Infoboxes

This template is within the scope of WikiProject Infoboxes, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Infoboxes on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.InfoboxesWikipedia:WikiProject InfoboxesTemplate:WikiProject InfoboxesInfoboxes articles

Crime and Criminal Biography

This template is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles

Organizations

This template is within the scope of WikiProject Organizations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Organizations on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.OrganizationsWikipedia:WikiProject OrganizationsTemplate:WikiProject Organizationsorganization articles

images[edit]

Images do not seem to work for this template e.g. [[1]] Cheers --Fatal!ty ^(T☠LK) 12:25, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal: Guidelines on Template Use[edit]

Given some of the discussion here, I thought there might be a need to come up with some guidelines to assist on when it is or isn't appropriate to use this template (in order to avoid issues such as libel and POV).

Here are a couple alternative suggestions I have come up with, which could be used alone or together to form some concrete guidelines. I hope others joining the discussion can add their own ideas. (I have used Russian Mafia, Crips, and Hells Angels as useful examples for the discussion. In no way should that reflect that I have a personal opinion about the groups.)

Proposal 1: The template is only used if it is obvious just from subject of the article that is a criminal organization without the need for sources or additional information. For example, this would include Russian Mafia (due to the word "Mafia"), but not Crips or Hells Angels.

Proposal 2: There is a consensus amongst editors that the group is a criminal organization, notwithstanding the nature of the sources (discussed more below). This would include Russian Mafia and Crips, but not Hells Angels.

Proposal 3: A law enforcement source (such as the FBI website, the RCMP website, the Scotland Yards website, or the DOJ website) indicates the group is a criminal organiazation. This would include Russian Mafia and Crips, and possibly Hells Angels. This would also lead to the further discussion of whether it makes a difference about the number of these sources that say they are criminal organizations, and whether some of these sources are more reliable then others. There may also be POV issues.

Proposal 4: There have been legal rulings that the group is a criminal organization, with secondary source reporting. This would probably include Hells Angels, but would require further discussion similar to Proposal 3.

Proposal 5: There are secondary sources such as experts that have analyzed the group that say the group is a criminal organization. This would require further discussion similar to Proposal 3.

Proposal 6: We do away with using this Infobox all together, leave discussions of criminal organziation suggestions to the article's content, and just use Template:Infobox Organization.

My personal opinion at this point is a combination of Proposals 1 and 2, possibly with the addition of Proposal 4, but I'm mostly undecided for now. Singularity42 (talk) 19:53, 18 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal 6 as per WP:BLP. The criminal infobox is fine for articles about historical criminal orgs, but articles about active groups should follow Wikipedia's rules for negative information about living people. Using a generic infobox for groups of living people does not in any way prevent the articles from accurately reporting if the group is criminal in nature, and makes it much easier to change the article in the event of errors, new information, or if a club falls into ill repute or a gang turns over a new leaf. --Dbratland (talk) 20:59, 19 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal 1 is wrong, as it is obvious from the Hells Angels and Crips articles that they are criminal organizations (and both have reliable sources labeling them as such). Hooper (talk) 23:31, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Question[edit]

Since Jack Merridew is wearing out his mouse wikistalking my edits and jumping in where he's never gone before, perhaps in his infinite stalking, he can explain what is accomplished by the addition of the template noting that there is a different page with other capitalization on the page with the other capitalization. That's essentially a stupid thing - a veritable "DUH!!" moment. Wildhartlivie (talk) 00:48, 4 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:ABF. See also: Category:Redirects from other capitalisations and the hundreds of thousands of entries. Happy editing, Jack Merridew 15:24, 4 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's not bad faith to say you're wikistalking me. Despite your self-professed huge watchlist, you have a very blatant tendency to show up on talk pages or articles where you have never edited, to post disparagements of me, and there is no other conclusion than you followed me there, since I highly doubt you have multiple IP pages on your watchlist that have recently just edited. You stalk me Jack, admit it. You would be shocked at the sheer number of emails I get from other Wikipedia editors who ask why I put up with such obvious wikistalking. And let's not overlook your tendency to brag that others have taken you on and lost. Maybe I'm just waiting for you to screw up badly enough. It will happen. Wildhartlivie (talk) 00:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I was referring to the bad faith you demonstrated here. You revert too cavalierly. Regards, Jack Merridew 02:42, 5 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks yet one more time for your non-notable POV. Stop wikistalking me, Jack. Wildhartlivie (talk) 03:55, 5 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ignoring all the personal stuff, {{R from other capitalisation}} was created for precisely the purpose for which it is used that that redirect and it should't have been removed. That's really all that needs to be said here. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 10:15, 5 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Leaders?[edit]

How about adding one more spot for the leader(s) of the organization? I'm unsure how to make the changes, though. ComputerJA (talk) 02:20, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done--Auric talk 21:59, 20 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed rule: Don't use this template for fictional organizations[edit]

I would like to propose this as a general rule. See my comments at Talk:Corleone family. What do people say? SJK (talk) 10:40, 8 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support. This would be consistent with Template:Infobox fictional vehicle, and others for fictional people, planets, creatures, etc. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 20:08, 8 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Since you supported my proposal, and no one else has objected, I went ahead and added a note to that effect to the template documentation page. SJK (talk) 08:26, 12 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Except we don't have a fictional gang infobox. I'm not sure what the benefit of this prohibition is. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 00:17, 28 September 2019 (UTC).[reply]

Add "alternative name" parameter[edit]

For example Sicilian Mafia as Cosa Nostra, or Camorra as Onorata Società. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 13:01, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I added |native_name= for this purpose. Frietjes (talk) 12:36, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

parameter problem[edit]

The template documentation says it accepts both "founder" and "founders", and if "founders" is used it creates the infobox properly (e.g. Graviano family) AND/BUT warns it is an unknown parameter. Frietjes, can you fix? MB 18:15, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

fixed. Frietjes (talk) 12:38, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Rivals[edit]

Not sure why there is these categories exist:

All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 04:59, 25 September 2019 (UTC).[reply]

@Frietjes: - any idea? All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 00:09, 28 September 2019 (UTC).[reply]

Actually @Pigsonthewing: who added the originals - looks like they were meant to be temporary [2]? All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 00:15, 28 September 2019 (UTC).[reply]

yes, when they were first added, the categories were not created, so I was just making sure there was a standard naming convention and no category redlinks. Frietjes (talk) 12:31, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I just added some templatedata so (in the future) this template will be included in the templatedata parameter report linked from the templatedata block. Frietjes (talk) 12:33, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]