Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association

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Requested page move of a stadium article with naming rights[edit]

Hi there. A recent requested page move of O.co Coliseum to Oakland Coliseum has been re-listed for another week, and thus may need input by participants here at WikiProject NBA.

At issue are WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NAMINGCRITERIA concerns that, if this move request passes, may eventually affect the naming of NBA arena articles: specifically whether to keep the current practice of renaming arena and stadium articles whenever there is a new sponsor (like renaming Rose Garden (arena) to Moda Center), or permanently keep them at long-term, stable names (like always keeping articles at, for example, the Oakland Coliseum Arena or Rose Garden (arena) titles instead of their current corporate titles) regardless of current or future changes to the naming rights. Please discuss at Talk:O.co Coliseum#Requested move 2. Thank you. Zzyzx11 (talk) 03:16, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Expert attention[edit]

This is a notice about Category:National Basketball Association articles needing expert attention, which might be of interest to your WikiProject. It will take a while before the category is populated. Iceblock (talk) 16:36, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Trey Burke/archive1[edit]

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Trey Burke/archive1 has been open for 2 and a half weeks without any substantive commentary.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:11, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

NBA infobox biography colours[edit]

I'm just wondering how do I change them, I've been meaning to change Iowa Energy's one to one more according of their current team colours (you know, after being acquired by the Memphis Grizzlies).Intruder007 (talk) 22:05, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

I think Module:Basketball color/data is the page that controls the infobox color schemes, although I'm hesitant to mess around those things myself. I'd recommend leaving a request at User talk:Frietjes. Zagalejo^^^ 16:26, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
just leave a clear edit request on the talk page and it will get done. Don't mess around with the template unless you know what you are doing. Rikster2 (talk) 19:24, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks! Intruder007 (talk) 20:43, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Lists of 40-point games[edit]

List of 40-plus point games by Carmelo Anthony was recently created. This led me to wonder what would be the notability criteria to determine

  1. How to determine which players should have such lists?
  2. Why is it 40 points, and not 50 or 30?
  3. Is this a case of WP:NOTSTATS? Unlike most Wikipedia lists, each entry does not have a link to relevant article in WP i.e. a list of All-Stars has a link to each All-Star player, a lists of seasons has a link to the respective season article, etc.

Bagumba (talk) 03:52, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

I'd be in favor of deleting this article, I think. I don't understand its purpose.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:10, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Just to let everyone know, List of 40-plus point games by LeBron James and List of 40-plus point games by Kobe Bryant also exist and there has been a long discussion on the latter's talk page. Furthermore, that list failed FLC due to similar concerns as Bagumba stated above. I'm in favour of merging those list (and perhaps lower the threshold to 50 based on List of National Basketball Association players with 50 or more points in a playoff game) to the players career achievements article, just like Michael Jordan or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's articleMT (talk) 12:01, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Sure, we can decide to AfD standalone lists, but the real question are whether these lists are notable and not a case of NOTSTATS, whether it is an embedded or a standalone list? Is there any value above merely stating a player had X number of 40-point games?—Bagumba (talk) 17:51, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia has lists on cricket players' centuries. Is this an equivalent thing? –HTD 12:35, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

I was aware of WP:OTHERSTUFF. My question is what is the notability criteria for determining which players should have these types of list. Would we have one for Kiki Vandeweghe, a two-time All-Star with 15 games of 40?—Bagumba (talk) 17:48, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

