User talk:Betty Logan

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Box Office

Sorry to bring this to you again. Maybe it's just an old film thing. I'm looking at Die Hard. I've got:

• The Numbers which reports its total worldwide gross as $139.1 million, making it the eight-highest grossing film of the year
• BOM which says its $140 million (not a vast difference) but reports it as the tenth-highest grossing film, though this seems to be because it is included Dead Poets Society (which was released in 1989, wtf?) and Cocktail (here at least it seems to include a foreign box office for Cocktail where The Numbers does not.

HOWEVER,

• Our own page at 1988 in film makes it the tenth-highest grossing film based on including A Fish Called Wanda, while also including Cocktail. Both Numbers and BOM omit a foreign gross for Wanda, and the figure seems to come from a print Variety article I can't check.

It's all a bit frustrating tbh, since it prevents a solid analysis of the figures, and I actually like that stuff. Do you have any advice how to proceed? Thanks Darkwarriorblake / SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE! 14:38, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Pre-1990s reporting of worldwide grosses was very patchy at best because the film industry was just so US-centric. As you say, The Numbers doesn't log the gross for A Fish Called Wanda or Coctail but we do have figures from alternative sources. The BOM figure for Coctail appears very realistic to me, because Tom Cruise films have traditionally always been bigger overseas (just compare it to the same year's Rain Man). Likewise for A Fish Called Wanda, there are two Variety sources listed at A_Fish_Called_Wanda#Reception which state it grossed $115 million outside the United States; coupled with the US gross it would be looking at ~$180 million. This data was added to the article by Sudiani; I am familiar with this editor and they are methodical, diligant and honest, so if they tell me that is what Variety says then I am inclined to trust them. The figure is very plausible because A Fish Called Wanda is a British film and it is nearly always the case that under half the gross comes from the US market. On the basis of that both Cocktail and A Fish Called Wanda grossed more than Die Hard; forget about Dead Poet's Society, the BOM charts are a lost cause. Betty Logan (talk) 15:18, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the info Betty, and yes it is a shame about BOM. It being accurate did use to make things a lot easier. Darkwarriorblake / SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE! 15:26, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Although you need a subscription to log in, you can hopefully see the thumbnail of the advert showing the $115 million overseas gross for Wanda here.[1]Sudiani (talk) 15:30, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

No, it's too small, but I will take your word for it. Also $60 for a months access? What are Variety smoking? Darkwarriorblake / SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE! 16:12, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Hi Betty, sorry to bother you again. I'm working on Aliens and the BO is all over the place. The Numbers is seemingly more precise but it also treats re-release box offices as if they were part of the original figure (despite the obvious inflation parity problem) and so is not necessarily reliable to get an image of the figure at the time of its release. BOM on the other hand is like 50 mill off the Numbers figure, and no re-release is going to have made 50 mill, even over nearly 40 years. I can include both figures but the difficult part is that where Aliens falls in terms of highest grossing films of the year. It can be as high as third, low as fifth globally, seems to be seventh domestically. I've trawled through the New York Times and LA Times as they're usually good for industry info at that time but despite Aliens' relative success it doesn't seem to get brought up a lot compared to Top Gun and Crocodile Dundee. Darkwarriorblake / SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE! 08:46, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Worldwide figures prior to the 90s are very sketchy. All I can say for sure is that Top Gun was #1 and Croc Dundee was #2 for 1986. If you look at the global chart on BOM you will notice most of the foreign figures are missing. It is entirely possible Karate Kid 2 made enough internationally to overtake Aliens, and Eddie Murphy was huge in the 80s so I wouldn't be surprised if The Golden Child ended up as #3 for that year. If you check out the chart I constructed at List_of_highest-grossing_films#High-grossing_films_by_year, there is a reason why it is called High-grossing films by year and not Highest-grossing films by year. The simple reason being that there is too much missing data to be sure of anything. I wish I could be more help, but 20th century box-office has more gaps than the fossil record! Personally I would just stick with the domestic rankings for that time period. Betty Logan (talk) 20:19, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Nuts. Fair enough. The inconsistency is frustrating. Finding info for Ghostbusters in 84 and Back to the Future in 85 was relatively easy. It doesn't help that the two box office sites also differ in counting films released in previous years but that made money in the following year against the films actually released in that year. Thanks for your advice. Darkwarriorblake / SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE! 22:30, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Aquaman

The Box Office Mojo page for Aquaman has grosses listed for two days before its domestic release. Is this an error?

