Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Skepticism

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WikiProject Skepticism (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject icon This page is within the scope of WikiProject Skepticism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of science, pseudoscience, pseudohistory and skepticism related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
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There is a disagreement at Penn and Teller: Bullshit! over whether to use quotation marks around the word "bullshit" alone. Since this article falls under this Wikiproject umbrella, you may want to weigh in on that Talk Page. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:18, February 17, 2014 (UTC)

The Horn Of Helm Hammerhand Must Sound In The Deep[edit]

Things are quiet at Helm's Deep-ak. It's walls are well defended. But Saruman and his servant Grima are busy in Isengard and they are marshaling their hordes outside our borders. They have devised numerous devilments that can penetrate our inner walls and they are now organizing them and putting them in place.

Saruman's army is an army bred of one purpose. To bring down our walls and instill their dark ways upon us all. Watchers are waiting at stationed positions and at the first intrusions alarms will sound and the beacons will shine.

There may come a time when the hordes will gain entry, overrun our defenses and do their worst, but this will not be that time and this will not be that day. This will be a time when we will draw our swords together and stand side by side!

Take warning! Be ready! The Horn will soon sound. Ptarmigander (talk) 16:03, 11 July 2014 (UTC)


I think you were looking for Wikipedia:WikiProject Middle-earth. This project is for rational, non-cryptic editing discussions. --Dkriegls (talk to me!) 04:55, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

__________________________________________________________ Dkriegls and other Wikipedians.. "Saruman's army is an army bred of one purpose. To bring down our walls and instill their dark ways upon us all." Here he is marshaling recruits and resources for the attack under the duplicitous guise of correcting misinformation. Ptarmigander (talk) 15:26, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

Looks like Deepak may have dropped out of the board. He is no longer listed. I suspect he was concerned it was turning out similar to how he reportedly got fleeced the year before by Intentional Chocolate's James Walsh when Chopra and Walsh set up The Consciousness Project a system of prizes and grants - to rival the Nobel Prize- for "consciousness" (mind over matter) studies.

Ishar only achieved 46% of their Raise Ishar indigogo goal. Being on flexible funding they get to keep that money and are still begging for more. They project a December 1st roll out now.

