Talk:Names and titles of Jesus in the New Testament

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November 2004 – November 2007

Light of the World

Light of the World (Jesus) redirects here, but this article doesn't have anything about this topic. --62.214.229.215 (talk) 19:20, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

NPoV and sources?

I and not sure this article represents a neutral point of view. It seems like the entire article is spent trying to provide evidence against the possibility that Jesus considered himself divine. Certainly this is one possibility, but it seems like the article takes too strong of a position. I find it a little humorous that one subsection explains why in the phrase "my lord and my God," "lord" does not necessarily mean "God," but does not attempt to explain why "God" does not necessarily mean "God." Also, this article seems very highly dependent on the scholar Geza Vermez. Is there any way the sources could be diversified? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.252.254.20 (talk) 06:43, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Comment to above

I, too, notice a concerted effort to minimize the divinity of Jesus. Geza Vermez is an example.

Word of God

The page excludes the important title "Word of God." --Ephilei (talk) 23:40, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Personal name

A friend of mine once said that in Jesus' day he would have been known (full name) as Yeshua bin Joseph ha Dovidl (spelling is, I think, as how he had it), literally, "Jesus (/Joshua), son of Joseph, of the house of David". Would that form of name construct have been used in Jesus' day, or would just the simple name of "Yeshua" (one name only) be more plausible? (I'm thinking having another name as a distinguishing mark isn't all that uncommon, for some of Jesus' contemporaries were "James, the son of Zebedee" (which leads me to believe that the "son of Zebedee" (bin Zebedee?) was used to distinguish from the other Jameses around at the time) and "Judas Iscariot" - seeing as how "Judas" was/is a common name of Jews at the time, a further identification makes sense, but, as far as I know, Jesus/Joshua was common too, which makes sense that the prophet from Nazareth would have a "more full" name (if you want, a "last name") than just "Jesus". Is Yeshua bin Joseph ha Dovidl likely? --Canuckguy (talk) 13:59, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Christology of the Old Testament

The article should maybe point out that the Old Testament has been a source of christology just as well. There is a notable work on the subject by Ernst Wilhelm Hengstenberg. ADM (talk) 20:51, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Christology as study?

The introduction to this page says that christology is the study of the names. This seems to be false on its face, since all the theology I've studied purporting to be christological has dealt with the nature of Christ rather than names. If the study of the names is a branch of christology, though--which is absolutely plausible--shouldn't the linked christology page have some material on that? In any event, clarification is probably in order. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.114.162.115 (talk) 07:13, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Misquote 1 John 5:7

Please remove or correct this personal opinion. The trinity doctrine is not related to this article and is a matter of doctrinal argument.

Trinity is not found anywhere in the scriptures.

There is no God the Father, God the Word and God the Holy Spirit. It is the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit. It is a misquote.

The fact is that this verse says that they are one and not three, not three in one.

Word

1 John 5:7 says there are three persons (not one person) in the Godhead—also called “Trinity”—(1) God, the Father; (2) God, the Word (Jesus); and (3) God, the Holy Spirit. John writes: ‘‘“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”‘‘

trichagc

Names of Jesus

Please add - 1. Wonderful, 2. Counselor, 3. The Mighty God, 4. The everlasting Father and 5. The Prince of Peace.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

trichagc

Yeshua | Yahshua, PLIM

I removed this section:

The original Aramaic (or late Hebrew) name for Jesus is Yeshua—a contraction of yehÖshÙa (Joshua), help of Jehovah + yÀh, Jehovah + hÖshïa, to help." ( http://www.plim.org/JesusOrigin.htm ) In Hebrew, YESHUA is from the Hebrew YESHA—Yud Shin Ayin—meaning Help, Salvation, Deliverance. (Alcalay, R. The Complete Hebrew English Dictionary. Jerusalem: Massada. 972); also http://www.hebrewbabynames.com/item.cfm?itemid=292 ) The more accurate name for Jesus, derived from YHWH, may be spelled: Yahshua, which means "Yahweh is salvation," or "God is salvation."

Its sources are articles written by religious groups that make pretty weak linguistic claims and present no proof. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 11:06, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Yeshua

I came to this page after noticing that Template:Jesus has ישוע in its header image. ישוע is the unvocalized Hebrew spelling of Yeshua. As far as i know, it is not certain that Yeshua was indeed Jesus' Hebrew name. It may also have been Yeshu (ישו), Yehoshua (יהושוע or יהושע) or maybe something else entirely.

