User talk:Edokter

Notice of discussion at the Administrators' Noticeboard

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note ...

Please see this suggestion .. I was going to go for it, but noticed that you had fully protected the redirect. As I don't know the back story, I thought I'd ask your thoughts on it. — Ched :  ?  17:48, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

MSU Interview

Dear Edokter,

My name is Jonathan Obar user:Jaobar, I'm a professor in the College of Communication Arts and Sciences at Michigan State University and a Teaching Fellow with the Wikimedia Foundation's Education Program. This semester I've been running a little experiment at MSU, a class where we teach students about becoming Wikipedia administrators. Not a lot is known about your community, and our students (who are fascinated by wiki-culture by the way!) want to learn how you do what you do, and why you do it. A while back I proposed this idea (the class) to the community HERE, were it was met mainly with positive feedback. Anyhow, I'd like my students to speak with a few administrators to get a sense of admin experiences, training, motivations, likes, dislikes, etc. We were wondering if you'd be interested in speaking with one of our students.

So a few things about the interviews:

• Interviews will last between 15 and 30 minutes.
• Interviews can be conducted over skype (preferred), IRC or email. (You choose the form of communication based upon your comfort level, time, etc.)
• All interviews will be completely anonymous, meaning that you (real name and/or pseudonym) will never be identified in any of our materials, unless you give the interviewer permission to do so.
• All interviews will be completely voluntary. You are under no obligation to say yes to an interview, and can say no and stop or leave the interview at any time.
• The entire interview process is being overseen by MSU's institutional review board (ethics review). This means that all questions have been approved by the university and all students have been trained how to conduct interviews ethically and properly.

Bottom line is that we really need your help, and would really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you. If interested, please send me an email at obar@msu.edu (to maintain anonymity) and I will add your name to my offline contact list. If you feel comfortable doing so, you can post your name HERE instead.

If you have questions or concerns at any time, feel free to email me at obar@msu.edu. I will be more than happy to speak with you.

Thanks in advance for your help. We have a lot to learn from you.

Sincerely,

Jonathan Obar --Jaobar (talk) 18:16, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Template:Dfn

Did you identify a specific problem after I upgraded it to account for the HTML5 specs? If I've broken something in the template (which, I remind you, its own documentation said in two places was in flux and might change), I'll be happy to fix that, but I need to know what it is. None of my testing revealed any problems. Please don't revert without a clear reason based in policy or something being broken. I've fixed it to comply with the very strange and nitpicky requirements with regard to the <dfn> element in HTML5, while preserving it's useful ability here to do mouseover tooltips. Not sure what else you could want. There is no requirement to use /sandbox and /testcases pages, even if they are good ideas for high-risk or high-complexity templates. There are two policies, WP:BOLD and WP:NOT#BUREAUCRACY against imposition of such a requirement. I know what I'm doing. :-) — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒〈°⌊°〉 Contribs. 21:55, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

There may not be a policy for sandboxing, but the unwritten rule certainly is there; you do not test code in live templates. Period. Several of your last revisions contained errors, and they showed on articles. I don't know why you are so opposed to using a sandbox while the stable code remains live. Also know we are not serving HTML5 yet, and adapting templates for HTML5 may cause more trouble that it is supposed to solve. — Edokter (talk) — 22:14, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough. I will create a sandbox page there and be more careful in the future. If there are not extant display problems, please do not revert me like that hours after the fact just to make a point. Adapting this template has not caused more trouble that it solves, and will avoid what would be a massive problem later. I'm unaware of any case (and I pay a lot of attention to this stuff) where anticipating HTML5 issues has caused a single problem that hasn't been easily resolvable. If there are any, I'd be very interested in pointers to them. I'm skeptical they exist, versus flash-in-the-pan glitches that get resolved quickly. If there are any real problems, I may be able to help resolve them (yes, in a sandbox). — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒〈°⌊°〉 Contribs. 22:42, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

PS: Good catch on the id/style typo. My test cases hadn't got that far yet. And yes, I ack that this is a great example of why we should sandbox. :-) — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒〈°⌊°〉 Contribs. 22:45, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

I put my version in the sandbox. It will only use a span when {{{2}}} is used, and only to produce a tooltip. — Edokter (talk) — 22:49, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

