Template talk:Plant classification

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Template[edit]

This template contains mixed phylogenies and taxa with various standings in current and older taxonomies. Does it serve its purpose by doing so? And should it be on plant article pages without explanations as to what it is showing? --Kleopatra (talk) 05:06, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Do the pages using Template:Taxobox and Template:Automatic taxobox contain mixed phylogenies and taxa with various standings in current and older taxonomies? --Arcadian (talk) 05:56, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Query[edit]

How do we include the new information that embryophytes developed within the Charophytes? Basically Charophytes are a synonym now for Streptophytes, when the Embryophytes are put in a deep supbranch of the Charophytes.Jmv2009 (talk) 17:24, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi
I don't think the table really needs altering, as it reflects the current classification of plants. Basically;
  1. Green algae = Chlorophyta plus Charophyta
  2. Viridiplantae = Steptophyta plus Chlorophyta = Embryophyta plus Charophyta plus Chlorophyta = Embryophyta plus green algae
  3. Steptophyta = Embryophyta plus Charophyta
Please read articles, they reflect this. Any alteration that does not reflect this would be incorrect with both articles and sources. --Mrjulesd (talk) 00:01, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
Plant synonymy doesn't work like that, at least not yet. Charophytes might be considered paraphyletic, but that doesn't de facto eliminate the taxon or synonymize it. Synonmy in plants requires changing the circumscription to include the type of the other taxon. That hasn't happened in the literature, so there is no reason to change the template or the articles. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:34, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Nevertheless, the template suggests now that Embryophyta are distinct from Charophyta. E.g. Eliminating the taxon avoids this.Jmv2009 (talk) 19:00, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Please note that the stance that land plants are not algae was criticized in [1] as "artificial".Jmv2009 (talk) 19:02, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

I can assure you land plants are not algae. Nevertheless, the Charophyta and Embryophyta are closely related. So closely related that they make up the taxon Streptophyta. Now if you look at the template it makes this clear: to the left is Streptophyta, and the two taxons to the right of this are the Charophyta and Embryophyta. So I believe anyone looking at the template should come to the right conclusion, that the Charophyta and Embryophyta are the two major taxon most closely related, so closely related that they make up the Streptophyta. I fail to see how anyone could not come to that conclusion really.
Look at the template again and see the rectangular block with Strepophyta written on it. To the right of it are two rectangular blocks labelled Charophyta and Embryophyta, which are connected with the same line. This indicates that this taxon can be subdivided into these two further taxons. I think you may be looking at the template incorrectly if you fail to see this. This pattern is consistent with the rest of the template. --Mrjulesd (talk) 19:38, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
Except that the subdivision itself is artificial, as it has been determined by molecular research that the Embryophytes are a deep branch in the Charophyte evolutionary tree. There is no definition that will enable you to say, if you include more and more extinct species, to say this is a a Charophyte, and this isn't anymore. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmv2009 (talkcontribs) 20:03, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
Look just think of the Streptophya as shorthand for the Charophyta and Embryophyta (green algae division and land plants).
Let's say a biologist wants to talk about the Charophyta and Embryophyta. Well that's a bit long-winded. So instead of saying "Charophyta and Embryophyta" he says "Steptophyta" instead. That's all it means, nothing more and nothing less. Steptophyta is just shorthand for Charophyta and Embryophyta.
NB Please indent and sign your comments. --Mrjulesd (talk) 20:12, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
Wikipedia does not make the decision to "eliminate" taxa. We don't have that power. (WP:NOR) If a consensus about nomenclature of basal green plant clades is published and is accepted in the literature, then we can choose follow that. To date, such a consensus has not appeared. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:05, 31 March 2015 (UTC)