The "Personal name" section here does nothing to establish with any certainty that Yeshua was indeed his name. It simply describes the names Yehoshua and Yeshua and the possible linguistic relation between them. This information is reasonable and well-referenced, but it does not necessarily relate to the Jesus of New Testament.

The section should say clearly that the true name is not known - correct me if i'm wrong.

And Hebrew spelling ישוע should be removed from Template:Jesus. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 11:19, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

It is also the standard spelling of "Jesus" in all Aramaic dialects within two centuries (with the only exception of Christian Palestinian Aramaic, where the convention is to transliterate the Greek "Iesous"). The scholarly consensus is based upon ossuary inscriptions, written documents, and what is known about the language from that time period, itself. The only individuals who dispute this vehemently are some individuals in the Sacred Name Movement, a fringe group. אמר Steve Caruso 18:47, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Maybe, but i don't see this consensus expressed in the article here. Am i missing something?

I only know Biblical Aramaic well, and you seem to know more Aramaic than i do, so could you edit the article so it will clearly express this consensus?

And what about Yeshu? --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 08:40, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

The name ישוע (Yeshua`, or as it was probably pronounced in Jesus' lifetime Yeshu`) was the post-exilic Hebrew version of the name "Joshua" and occurs in the Hebrew Bible at Ezra 2:2, 2:6, 2:36, 2:40, 3:2, 3:8, 3:9, 3:10, 3:18, 4:3, 8:33; Nehemiah 3:19, 7:7, 7:11, 7:39, 7:43, 8:7, 8:17, 9:4, 9:5, 11:26, 12:1, 12:7, 12:8, 12:10, 12:24, 12:26; 1 Chronicles 24:11; and 2 Chronicles 31:15, and also in Aramaic at Ezra 5:2. In Nehemiah 8:17 this name refers to Joshua son of Nun. All these occurrences were commonly translated into Western languages identically to the name "Jesus", until the Renaissance, when some Bible translators (especially Protestants) went back to the original Hebrew, and so chose to render the same name as "Jeshua" in an Old Testament context, but left it as "Jesus" in the New Testament, so creating a somewhat artificial distinction... AnonMoos (talk) 05:08, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Informative or Evangelism?

I've been noticing that several edits to this page have been made lately, the vast majority of them being by an unregistered user with the IP address 66.93.140.42 and all of them (as far as I can see) being made as additions under the "Other titles in the New Testament" heading. Currently there are 89 subheadings. At what point do we draw the line? It almost seems as if we keep going, we're going to end up quoting the entire New Testament. Additionally, the user making additions seems to have a kind of evangelical agenda as seen by the following specific edits.[1][2][3][4] So what do others think? Is this informative or just evangelism? Euphgeek (talk) 19:21, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Writing as one who completely agrees with the agenda of the four edits you link, I have to agree with you: these are evangelism not reporting; they're not without controversy even within Christianity; and they're about Jesus' nature, not name (it's in the wrong place, even if admissible by other measures). Jackrepenning (talk) 18:29, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

NPOV

I've removed what seem to me to be a few instances of evangelism - some from the IP 66.93.140.42 mentioned just above. They seem to be stating some Christian beliefs as fact, rather than from an NPOV. I might have misunderstood though, and they might not have been meant like that, so I'll hold off for a while and see what others think. Oscroft (talk) 20:13, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Actually, some of it seems quite blatant - removed a bit more today. Oscroft (talk) 06:36, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Aye I've just pulled down a few things, too, but I find myself a bit pinched for time to continue. This article needs a thorough culling of 100% POV material an re-writing of that which is POV but could be better put. Much of this could be expressed in a constructive and NPOV way without preaching. אמר Steve Caruso 14:46, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

I've removed a LOT of preaching, but there's more. I'm a little confused about The_Thadman's note in recent edit summary: "True God: I also hate to say it, but declarations of divinity as fact doesn't adhere to WP:NPOV." The article reads, "The Bible says that Jesus is the true God" and gives the citations. The Bible may be wrong, but the very title of the article is Names and titles of Jesus in the New Testament. I don't see how we can go all the way through the article and be more neutral (assuming the preaching/teaching comments are gone). Since I work on the article, please give me your suggestion. Thanks, Afaprof01 (talk) 22:46, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I agree - saying "The Bible says that Jesus is the true God" and providing a reference that supports the assertion seems entirely factual and NPOV to me. Oscroft (talk) 16:06, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Yahshua-Yahshuah

See Talk:Yahshua#Merge regarding a proposal to merge the articles Yahshuah and Yahshua. --AuthorityTam (talk) 21:27, 19 February 2010 (UTC)