I added a boatload more testcases, and this passed all of them. The user-facing change is that any time there's a |title=something it will produce the dotted underline. Is this intentional? I was avoiding that unless there was a |2=description, since the |title text is not always interesting (as shown in the shortest of the E=MC² examples), but I don't feel strongly about it either way. My goal was just to isolate the <dfn>'s title="..." attribute, which HTML5 has weird designs on that make it useless as a tooltip. I put the rest of the stuff in the <span> in case something else about HTML5 monkeys with <dfn> later on, but maybe that's just paranoia. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒〈°⌊°〉 Contribs. 00:29, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes, that was intentional, but can be easily removed. I also don't know which would be better, though I lean to the case that where a tooltip would differ from the text, some indication should be visible that there is a tooltip. — Edokter (talk) — 00:33, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Works for me. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒〈°⌊°〉 Contribs. 03:10, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Bugzilla down

Bugzilla is down and probably will remain down for some time, because of your actions. Please do not edit MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition again. -- Tim Starling (talk) 01:54, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Dang, I thought I was cranky... >;-) — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒〈°⌊°〉 Contribs. 04:00, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Please take this up with MarkAHershberger; he was the one making an edit request, which I just happened to carry out. — Edokter (talk) — 11:46, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Right, my apologies. I'll modify my request: when you edit MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition in future, can you please say who made you do it in your edit summary? -- Tim Starling (talk) 00:47, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

I promise. And I will also never use [default] again when installing a gadget until the script is thoroughly tested. — Edokter (talk) — 09:50, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Bugzilla is back up, so you really didn't break the tubes today. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 13:37, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

After I spent two hours fixing it, it started working again. Magic. -- Tim Starling (talk) 00:47, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Gadget/proposals#Bug tracking helper gadget is the relevant section. Tim was being a bit harsh here (I don't think you're really banned from ever editing MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition again), but crashing a server on a Monday morning does predictable things to someone's mood.

For what it's worth, enabling a gadget by default should go under the same review as enabling a script site-wide in MediaWiki:Common.js. There should be community consensus and review before something like this is deployed. Gadgets have typically been opt-out, but that's no longer always the case. --MZMcBride (talk) 16:51, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for enabling the gadget

I'll try to fix the problems Tim identified or, at least, get a fix. -- ☠MarkAHershberger☢(talk)☣ 17:31, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

re-enable bz gadget?

Could you re-enable the bz gadget w/o making it default? thanks! -- ☠MarkAHershberger☢(talk)☣ 15:51, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Invitation to upcoming developers' events

I thought you might want to know about some upcoming MediaWiki & Wikimedia developers' events (such as the Berlin hackathon in June), where you can learn more about MediaWiki customization and development, extending functionality with JavaScript, the future of mw:ResourceLoader and Gadgets, the new Lua templating system, how to best use the web API for bots, and various upcoming features and changes. We'd love to have power users, bot maintainers and writers, and template makers at these events so we can all learn from each other and chat about what needs doing. Best wishes! - Sumana Harihareswara, Wikimedia Foundation's Volunteer Development Coordinator Sumanah (talk) 13:58, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Template:Term

Just FYI, since you seem to care about these templates, I've finally gotten around to fixing {{Term}}'s backasswardness, so that it now does this:

{{term|term=term with no markup |content=term with markup}}

or

{{term|1=term with no markup |2=term with markup}}

instead of its old behavior of this:

{{term|term with markup |term with no markup}}

which was completely opposite what people expect, because of the prevalence of this:

[[title|title with markup]]

I basically had to replace all deployed instances that were any more complicated than:

{{term|term with no markup}}

But, it's done! <whew> — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒〈°⌊°〉 Contribs. 23:30, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Good work. I still don't like the font size though... — Edokter (talk) — 23:42, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Syntaxhighlight

What problem do you see with {{syntaxhighlight}}? ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 00:11, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Several problems: 1) It has hardcoded styling that ignores any user styling and cannot be bypassed. 2) It uses a div instead of pre which is semantically incorrect.

