Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of KTVX translators

List of KTVX translators

List of KTVX translators (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) - (View log)

Non-notable. WP:NOT a directory. See also this discussion. I could be persuaded to change my mind if more info is provided on the subject, though.

• Delete There is no benefit is copying a long directory of TV repeaters out of an FCC database to make a Wikipedia article. Just list the FCC database as a "See Also" in an article on the station. There is a lack of multiple sources, and even the FCC list is a mere directory listiong. Edison 22:34, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
• I flagged this as {{mergeinto}} KTVX just a few days ago; this AFD nomination seems to have replaced that tag. You're correct that there's no particularly compelling reason for this to have its own article separately from the existing article on the television station proper — but it's perfectly legitimate content to have in the television station's main article. I've already expressed my opinion on the talk page that this should be merged rather than deleted. I don't mean to suggest that my opinion should be prioritized over anyone else's, but Wikipedia:Merging and moving pages does indicate that a merge proposal should be left open for at least two weeks, and I only just flagged this five days ago. Therefore, I would request that this AFD be suspended until January 31 so that the merge debate can run its proper procedural course. I have no objection to deleting it if that's the consensus after the proper two weeks have ended. Bearcat 23:00, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
  • I put the merge tag back. I had removed it because I thought a deletion discussion would impact the article more, and I didn't wait for the merge discussion to run its course because it was heading towards a unanimous merge vote. I haven't seen any reason to keep the info, save for interesting translators in Nevada. Xiner (talk, email) 04:00, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
• Comment - of the same class are KBYU-TV/List of KBYU-TV translators, KSTU/List of KSTU translators, KJZZ-TV/List of KJZZ-TV translators, KUCW/List of KUCW translators, KSL-TV/List of KSL-TV translators, and KUED/List of KUED translators. All of these articles were made by User:Dhett who is active on Wikipedia. I left notice on his talk page. Whatever happens to this article should happen with all of them. Cool Hand Luke 09:38, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment (edited) I've listed all these pages and placed a link to this page per WP:IAR (i.e. no formal tags), so we'll be held up by dhett's absence only. Xiner (talk, email) 15:44, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete As I explained in the merge discussion, CVS doesn't list all the cities it does business in because it is trivia, which Wikipedia doesn't allow. This list is also very likely to be original research, and if it's not, then there is a published source that we can link to, instead of hosting the info ourselves. It'd be more authoritative, too. Even KTVX's own website doesn't have this list. Xiner (talk, email) 04:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
• Strong Keep - Thank you, Cool Hand, for bringing this to my attention. I am the author of all of these lists, so I will provide my defense. It has been customary to include a list of translators in each television article; however, the Salt Lake City television market is unique in that their primary stations have anywhere from 50 - 120 translator stations, as opposed to fewer than 25 translators in any other market. When I initially began adding the translators, it quickly became clear that the list was too unwieldy for inclusion in one article. I sought the advice of fellow members of WikiProject Television Stations and was advised that the best way to do this would be as a separate list that the main article would reference. I believe that it is appropriate to keep the list of translators, as is the custom for TV articles, and it is appropriate to keep it as a subarticle, as it was never meant to be a standalone article, but rather an adjunct to the main article. The data is authoritative, having come from the FCC, but is not in an easily referenced source in its original form. Also, while KTVX doesn't provide a list of translators on its website, the other stations do. The FCC data is self-reported, but it is not advertising; it is instead a mandatory report as part of their license renewal application. I welcome input on how to better present this information, but firmly believe that the information is relevant and notable, but too bulky for inclusion in the main article. dhett (talk • contribs) 05:34, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Also, I will not have access to an Internet connection for the next couple of days and so, will not be available to respond to questions, so although AfDs are generally resolved after five days, I request a couple of additional days so that I can answer questions before any action is taken in this matter. Thank you. dhett (talk • contribs) 06:14, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment dhett has expressed difficulty in reaching the internet for the next couple of days, so we should wait, but here are my thoughts right now. 1. Even if the data are kept, they should be trimmed to a format like City, State (callsign), since the channel number is the same as that in the callsign, with the text linking to the corresponding FCC page. 2. I still don't see why we can't just mention a few of the more notable translators -- if a store has only a couple of locations, then we would list all the locations, but if it has over 100, then no one would argue we should keep them all. 3. If other stations' websites list their translators, then we should simply link to that. If they don't, see point 2 (someone could also set up a webpage or publish the info somehow). Xiner (talk, email) 15:17, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
• In the rampant spirit of WP:IAR, I second Bearcat's suggestion to suspend AfD for at least 5 days. This will probably permanantly table the deletion, but if—upon closer inspection and discussion at Talk:KTVX#Merge notice—we determine that the sub-articles irredeemably violates policy on original research or something else, we can reopen this AfD. Cool Hand Luke 01:29, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
