User talk:Edokter

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Question at Village Pump[edit]

Signpost quote template[edit]

Hey Edokter. You speedily closed Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Quote, from what I understand from your closing remark on the grounds that signpost related content is somehow exempt from MfD, which I disagree with. You indicated quite strongly that DRV is the only venue to further discuss it, but before I bring it there, I wanted to double check with you here if that's really your reasoning, and if you'd consider re-opening the discussion. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 14:49, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

This is a specialized template, in that it only used on the Signpost for no other purpose then to conform to the Signpost design. That is also the reason it is not in Template: space, to prevent exactly this type of nominations. Since there (currently) is no other template that can act as a plugin-replacement, nominating it was counter-productive, and was quite disruptive as the MfD template leaked throughout the archives (and currect issue). The reason for nominating ("Redundant to other pullquote templates") was off the the mark for reasons.
I do not think it is exempt, but more care should have been applied when nominating special-purpose templates, especially not those in Template: space. Pigsonthewing is knowledgable enough about nominations not to be so procovative, as he later commented that *I* could simply have used noinclude tags in the template to clear the spilling, which indicates to me he left them out on purpose. That is why I regarded the nom as out of process. The only reason I emphasized that DRV is the only way to continue discussion is because Pigsonthewing simply reverted my closure. I welcome a review. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 15:11, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for clarifying the close. Andy and I disagree in general about what amount of courtesy is useful in conversation and process, and I agree with you here that as a "specialty template" it would have probably been better to get some input from the Signpost first (@Pigsonthewing: ping as I don't like to talk about people behind their backs). However, I don't see it as a strict requirement for an MfD, and I don't believe that even if I would have gone a different route, this MfD is out of order, but rather as a good-faith nomination done in a somewhat provocative and abrasive manner, but not as being WP:POINTy - and I notice some buttons being pushed that make people react a bit stronger than I think necessary. I also think that that "spilling" of MfD notification on the template is actually a good thing: if people get alerted to the presence of an MfD they possibly have an opinion on, it works as designed(tm) (this is probably where we diverge in whether the nomination was disruptive). Indeed I regard the speedy close as more out of process than the nomination itself. I'll set up a DRV when I get home in an hour or two if still applicable. Thanks again for explaining your reasoning. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 15:55, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
The DRV is now live at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2014 October 23. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 18:25, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Template:Collapsible option[edit]

(Broken on mobile (table).)

Does this mean that tables don't work on mobile devices – perhaps just tables produced by wiki markup – ? Sardanaphalus (talk) 09:40, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

PS The Navbox/Sidebar/etc request for comment is on its way. I've also been thinking about a proposal to harmonize the parameter names these templates use – would you be interested to hear more..?

Any table is problematic in Mobile, wiki or html. Unless there is a pressing need to present data in tabular format, do not use tables for layout purposes. As for parameters, I'm happy to hear more. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 12:43, 29 October 2014 (UTC)


m (Edokter moved page Template:Column-divider to Template:Column-rule over a redirect without leaving a redirect: No ambiguity exists; named after CSS property.)

Programmer-think. This use of "rule" is uncommon in English (consider Rule, then wikt:Rule, then...) and, while "column-rule" might not be ambiguous in its CSS context, that doesn't mean it isn't ambiguous here: CSS ≠ Wikipedia. Sardanaphalus (talk) 14:40, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

Please don't mess with this... This is a CSS template; plain and simple. It is also a cross-project template; your redirect breaks consistency across projects. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 15:04, 29 October 2014 (UTC)


(That doesn't work; messes up parameter count.)

Seems to work fine. What incorrect output did you see? Sardanaphalus (talk) 14:10, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