raised of $50,000 goal
0 time left
This campaign started on Sep 15 and closed on November 14, 2014 (11:59pm PT).
Flexible Funding
Campaign Closed
This campaign ended on November 14, 2014
Still probably good to keep one eye open Ptarmigander (talk) 19:27, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the follow up on this. I've already seen their very existence used as a talking point to try and prove that "their science" has been suppressed all along. Dkriegls (talk to me!) 22:02, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
Deepak is back.. he was missing for a spell but is now listed as a "champion" and "advisor" on the "board of curators". ISHAR is busy getting ready for going live in one day as per their announced Dec. 1st rollout. I think there will be some interesting developments as soon as there are ISHAR interactions with Wikipedia. Ptarmigander (talk) 16:42, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
Dec. 1st has come and gone and really nothing of interest is coming out of ISHAR. Until there is real interaction with Wikipedia I guess there is little to be done. Since ISHAR is an anti Wikipedia initiative organized by Tumbleman and ASKAHRC/the Cap'n -who are bad faith editors of the past- no real issue arises until/unless they interact once again with Wikipedia. ( from their website: "ISHAR’s researchers are all Wikipedians and are responsible for improving the encyclopedia..") Their hope is to rally new-agers, alternative med. and yoga and meditation practitioners to take up their cause. So far this exploitation seems only to be a way to solicit cash from these believers and practitioners and also get money from the disgruntled New Age Wikipedia Page holders that are unhappy with their treatment on Wikipedia. If ACEP and Deepak Chopra and Rupert Sheldrake etc.. etc., want to give these guys thousands of dollars under the guise of "correcting" Wikipedia I suppose that is a form of karmic justice especially if this money does nothing to change their bios or the pages of the so called alternative modalities which they make their bread and butter by. Jim Walsh of Intentional Chocolate has shown before what an easy mark these people can be. Until there are actually droves of new-agers using ISHAR materials to try to edit and raise Wikipedia's vibration. Heh. I suppose it is just an amusing sideshow. A tempest in a neti pot. Ptarmigander (talk) 16:09, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Well.. it turns out that ISHAR Wikipedian SAS81 has been blocked as a sock of the notorious Tumbleman. And user Askahrc/ the Cap'n is employed as the Archivist for ISHAR.Ptarmigander (talk) 16:59, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
ISHAR has as a goal providing formatted references and sources for pseudoscience and fringe topics that can then- by way of canvassing and organizing- be flooded into Wikipedia. This project has support of groups like ACEP and The Society for Psychical Research and individuals ranging from Deepak Chopra to Rupert Sheldrake, Robert Shwarz and Dean Radin. They also are supported by people that make money from Tapping (EFT), Life After Death, other "energy therapies" accupuncture, dowsing, homeopathy, kinesiology, mind over matter (magical intent) and what they call consciousness studies - which generally is the belief that since everything is consciousness and (they claim) consciousness is the primal substance of the universe that your (yes your) consciousness has godly superpowers and can do anything it sets it mind to do. This idea has a lot of appeal to the masses and that can sell a lot of products. No matter that it is wholly lacking in valid scientific support and is blatant hucksterism. In order to sell these pseudoscience ideas as products in the New Age market it is necessary to present them as 'the latest advancements of science". Part of a coming new age of "enlightened" "spiritual" science- "who's time has come". Wikipedia by not buying into this agenda stands in their way. Hence ISHAR. An organization cooked up by Wikipedia editors Tumbleman (currently banned) and The Cap'n and funded and helped in it's organization by Deepak Chopra. Here on ISHAR's page titled "Wikipedia -ISHAR as Wikipedia representative" they give an example of their formatting. They have chosen a decidedly non pseudoscience topic to showcase because their strategy is to masquerade as a non biased research and archiving "library". They like to call it (ISHAR) a "Library of Alexandria" as this gives their endeavor a lofty feel and appeals to the New Agers from whom they have been soliciting donations. The article they have chosen is "Caloric intake and aging: mechanisms in rodents and a study in nonhuman primates". This choice is likely because one of the ways that they are pushing pseudoscience is by exploiting the idea that human lifespan can be extended by means of various products, activities and therapies that they have mingled with their fantastic claims of psychic energy and "consciousness". These are commercial ventures and the goal is largely financial. The idea is that people can forestall aging by buying their books and products, taking their workshops, receiving or learning their therapies and believing in and spreading their pseudoscience. Fundamental to this whole movement is the belief that if enough people believe something it will become reality. This is a Chopra-esque and other new age entrepreneurial formula called "critical mass". A "global shift" It was originally called the "Hundredth Monkey theory". Thus the idea is that by changing Wikipedia they can change reality. I don't know if they believe this really or if it is just a sneaky way to create marketability of their products. I suspect it is an abundance of both.
In any case I encourage all Wikipedians to educate themselves about this initiative and any others like it. And because ISHAR specifically is a proxy and brainchild of an indefinitely blocked editor (Tumbleman) and other editor(s) masquerading as model Wikipedians while engaging in these anti Wikipedia activities I suggest pursuing any and all efforts and remedies to limit their activities in regard to direct editing. This would mean blocking editors that are obviously canvassed and organized through ISHAR (the so-called "ISHAR Wikipedians") who show a pattern of trying to cram "properly formatted" pseudoscience references into historically contested (battleground) fringe and alternative med. articles.
PS regarding the study: "Caloric intake and aging: mechanisms in rodents and a study in nonhuman primates" this is an old study and it has not been supported by further research. If you are interested please see here.. and here. Thank you for your time and consideration in reading this. Ptarmigander (talk) 18:57, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
This is both rather odd and unnecessarily alarmist. Yes, I work as an archivist with ISHAR, that's stated clearly on my user page. No, there's no conspiracy by immortal charlatans to overthrow Wikipedia, nor is ISHAR a proxy of a blocked editor, it's just a research archive, plain & simple. It seems unreasonable (understatement) to seek the preemptive banning of all personnel and visitors of ISHAR just because it offers the fairly standard function of formatting academic sources for citations, especially given that this function comes with a disclaimer emphasizing Wikipedia policies and ideals. The Cap'n (talk) 07:05, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
"It's just a research archive, plain & simple" - The Cap'n
Rome Viharo/Tunbleman- "WOW, Robert Schwarz - Hey ISHAR, why are you a benefit to the mind/body community? Hey ISHAR, just how are you a benefit?"