  • We have most if not all of the facts available, which are not much different from how they appeared before the nomination, and it's not clear that this discussion is going anywhere anyway. I thus would like this deletion process to take its course. We can always extend a discussion. I also believe the merge discussion can take place simultaneously. I just want everyone to contribute their thoughts, because before this deletion discussion no one was saying much at all, as evident in that merge discussion. Xiner (talk, email) 01:43, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
• Comment It should also be noted that one centralized deletion nomination is a better place to discuss this issue than having various separate merge discussions. Xiner (talk, email) 04:33, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
  • ...which is why I left notes on all of the pages directing them to the centralized merge discussion that was already in progress. It's not clear to me whether this violates wikipedia policy or not, and I think discussion will be served if we remove the pressure of imminent deletion, especially since the primary contributing editor will have limited access the next few days. I would like to keep the deletion option open, but if no other editors agree, I'll have to vote keep to cement the fact that there is no consensus. Let's try a good faith effort at consensus first, eh? Cool Hand Luke 22:30, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
    • Cool Hand Luke, I've said more than once that this discussion should be extended. I'm not trying to rush this through, only saying that it's attracted more posts than the merge discussion, which had three participants I think. Xiner (talk, email) 22:45, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
      • There was a pageful of commentary on the notice before you nominated it (which, by the way, was before anyone thought to ask the original contributer about it). I don't mind the nomination, but in light of the good faith and effort that User:Dhett put into properly presenting this info (by asking the relevant wikiproject)—data which is always included for other stations as a matter of policy—I think that the only decent response is to ask for this nomination to be withdrawn. I accordingly vote keep and look forward to discussing this further on the talk page. Cool Hand Luke 19:22, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
        • This deletion nomination was created at 2007-01-22T17:07:51. At that point, the merge discussion looked like this. I don't think it is fair to say that I acted anything but prudently in this matter. I was in fact taking up your suggestion of AfD. Xiner (talk, email) 19:32, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
          • As I specifically said, I don't blame you for nominating it. do think the original reasons for the nomination have evaporated though. I do blame you for turning this into a personal crusade. Cool Hand Luke 21:56, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
        • I also believe now that the TV WikiProject had erred in their advisement to Dhett, which resulted in his continuing to work on the admirably long lists. No one would argue that CVS Corporation should keep a subpage of the locations of all its stores. I'm sorry I'm proposing for deletion someone else's work, but though I don't expect this particular nomination to succeed, my question about the encyclopedic value of the lists was what finally made anyone care about them. Xiner (talk, email) 19:47, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete this whole collection of articles. Merge the info. Shaundakulbara 05:39, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
• Keep with Clean-up. I'd be happy to assist with the clean-up. I believe this list is useful; someone who was looking for this information should be able to find it, without having to query endlessly at a government database. People often cite WP:NOT for these types of lists, but my own encyclopedia at home (World Book) contains many lists, albeit not specifically for lists of translators. I'm not sure why there's a need to link to each query, and I think the tables can be reduced (or at least prettified by removing the ALLCAPS). Many Wikipedia TV station articles have information on translators, as this was a compromise between those who wanted no mention of translators and those who wanted full articles on each translator. In the case of Utah station translators, this information becomes huge because Utah has only one market and is a rather large state. This article should ideally mention these facts in the article itself, with proper reference. Firsfron of Ronchester 20:43, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
  • No one should come to Wikipedia expecting to find a translator. That's the TV dial's job. As for prettifying the list, I've offered a suggestion above. Xiner (talk, email) 20:51, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

You still have a dial on your TV? Oh, man, your TV's gonna suck in 2009. ;) I often come to Wikipedia looking for archane stuff (usually old TV station history), and my TV's reception doesn't reach to Utah, but a researcher writing a book on television might well find this article a useful place to get started. I don't think deleting the list will make it any prettier, though. Firsfron of Ronchester 21:02, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I was talking about this. Xiner (talk, email) 21:08, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Given Dhett's source of this information, it would take an unusual view of original research to conclude that this page violates WP:OR. The fact that it's hard for a novice to navigate fcc queries shows that this tabulated data is quite useful. I don't want to dump 100 translators into all the Salt Lake TV station articles, but this information merits inclusion. The only question remaining is how to go about formatting it. The original subpage scheme seemed like a good compromise, but I think policy strongly frowns on it. Cool Hand Luke 21:56, 26 January 2007 (UTC)