If you use "plain" as first unnamed parameter, all other parameters must be named; that can't be right. The first param is reserved for the tag name. So in its current state, it cannot go live. Also (doc related), {{\sandbox}} is defective. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 15:45, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
  • I don't understand why "all other parameters must be named" etc; please demonstrate/explain. Same also, please, as regards how {{\sandbox}} is "defective". Sardanaphalus (talk) 16:27, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
  • The sandbox template failed to show the tag tamplate properly on the documentation page. The testcases page shows that when you pass "plain" as first parameter, all others no longer work, and the template does not even show. You cannot replace an unnamed parameter and get away with it. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 18:25, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
Portion of ((tag)) testcases page.jpg
This seems to be as intended, i.e. the same as the documentation examples apart from the lack of border lines around the outputs..?
Sardanaphalus (talk) 21:36, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
PS Please do not think that I'm trying to "get away with" something. ("AGF", yes?)
What happens if you remove the "tag=" parts? That is what I mean when I say the first two unnamed parameters are already reserved; your addition forces the user to use the named tag parameter instead of the next unnamed parameter. That I consider "broken". In this case, adding a named parameter ("plain") is the better option, so one can use {{tag|div|plain=1}}, or maybe use the third (not a fan) unnamed parameter, so it becomes {{tag|div||plain}}. Short version: you cannot use the first unnamed parameter. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 21:48, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
  • "What happens if you remove the "tag=" parts? ..."
What happens if you remove "content=" and/or "params="?
No parameters need be "reserved" and if adapting {{{1}}} to handle an option "forces" the use of something else (in this case, "tag="), then there are many templates – perhaps most – "forcing" syntax onto users. No, what's "broken" is elsewhere and, I suspect, the source of the "forcing" that's going on. Why isn't "tag=" (and, for that matter, something like "type=" for {{{2}}}) required? (Or perhaps "state=", "expanded=", etc elsewhere aren't so requirable?) Short version: it's not that {{{1}}} cannot be used; it's that you think {{{1}}} should not be used.
Here's another possibility: thinking of templates such as {{str letter/trim}}, how about {{tag/plain|...}} (and so {{tc/plain|...}}, etc)..?
Sardanaphalus (talk) 00:06, 7 November 2014 (UTC)


Re Special:Diff/632014896/632022519, true, it's used once in core. So is "monospace, monospace", and the latter was added more recently. We've also got the latter in two WMF-deployed extensions (Translate and SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi), while "monospace, Courier" has 0 there. Anomie 00:35, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Further, your partial revert left the text not really making sense. If you're going to insist on "Courier", you should revert my whole edit. Anomie 00:36, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

dan clark[edit]

whay are you deleting my work m8 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doctorwhogeak (talkcontribs) 18:46, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

You are using copyrighted images on Commons, which are not allowed there. They will be deleted, and hence they are removed here. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 18:52, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Doctor Who[edit]

Hi, just wondering what "accessibility issues" you're talking about when you removed the "colspan" attributes in the List of Doctor Who serials article? This is simply a question of curiosity, given that both "colspan" and "rowspan" are used throughout the article. Thanks! AlexTheWhovian (talk) 10:19, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Spanning data cells over multiple rows or columns may throw of screenreaders. Using row-and colspans on header cells is a different story though; these can usually be left in place. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 10:59, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation! Should we then be removing spanning cells from tables such as this? AlexTheWhovian (talk) 11:11, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
No, they span an entire row, so no confusion there. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 11:13, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Being verbose[edit]

It is probably a good idea to be more comprehensive when replying to peoples' questions. At least link them to the relevant documentation. Gryllida (talk) 00:13, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

common.css border-spacing[edit]

The border-spacing that you added to the navbox class in common.css has altered the appearance of all the car timeline templates. Before they had small gaps between each row/col. Adding in style="border-spacing: 2px;" to each template would fix them but there are a few to do. -- WOSlinker (talk) 22:50, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Ugh... all hand-build tables suffer this. I'll revert that for now. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 23:04, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Module editing[edit]

Hi Edokter, Can you please update Module:Navbox on hiwiki? I am trying to edit it from many days but because of little understanding I couldn't do this. For this I think we need some other modules also! But I don't know how can I manage all these. In present case Navebox template don't work with Moudle. I have tried it at hi:template:Navbox/sandbox but it is giving only borders.☆★Sanjeev Kumar (talk) 03:45, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I myself am not very good with modules yet (as opposed to templates). So I'm afraid I can't help you. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 08:51, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
It's ok.☆★Sanjeev Kumar (talk) 07:40, 16 November 2014 (UTC)


(Undid revision 634081632 by Sardanaphalus (talk) Incorrect use: don't transclude throught the content= parameter.)

Why not..?

Sardanaphalus (talk) 19:38, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Because it does not show the [edit] [purge] links in the top right corner. |content= is for direct text only. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 20:19, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Tech News: 2014-47[edit]

18:28, 17 November 2014 (UTC)