"What are you going to do with this information- I mean we need more than just another database .. don't we?" - Robert Schwarz Executive Director- Association For Comprehensive Energy Psychology (ACEP) and a founding "Curator" of ISHAR. Ptarmigander (talk) 17:21, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
"ISHAR will combat misunderstanding" "We are not passive observers but active agents.." "If facts are being misrepresented ISHAR will be there to ensure accurate information is available and defended."
"Take Emotional Freedom Techniques and Energy Psychology.. despite large amounts of research on the topic if you look at the Wikipedia page on EFT you would think there was only one person in the world that supported it.. that person was a whacko.. and that there wasn't a ton of information out there supporting it. When in fact there is a lot of research that supports it." "What can ISHAR do about that?" "ISHAR's library contains dozens of scientific articles on EFT and will convert them into Wikipedia-formatting for you."
"Every time someone tries to challenge the content on a Wikipedia page in some of these integrative studies like EFT they get slammed with ever changing lists of rules, the editors don't even follow their own guidelines, and then these folks are eventually harassed off the page." "Why would ISHAR succeed in getting facts properly represented where others haven't?"
"ISHAR is designed to change the paradigm of online discussion, including Wikipedia. ISHAR's staff are experienced Wikepedia editors who know how to work with hostile individual editors."
"WE know Wikipedia policies. Have the sources to Back up our statements and the determination to follow through. ISHAR confronts abusive editors by being better Wikipedians than they are."
"When bias and hostility take root on "controversial" pages ISHAR will be there to provide accurate information alternative approaches and fair discussion." "Ishar provides the reliable sources that that make Wikipedia informative and safeguards the ideals that make it neutral" "We will not compromise on either front."
"ISHAR will provide information. Correct misrepresentation of sources. Enforce content standards. Challenge double standards. Educate the public. Empower researchers. Lead discussions online. Uphold Wikipedia ideals. be neutral. Be reliable. Be free." -from the video-
Seems like it is intended to be more than "Just a research archive, plain and simple" as the Cap'n keeps saying. Looks more like an organized advocacy and attack.
As Bernardo Kastrup says in his solicitation for ISHAR donations.. it is an "epic archetypal battle". So I think the ISHAR people have done their share to create this "epic battle" idea.
I think the Cap'n is less than forthcoming about all this and the end result of ISHAR will be a huge waste of time. Both for the Wikipedia community and even for the so called "mind body" community which has helped fund the project.
The Cap'n has already been warned about wasting the Wikipedia community's time in areas related to pseudoscience and fringe science. And now he is at the helm of ISHAR which has been canvassing and organizing and soliciting donations for activities that will turn out to be much greater time wasting for Wikipedia editors.
While the proof is in the pudding so we can wait and see what -if anything- it comes to. One can hope that ISHAR and the Chopra Foundation get some common sense and abandon any plans to organize "ISHAR Wikipedians" to "combat misunderstanding" "Correct misrepresentation" "Enforce content standards". "Challenge double standards" and "Lead discussions online"- Which I think would be against Wikipedia standards and policies.
It seems to me that both Rome Viharo/Tumbleman and the Cap'n have not been honest in how they represent themselves and their ISHAR activities on Wikipedia compared to how ISHAR is represented off Wikipedia. Since the Cap'n has already been warned about time wasting activities in fringe and pseudoscience areas I believe that he should be closely watched since his organization- ISHAR- has made statements that clearly point toward it being determined to try to do so. Ptarmigander (talk) 19:55, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
Good point. Also, one, um, maybe strange question - what exactly is the title of this $&@* thread supposed to mean? I assume it is some sort of reference to something, but I have no clue what that something might be. John Carter (talk) 20:40, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
Please note my response on your Talk Page, Ptarmigander. I have no desire to derail this page any further by repeatedly explaining that when I say "If/when we interact with WP, we strictly adhere to WP policies and ideals," that is not secret code for "Our only purpose is to undermine and attack WP." The Cap'n (talk) 21:08, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for correcting this misleading quote. The Cap'n (talk) 21:33, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
Hi John Carter.. always a pleasure. Helm's Deepak was a word-play reference to the battle of Helm's Deep from Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings- The Two Towers of course. The Horn of Helm Hammerhand is a gigantic horn sounded at the approach of an enemy. And Saruman -and his servant Grima Wormtongue- would be organizers of the battle for Helm's Deep.
Grima (Wormtongue) was a humorous reference to SAS81 who was a paid representative of Deepak Chopra. SAS81 was always saying that he was an archivist for an entirely non biased non-pseudoscience "library" named ISHAR that was a model upholder of Wikipedia policies and a great gift and service to Wikipedia. It turned out that SAS81 was Tumbleman/Rome Viharo who was an indefinitely blocked editor masquerading as a reputable, highly principled contributor.
So the adherence to the highest Wikipedia standards and policies was a farce from the beginning. Hence Grima. Ptarmigander (talk) 22:27, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
Or it's an important value and there's a reason SAS81 is no longer working for ISHAR. Also, in the midst of comparing the people you disagree with on WP to the utterly evil, murderous hordes that must be slaughtered by the faction of Rohan (who I assume you identify with) and calling on editors to prepare for battle with these allegorical monsters, did you ever pause to check out WP:BATTLEGROUND? I highly recommend doing so. The Cap'n (talk) 23:02, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
Yes Wikipedia is not a battle ground and sounding the horn is not an attack.. it is a warning. A warning response to months of deceit by the main ISHAR Wikipedian SAS81, and to statements like when Deepak Chopra said - quite obviously referencing his involvement with funding ISHAR- "I am definitely going to pursue this correction of behavior of some very bigoted, predjudiced people on Wikipedia..." and when Bernardo Kastrup refers to ISHAR's activities as a "major archetypal battle" and says donating money to ISHAR is "your historical opportunity to join this battle". And when Robert Schwarz of ACEP says that "ISHAR will combat misinformation.." and ACEP says about ISHAR "If you continue to be frustrated by the way so-called “skeptics” have usurped Wikipedia, this is a way to bring power to bear on them". This doesn't sound like a "research archive, plain and simple" and when you, Cap'n, try to play "gotcha" with WP:BATTLEGROUND I don't think you have much of a leg to stand on. Ptarmigander (talk) 01:12, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Autism Research Institute[edit]