"Centuries" look like a pretty standard "arbitrary achievement" in cricket. Are forty-point games given similar stature in basketball? Why not 50-point games? Or triple doubles? Quadruple doubles?
I guess my point is: Is there a universally-accepted single-game basketball achievement that is similar to a "century"? –HTD 17:57, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
You are probably referring to a list like List of international cricket centuries by Sachin Tendulkar. I guess there would be less resistance from non-cricket people because at least there is a specific term for the achievement, century, it is limited to international matches, and most outsiders wouldn't belabor the point, knowing little about cricket. However, as a basketball editor, I am wondering what is the encyclopedic rational for having a list of games where a basketball player scored forty points. The real issue is whether it is NOTSTATS to enumerate every match into a list, when that list doesnt navigate the reader to an article with more information e.g. like a list of record holders would.—Bagumba (talk)
Yeah, something like that (I also chanced upon similar FLCs too back in the day). The thing is I dunno if basketball (or the NBA specifically) has this "arbitrary single-game milestone" that's universally accepted. If the NBA keeps an "official list" somewhere then we could say that there's some recognition. It's nothing about being "elite", but probably "an elite achievement done by a player (who may not be elite)." –HTD 19:03, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
With the Internet, even "official" has taken on a different meaning. Data is not limited to print anymore. Would anything that can be generated from a stat query at http://stats.nba.com "official" be enough to create a list? Or is that WP:OR? With most documents available via download and not necessarily limited by print costs anymore, data might be less discriminate than before. For example, the Lakers media guide at p.83 lists all 16 of Nick Young's career 30-point games. Is that notable enough to create a list? Wikipedia has WP:LISTN as list notability criteria, but is much ever discussed other than "Player X had his nth career Y-point game". And does an entire list of stats for each game needed, when the core achievement can be summarized in one or two sentences?—Bagumba (talk) 20:13, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
I'm guessing that anything to do with stats is not very much an official "achievement". I guess the only "official" awards the NBA gives out are things such as the MVP. There's no clearcut arbitrary milestone in the NBA just as cricket has with its centuries, or even perfect games.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Howard the Duck (talkcontribs) 20:35, 17 December 2014‎ (UTC)

Hi all, I was aware of information from WP:OTHERSTUFF and WP:NOTSTATS. However, my opinion is that articles of players who are the most elite scorers in NBA history, such as Carmelo Anthony, Kobe Bryant, and LeBron James could have an article about 40-plus point games. They are notable for being the most elite scorers in NBA history. However, I do know that there is no exact standard about whether any of these can exist, so I would be okay if they were deleted (I created the article on LeBron and Carmelo). I would question it though because Kobe Bryant's 40 point article has existed for over four years. Robert4565 (talk) 18:23, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Would my example of Vandeweghe above be considered "elite" enough. I'm not predetermined to delete, but I would like to know what are the criteria for articles you or others think should be created.—Bagumba (talk) 18:39, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
While Bryant's list has yet to be proposed for AfD, it did fail FL promotion because of its selection criteria at Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of forty-plus point games by Kobe Bryant/archive1.—Bagumba (talk) 18:57, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi Bagumba,

I'm sorry about removing your comment, it was not intentional. In my opinion, I think the criteria would be only for players who accomplish a very notable career achievement with scoring in NBA history. For example, LeBron was the youngest to 20,000[1][2], indicating that he will have a lot of 40-plus point games in the future, possibly even more than Kobe. Kobe has received attention from the media for his 40-plus point games. [3] [4] [5]. In 2009, he was number 3 in most 40-plus point games by an NBA player. Now that I think about Carmelo's article, he's not as notable as the others with scoring and has not had as much media attention. I would vote to delete Carmelo's article, but LeBron's and Kobe should go through AFD process. Robert4565 (talk) 03:41, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Bagumba, In my opinion, your example of Vandeweghe would not be considered elite enough because he has not received media attention for the amount of 40-plus point games he has had, nor will he likely be talked about by the media as an elite scorer. Robert4565 (talk) 03:46, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

@Robert4565: Since your have so far been the only editor of List of 40-plus point games by Carmelo Anthony, you can request a speedy deletion by placing {{Db-g7}} at the top of the article. Kobe and LeBron's it seems at least have arguable merits that WP:LISTN might be met.—Bagumba (talk) 22:04, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks to Robert4565 for voluntarily self-deleting Carmelo's list.—Bagumba (talk) 04:43, 20 December 2014 (UTC)