It appears to be the preview gross. The Numbers has the exact same gross. Betty Logan (talk) 23:46, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Are they typically counted as separate days? I don’t believe I’ve seen this elsewhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.23.249.111 (talk) 17:45, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Thursday evening previews are usually included with the weekend figures, but if they are held before then they are usually counted separately. If there is a mistake it is at the distributor's end because the figures are reproduced on other trackers. Betty Logan (talk) 18:05, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

If that's the case then it has impact on whats' regarding as Aquaman's first/second weekend for the purposes of lists on List of highest-grossing second weekends for films and List of highest-grossing superhero films. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:241:300:B610:6529:90FB:2B5C:7897 (talk) 22:10, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

If that is the case you should initiate discussions on the talk pages at those articles. Betty Logan (talk) 22:42, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, the Aquaman page didn't show those values before the Box Office Mojo redesign. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:241:300:B610:71A2:6391:464A:DBB4 (talk) 04:04, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

These figures also appeared on the old Box Office Mojo: [2]. Betty Logan (talk) 22:37, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Interestingly enough Box Office Mojo counts the December 21 weekend as the opening weekend for the purposes of the biggest opening weekends list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:241:300:B610:D5EE:CB01:3B9C:1932 (talk) 16:51, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Motion Picture Association's logo

• File:Motion Picture Association Globe logo.svg
• File:MPAA Logo.svg

Yes, these logos look identical at a glance. But there are clear differences between. Please check the Motion Picture Association official website[3]. Wikipedia should provide the correct information. I hope it will help you.--LogoSince2020 (talk) 13:19, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Even if there are minute differences you still don't need two images in the article. The logo is not subject to any commentary in the article and is only used to visually identify the topic. The most recent will suffice and the correct place for it is in the infobox. Betty Logan (talk) 20:24, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Please check the difference between the two logos. I'm confident that Wikipedia should not continue to offer fake logo.--LogoSince2020 (talk) 03:16, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Motion Picture Association film rating system

Your edit here perfectly captured the intent of my edit. It's much clearer now, so thanks for that. I swear I spent like 5 minutes trying to see the difference between the two nearly identical lists. Anyway, pleasure meeting you; catch you about! -- ShinmaWa^(talk) 17:01, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

New world snooker player profiles

Hi Betty I want go talk to you about the above. Will you hit me back ?. Cheers 178.167.243.22 (talk) 21:24, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Betty I want to speak to you about 6 red events will you answer me back please ?. 92.251.247.15 (talk) 17:18, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Sure what's on your mind? Betty Logan (talk) 17:34, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	I just cannot believe your user page does not exist and you are a pending changes reviewer. I would like to thank you with this. Cupper52 (talk) 18:52, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you

You are one of the few editors of Wikipedia who were always, ALWAYS very kind. For that I am eternally grateful to you.

Wishing you the best always Betty Logan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2405:205:108B:E62E:6879:C83E:6C66:B479 (talk) 22:01, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Discussion on my talk page

Hi Betty. You were involved in a previous thread (October, 2017) about an IP who was said to be adding unsourced information to film articles. You might have an opinion of your own to add at this thread on my talk page, concerning editing of horror film articles by someone who is probably the same person. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 23:26, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

I only have a vague recollection of this editor so I doubt I will be able to offer something that will connedt the editors but I will try and take a closer look at this tomorrow when I am fresh. Betty Logan (talk) 04:29, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Message to Betty Logan

Hey Betty. Boushenheiser said Amblin Entertainment kicked off in 1981 with the movie Continental Divide. Might be false. Please tell Betty to undo three changes, since newspapers verified Amblin existed in the 70s. --2600:1700:4300:2C8F:89EA:72E4:97DB:14B5 (talk) 15:15, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

The older revisions stated it was founded in 1970. --2600:1700:4300:2C8F:B570:E32D:9077:C393 (talk) 00:04, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

A company legally exists from the time it is incorporated. Surely this is easy to establish through public records? In fairness neither date is valid without a source. Betty Logan (talk) 02:32, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Intolerance

.

Can you explain why you reversed my edit on Intolerance (film)? You changed it back to an overly confident and demonstrably erroneous statement, which seems like a peculiar choice, to say the least.