Proposal to cut and paste rewrite from Talk:Autism Research Institute/draft into blanked article. I think needed changes can be made after the cut and paste and that the draft is acceptable improvement of existing article. - - MrBill3 (talk) 18:32, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Flim-Flam! article expanded, DYK eligible for another 24 hours[edit]

I expanded the article on James Randi's classic skeptic book Flim-Flam! enough that it is eligible for DYK. The nomination would have to go up in the next 24 hours or so. Anyone familiar/interested in the DYK process? It would be nice to see one of the seminal works of skepticism by one of the vanguards of the movement on the front page. - - MrBill3 (talk) 13:22, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done. Nice job on the article, Mr Bill! I was not sure what hook you wanted to use, so for starters I went with "... that James Randi used his 1980 book Flim-Flam! to announce an annual award for "the psychic who fools the greatest number of people with the least effort"? There is the facility to add one or two alternate hooks if anybody has a better idea: to do this, just fill in the ALT1 field (and add ALT2 if necessary) in the nomination form at Template:Did you know nominations/Flim-Flam!.
Follow the progress of the nomination through the review process at Template_talk:Did_you_know#Articles_created.2Fexpanded_on_August_11 (seriously, you should bookmark it and watch it in case the reviewers ask questions). Be aware that there is a large backlog of articles awaiting review, so it may take some time. I might as well put in a plug here: any experienced editors reading this can help by reviewing a DYK nomination at Template_talk:Did_you_know; the instructions are there at the top of the page. Bill, I hope this helps, and congratulations again. --Gronk Oz (talk) 16:06, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Include atheist, freethought, humanist, secularist conferences?[edit]