I tried several other methods, but I cannot embed a #tag: inside a pre element (as it automatically disables any wiki markup). The main object for {{syntaxhighlight}} seems to be the wrapping. Still thinking about how to best implement that. — Edokter (talk) — 12:08, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Looking at <syntaxhighlight>, I think we need to set |enclose="div". ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 13:06, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

So it seems. It's no longer wrapped in pre though. Not a serious problem. — Edokter (talk) — 13:22, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Doctor Who infobox

Was there ever a discussion to change the part of the infobox that I edited. I noticed it changed, so I went back and looked at when it was edited to the current format, and there was no discussion. It was just changed and left that way.ParalysedBeaver (talk) 00:46, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Need help for Bengali Wikipedia at Commons CSS and js for hlist and other updates

Hi, I need some help for Bengali Wikipedia at Commons CSS and js for hlist and other updates. I have already updates from enwiki for hlist at MediaWiki:Common.css and MediaWiki:Common.js. But its not working. Look at Template:CSS and JS MediaWiki messages. Thank you in advance.--- Jayanta Nath ^{(Talk|Contrb)} 05:38, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

You will also need to update Template:Navbox to handle hlist correctly. — Edokter (talk) — 10:29, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, But after updates Template:Navbox to bn , it mess and out is not as like en. Please check.Template:CSS and JS MediaWiki messages. and Template:CSS and JS MediaWiki messages and click on Show/hide, it is messing. Are there any tricks to MediaWiki:Common.js??--- Jayanta Nath ^{(Talk|Contrb)} 11:08, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

You didn't copy all the .hlist classes from MediaWiki:Common.css, only the ones prefixed with .navbox. You need to copy over the other .hlist classes as well. -- WOSlinker (talk) 11:18, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you all, After some trial and error ultimately its working. - Jayanta Nath ^{(Talk|Contrb)} 04:48, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

UKFlags

Would you take a look at {{UKFlags}}, please. In IE, "Ireland (Within the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, 1801–1922)" does not wrap. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 12:28, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

None of the items wrap. It's due to images embedded in the list items; remove an image ands that item will wrap to the next line. The precense of the image causes IE (>7) to incorrectly apply the nowrap to the entire list (ul) instead of just that item. — Edokter (talk) — 12:57, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

So— we can't use hlist with images and expect IE to render properly. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 13:04, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Hold on, I think I have a solution. — Edokter (talk) — 13:07, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Or so I thought. I've narrowed it down the links encapsulating the image. Unfortunately, I can't target those without affecting all links in the list. There is no general fix, but there is a workaround: Place an <nbsp; (or something; as long as the item does not start with an image) before all flags. Ironically enough, that will cause the items to wrap. — Edokter (talk) — 13:37, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

I did put a zwj as a test, but apparently not it the right place. I will check this out. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 13:42, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

You are right: the nbsp does the trick. Thanks. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 13:47, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

It's a hack, and a stupid bug. I hope I'll come up with something better in the future. — Edokter (talk) — 13:48, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

I know. I almost want to make a template so follow on editors don't remove the non-breaking space and so we can track where it is used. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 13:55, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Dalek video games

Template:Dalek video games has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Digifiend (talk) 20:54, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

hlist on mobile

any way we can get hlist working on the mobile site? for example, here, it would look much better in flat list form. Frietjes (talk) 17:30, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

It seems that mobile does not even load Common.js, meaning that the hlist code would have to be copied to whatever stylesheet file mobile is using. — Edokter (talk) — 17:35, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

if you view source on the page that I linked to, you should be able to figure out the style sheets being loaded? Frietjes (talk) 22:14, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Gadget-ClassicDiff.css

Hi Edokter,

The diff styles have been reverted in the software and should be live now. Could you remove this (now redundant) gadget? Krinkle (talk) 03:37, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

The gadget has not been activated yet. And a new style is on the way. — Edokter (talk) — 19:05, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Unbulleted flatlist

Hi,

Do you think you could make a template with combines {{Plainlist}} and {{Flatlist}}, for use in templates like {{Portal bar}}, please? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:59, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Gradient

Template:Gradient has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 06:20, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Documentation for gadget authors

I saw you had done some work on heavily-used gadgets. We're trying to start a library for gadget authors to use. Please check it out and post any questions or comments there. -- ☠MarkAHershberger☢(talk)☣ 02:07, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

hlist being mass-reverted

• Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ice Hockey#Accessibility

You input is needed here. Thanks. Alarbus (talk) 02:35, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

New diff gadget

Can I just say.. it's a marked improvement. Much easier on my semi-functional eyes. Looks better too, less garish than the default. sonia♫ 00:17, 11 March 2012 (UTC)