I thought my edit summary explained this adequately. The 2K restoration is just a further iteration of "The Official Thames Silents Restoration", already covered in the article. All the details you added are already included in the section. Your edit added duplicate material to the article. Betty Logan (talk) 07:09, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Adding a graphic/photo to a talkpage for people to see

Hi Betty how are you ?. I want to add a graphic to clear up a debate on a Snooker talkpage, it's a photo actually but I only know how to add references on wikipedia. Instead of a reference I want to put up the photo. Can you help me out please if I give you the info ?. Kind Regards 89.204.239.215 (talk) 13:57, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

You need to upload images. If it is not going in the article itself I would suggest uploading it to https://postimages.org or https://imageshack.com and then linking to it from the talk page. Betty Logan (talk) 15:02, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

If I send it to you the links through a <ref> link can you upload for me please ?. 19:39, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

I can't upload an image I don't own to Wikipedia servers. Copyrighted images need a fair use rationale. And how would you send it to me, anyway? The most straightforward method is to use the postimages.org hosting website if you just want to use the image in a discussion on the talk page. Betty Logan (talk) 10:49, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Ronnie O'Sullivan's first maximum break.gif

⚠

Thanks for uploading File:Ronnie O'Sullivan's first maximum break.gif. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 18:39, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

The Masters Snooker

Hi Betty I want to add the word "The" to the Snooker season's calendar for The Masters but Lee and Nigej keep removing it over some nonsense about consensus on a talk page, because they are always in agreement and won't listen to anyone else. Do you think the event should be titled as "The Masters" on the snooker season's pages ?. It looks silly just being labelled as Masters imo. Plus in players career finals it is in as "The Masters". Can you give me your thoughts here please ?. Regards 92.251.216.106 (talk) 16:31, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

The article name itself is Masters (snooker), not "The Masters (snooker)". You argument is not without merit (see https://wst.tv/tournaments/masters/) but you are tackling a symptom rather than the cause. The naming conventions across other snooker articles should follow the convention at the main article IMO. Betty Logan (talk) 08:36, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

So are you saying it should be Masters ?. It should be "The Masters". Just because it was opened as Masters (snooker) does that make it correct ?. How do I change it to "The Masters" please ?. Can you help me they said I need consensus. Would you be happy to call it "The Masters" ?. 92.251.151.149 (talk) 23:30, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

What I am saying is that name changes should be handled at the main article, not on other snooker articles. You should follow the rules outlined at WP:RM#CM and propose a rename at Masters (snooker). Betty Logan (talk) 01:00, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Categorizing someone as American or otherwise in the lead

Hey, Betty. Regarding something like this, which I reverted, what should be cited to challenge such an edit? It seems similar to how we went with "American" for the Avatar (2009 film) article.

Please don't ping me if you reply. I'll check back for a reply. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 00:10, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

MOS:ETHNICITY is probably the guideline you want. Jolie's Cambodian citizenship is not an integral part of her identity. Betty Logan (talk) 00:44, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. I couldn't remember what guideline to cite. I've cited MOS:ETHNICITY times before, including at the Katherine Johnson talk page: Talk:Katherine Johnson/Archive 1#Nationality in the lead: Use of "African American". Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 01:31, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Onward box-office flop

Do you think that Onward flop at box-office? 2600:1702:1E60:B230:285B:BA74:BE1A:9D0D (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:03, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

It is irrelevant whether I think it is a flop or not. Do sources describe it as such? Betty Logan (talk) 22:24, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

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Comparison tables

Hello, I am SlitherioFan2016. (I was renamed to DL6443 on 2 July 2020) As I have been formally permitted to edit content ratings articles, I am possibly thinking about creating a comparison table with more colour values in line with accessibility standards in my draft space, on top of my new duties as a recent changes patroller. I was wondering whether you would still be in on this? Thanks DL6443 22:30, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

This issue is resolved. The color standard Wikipedia uses is quite clearly detailed here: H:Colorblind. Any "standard" that falls outside of this guideline is a MOS violation. If you start your disruptive behavior again your block will need to be reinstated. Betty Logan (talk) 05:23, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

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IMDb

Betty, the article I've been wanting to do for a long time now is a TV show and I remember that you are very involved in film and television. It's been a very long time since I was involved in any of those discussions, but I seem to recall that IMDb was frowned upon as a reliable source. Is that correct, or can it be used as a source for certain things? Huggums537 (talk) 04:54, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

IMDB is not permissable as a source. The relevant guideline is at WP:RS/IMDB. Betty Logan (talk) 04:17, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Okay, that's what I thought. Thanks for refreshing my memory. Huggums537 (talk) 13:55, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Lobbob

Hi Betty, just wondering if took note of this? And if you had free moment, if you could reply to this? Thanks - wolf 03:33, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Pirates

Why did you undo my edit? The infobox was broken and I fixed it. Rupert1904 (talk) 19:30, 16 January 2021 (UTC)