Could someone or several people please help me here, to find a solution in demarcating the differences and similarities between skepticism, atheism, freethought, humanism, secularism etc. and whether all of those conferences should be included in the list of skeptical conferences or not? Thanks. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:53, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal[edit]

Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:48, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Gunung Padang[edit]

excuse me if this is the wrong place, but this article is in desperate need of help [1] Gunung Padang. It is full of claims of ancient pyramids dating back before the last ice ages. Someone involved in the Wikipedia should see at it. Please. For the love of God. (talk) 05:18, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Looking for a good editor[edit]


A journalist is inquiring about a response to claims by an "energy psychology" practitioner that WIkipedia is biased against "holistic therapies". He is apparently a Harvard-trained psychiatrist and he suggests that our entries Energy medicine and Emotional Freedom Techniques have deliberately excluded relevant peer-reviewed scientific research.

I'm looking for someone willing to engage on this topic. Preferably someone with appropriate scientific credentials themselves, but barring that, an excellent and level-headed Wikipedia editor with intimate knowledge of this area would be good.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 16:04, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

If no one else comes forward, I would be happy to talk to the journalist. I can be contacted through my user page. But I will defer to more active participants in this project if someone else would like to speak to the journalist. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk, how I edit) 16:25, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
@Jimbo Wales: Do you have any more specifics about the conflict? Nothing is obviously jumping out at me on either of the talk pages, so it seems like it would be hard to discuss the particular reasoning used.0x0077BE [talk/contrib] 16:53, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
I too am not seeing relevant peer reviewed research proposed for inclusion on the talk pages. Some specifics from the edit history might be useful in providing examples/context. Has this peer reviewed research been posted to the talk pages of the articles? Has content from this research been added then removed? Absent examples the claim seems rather vague. I would assume a journalist would have done some research into the editing and discussion of these two articles and be able to provide examples of edits, discussions and excluded research.
Of note the WP:Fringe theories/Noticeboard is considerably more active than this project and a good place to bring a discussion of the editing of these two articles and of interpretation and application of policy regarding alt/fringe medicine. Similarly the WikiProject Medicine talk page is another active venue where these topics and editing this kind of article are discussed. As the articles present biomedical information there has likely been vigorous application of WP:MEDRS. I have been active in quite a few discussions on reliable sources, MEDRS, alternative and fringe topics and would be happy to discuss the subject. I don't hold much in the way of credentials but I am fairly well versed in policy, decent at finding and assessing research and generally level headed. I can be reached on my talk page or via email.
I am willing to look at this peer reviewed research, post it to the talk pages and engage in the discussion and editing of the articles. This might provide the best possible understanding of the WP process to a journalist. - - MrBill3 (talk) 07:40, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
I'd be happy to help. I'm a scientist and peer reviewer for the Journal of Clinical Psychology. I am almost done with my PhD in Clinical Psychology at IIT (thesis proposed/collecting data) but am not an "expert" on either Energy medicine and Emotional Freedom Techniques. I have a solid background in assessing pseudoscientific literature and have previously read both articles. Like the above editors, I do not know of any peer-reviewed Wikipedia articles from respected journals being "deliberately excluded" from either article. Please feel free to direct the journalist here or to my talk page. And as mentioned above, direct links to the attempted suppression would make for a more informative discussion. Dkriegls (talk to me!) 03:31, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
@Jimbo Wales Dkriegls and other Wikipedians "It took the organizational strength of ACEP (Association for Comprehensive Energy Psychology) to change the APA’s stance on energy psychology. More recently, ACEP has focused its organizational strength on new goals. We are advocating for integrity in following the doctrines of fair play and neutrality in describing and evaluating EP (Energy Psychology), EFT (Emotional Freedom Techniques) and other integrative approaches on the web and in print. ISHAR stands for the same things. We are so pleased to have an ally in ISHAR."
"If you continue to be frustrated by the way so-called “skeptics” have usurped Wikipedia, this is a way to bring power to bear on them." So uh.. OK Yogis and meditators and alternatively concerned citizens.. get out your pocketbooks and help the attack on Wikipedia. Oh wait help the neutral fair minded "online digital library of Alexandria" correct imbalance at Wikipedia by "improving the encyclopedia in strict accordance to the spirit and letter of Wikipedia’s guidelines". "I.S.H.A.R. is a library dedicated to preserving ideas whose time have come". "Now launching December 2014".Ptarmigander (talk) 17:17, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
Being addressed as: "Jimbo Wales Dkriegls and other Wikipedians" sure makes this nerd all tingally inside. Dkriegls (talk to me!) 09:20, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
Tingly is good Dan.
The Society for Psychical Research is trying the same tactic.
"If we go about it in an orderly way I’m pretty confident that the encyclopedia will soon be in the top four or five rankings for searches on paranormal topics, along with other new projects that are about to launch, such as Deepak Chopra’s ISHAR and Rupert Sheldrake’s Open Sciences."
"I thought we needed a viable alternative to Wikipedia, where psi-related articles have become almost unreadable as a result of editing by sceptics."
"How do you think sceptics will react to this?"
“I think they’ll be challenged by it. For a long time now they haven’t had to do any real work. They can simply lift bits and bobs from the research literature that support their case, quote them out of context – job done. This will change the game entirely." "It’s inevitable that this will eventually impact on the media, which will make a big difference. Until now sceptics like Richard Wiseman have been able to say pretty much what they like on radio or TV, with the expectation of being taken seriously by programme producers and presenters. The opposition – psychic claimants, mediums, parapsychologists – are at a disadvantage because educated people don’t know about the scientific research that supports their position. But I can imagine situations where the sceptics start getting push-back from journalists who have taken the trouble to educate themselves. This will be an interesting development, to say the least!” Ptarmigander (talk) 09:23, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
Looks like this is the guy. Harvard Doc To Wikipedia: You’re Not Playing Fair On Alternative Trauma Therapy. "Their entries use a range of emotionally loaded and downright pejorative terms to describe Energy Psychology" Ptarmigander (talk) 21:26, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
Wouldn't many claims of that kind be within the scope of the James Randi Foundation million dollar prize? Why claim that Wikipedia is unbalanced when there is one million dollars waiting for the person who can show that energy healing really works? -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk, how I edit) 23:20, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
Tossing the Randi Challenge at the people that are pushing the Wikipedia We Have a Problem viewpoint will carry little or no weight in this issue. They feel they have tons of genuine sources in the form of valid studies and that skeptics are blocking them. Needless to say the instigators of these anti Wikipedia initiatives tend to have financial reasons for their actions. As stated above what is needed is highly competent and knowledgeable Wikipedia editors. As these pseudo-therapy/consciousness entrepreneurs organize public relations campaigns against Wikipedia and attempt to exploit the new age/ yoga/ meditation communities to their service more experienced editors (and possibly more and stronger administrative remedies) will be needed. IMHO. Ptarmigander (talk) 16:47, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
My suggestion would be a policy statement that restricts editors that come from organized anti-wikipedia sites and initiatives -especially ones that are set up and run by previously banned and/or known sock-puppet abusers that now are making money by organizing against Wikipedia (and getting funding from New Age and pseudoscience authors and instructors who are unhappy with their Wikipedia pages). I would just nip that in the bud by creating a general rule before it becomes a huge pain in the rear and time waster for more honest and rational editors.Ptarmigander (talk) 17:27, 1 December 2014 (UTC).
You mean like WP:MEAT and WP:CANVAS? 0x0077BE (talk · contrib) 17:50, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
Yes. As long as they can be well applied to these anti- Wik initiatives and other editors are informed about said initiatives so they know to apply these and other existing remedies. I also support publicly addressing (yes, I know, re-adressing) the issue and doing it artfully. The response By JW in regard to the Association for Comprehensive Energy Psychology petition is direct and I think well stated .. but it also is used against Wikipedia because it is so terse and brief. JW asked for some help in this issue of the Harvard Energy Pysch Doc's complaint. Since this issue is not currently subsiding and may be part of growing more organized anti Wikipedia efforts I think a further expanded policy statement coming from the horse's mouth would be helpful. That is simply my suggestion.. that he do something further about it himself. In any case I am fine with watching the battle continue. I do feel some concern for people that generally have good intentions getting swept up in the frenzy of anti Wikipedia views in part because I think more could be done to clarify Wikipedia's position for the public.. I think it is good to have this discussion. (And not just here in the back-waters). So thank you for replying.Ptarmigander (talk) 18:42, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
If, as I think you are indicating above, you are seeking some sort of clear policy statements, you might have more luck going to either the specific relevant policy page and requesting clarification of the policy or going to the Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) and proposing policy changes there. At this point, Jimbo's role in determining content and conduct policies here is rather negligible, as he has repeatedly said that in most matters not relating specifically to legal concerns, the community is in the position to determine policies and guidelines. John Carter (talk) 18:47, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
Hi John C. Long time. I am not proposing any policy changes. Don't think that is really needed. I am simply expanding some awareness and discussing the public relations aspects of Wikipedia in regard to The anti Wikipedia initiatives backed by ACEP, The Society for Psychical Research, Deepak Chopra, Rupert Sheldrake, Dean Radin, Craig Weiler, ISHAR - (which is Rome Viharo/ Tumbleman/ SAS81/ ASKAHRC / the Cap'n /who is ISHAR's Director of Archiving).
I guess a lot of hard working editors did not know that about "the Cap'n" when he was editing contributing and voting on Deepak's page.
I don't know if you still are swallowing that Archive-Library of Alexandria respectability stuff but regardless of that.. it seems nice to bump into you again. Ptarmigander (talk) 19:37, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
I thought you were making some specific policy proposals here:

"My suggestion would be a policy statement that restricts editors that come from organized anti-wikipedia sites and initiatives -especially ones that are set up and run by previously banned and/or known sock-puppet abusers that now are making money by organizing against Wikipedia (and getting funding from New Age and pseudoscience authors and instructors who are unhappy with their Wikipedia pages). I would just nip that in the bud by creating a general rule before it becomes a huge pain in the rear and time waster for more honest and rational editors.Ptarmigander (talk) 17:27, 1 December 2014 (UTC)."

I actually would myself probably support some such policy changes, if we could make it enforceable. Were there to be such changes, it would be really easy for such individuals to simply change their user name and say they aren't (whomever). I wouldn't necessarily oppose such a proposed policy change, if we could figure out a way to determine some reasonable limitations to it. So, for instance, a medical expert who happens to be a Christian and support the belief in some of the allegedly supernatural healings at Lourdes possibly shouldn't be automatically counted among such a group. Not saying that the alleged healings aren't "fringey," they are, but such a broad disqualification of experts would be problematic. John Carter (talk) 20:41, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
I am concerned here with organized pseudoscience anti Wikipedia efforts coming in particular from bad faith (deceptive)past editors and disgruntled page holders. To that end I think raising awareness is the primary way to go. A general statement or editorial about the subject would not hurt. There seems to be plenty of good policy in place. I will give the whole issue some thought and get back. Ptarmigander (talk) 21:18, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
Perhaps a well written, well linked and sourced essay that could be pointed to would be helpful? - - MrBill3 (talk) 05:42, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
Right. Something like that. Something to point to. Observing that Jimmy Wales' "You have to be kidding me" response to the ACEP/ petition has added weight to Wikipedia policy and to some degree informed the general public.. I was probably thinking possibly more could be done. Why continue to wrestle with the tail when you can more effectively take off the head. When Jimmy says "If you can get your work published in respectable scientific journals" This gives the alternative med and spirituality entrepreneurs and their supporters fuel because they think that there are plenty of studies in reputable journals and that there is plenty of public and professional acceptance of what they are pushing. When I see all the clamor against Wikipedia in this area I find myself wishing that there was more information available that further clarified this matter. Then there could be more satisfying ready responses when a bloatful Harvard doc making his living off of mixing pretend energy with psychology whines about Wikipedia unfairness to the media. At least people in the general public.. who are often duped in this area.. could better, and more easily, understand the wisdom of Wikipedia's stance. Ptarmigander (talk) 18:01, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Michael Shermer sexual assault allegations[edit]

I have initiated a discussion on this controversy given detailed mentions in multiple reliable sources.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 06:41, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Edit conflict at Wireless power[edit]

There is a disagreement developing at the article on Wireless power transmission, over the section on Nikola Tesla's contributions (or lack thereof). Additional opinions would be welcome. See Talk:Wireless power#Way too much Tesla. Thanks --ChetvornoTALK 04:44, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Fluoride toxicity Merger[edit]

Over at WikiProject Chemistry, we've been trying to resolve some of the merge proposals for articles in our scope. One of these is a proposed merger of Fluoride toxicity into Fluoride. There's not a strong consensus either way at the moment, but it seems agreed that Fluoride Toxicity is (or was) overly reliant on non-WP:MEDRS compliant sources. As it stands now, I think the main question is whether, once non-WP:MEDRS-sourced statements are removed, there will be enough left over to justify its own article. Would anyone mind taking a moment to go through and assess to what degree it will be possible to clean up the article without gutting it? 0x0077BE [talk/contrib] 13:18, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Proposed merger of Superfruit into Superfood[edit]

I have proposed the merger of Superfruit into an article in your project's scope, Superfood. Discussion is centralized at Talk:Superfood#Proposed_merger_of_Superfruit_into_Superfood. Thanks for your time. 0x0077BE (talk · contrib) 20:48, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Recommend watching Dean Radin and associated for a while[edit]

Radin and company have recently released a new study (in a physics journal which, while peer reviewed, has a history of publishing crackpots) in which they claim to demonstrate that meditation can influence the results of double-slit experiments. It's circulating all the new-age blogs right now. Probably worth watching out for; especially considering the "now with peer reviewed journal entry" connotations. Simonm223 (talk) 17:41, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Wasn't this a year ago? When he reported weak replication of the 2012 PHYSICS ESSAYS "Consciousness and the double-slit interference pattern -Six Experiments"? Ptarmigander (talk) 02:11, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the update. Goblin Face (talk) 14:58, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Expert attention[edit]

This is a notice about Category:Rational Skepticism articles needing expert attention, which might be of interest to your WikiProject. It will take a while before the category is populated. Iceblock (talk) 19:25, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Reliability theory of aging and longevity[edit]

This AfD could use some input from knowledgeable editors here. Thanks. --Randykitty (talk) 18:13, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Hum[edit]

The above RfC relates to the basic topic area of this project, and all informed opinions are welcome. John Carter (talk) 19:35, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

It's hard enough keeping up with all the pseudoscience edits to the namespace...[edit]

...and then this happens, followed by this. --Dkriegls (talk to me!) 13:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Those edits should probably be made invisible, in case that is some kind of prank on whoever's phone number that is. 0x0077BE (talk · contrib) 04:45, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
Good point. I didn't even think of that. All I can think is that she found me because I patrol the List of exorcists page. I do psychology by day and come here to not do psychology. Which is why I brought it to this talk page. Anyone thinking of being an ass, please don't. But I don't have the energy at the end of the day to call the number. John Carter's response was right on, but I doubt there will be any follow up from her. --Dkriegls (talk to me!) 06:34, 24 December 2014 (UTC)