User talk:Vaze50

August 2021

As you know, at the latest discussion here no consensus was reached. That means, per WP:NOCON ("In discussions of proposals to add, modify, or remove material in articles, a lack of consensus commonly results in retaining the version of the article as it was prior to the proposal or bold edit. ...") the status quo ante prevails. If you wish to challenge this, you need to restart the discussion, and stop edit-warring on numerous articles. Thanks. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:34, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

The reason why your proposals have failed & will fail again, is because there's too many editors involved in that topic area, who have opposed & likely always will oppose, the addition of the UK in British bios infoboxes. Trust me, I've been through it. In other words, if enough editors say that 'red' is 'blue', then the result is 'red' is 'blue'. GoodDay (talk) 05:18, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

GoodDay I feel you're right, I'm still daft enough to give it a go again for some reason, but I am not optimistic. Vaze50 09:22, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Give an example, up until a few years ago, I tried to have constituent country added in the intros of England, Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland, to help further (and more accurately) describe them. Roughly the same editors, kept opposing me & so it was never adopted. But at least we got "...part of the United Kingdom" in their intros, which in the early years wasn't there. GoodDay (talk) 17:17, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Discretionary sanctions alert

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have shown interest in the English Wikipedia Manual of Style and article titles policy. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.

Template:Z33 Firefangledfeathers (talk) 04:39, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Confrontational editing

Hello. Just a word to the wise that your recent edits on the subject of UK place-names read to me as being very confrontational. I have closed the discussion you started which I hope will mean you feel able to take a break from the subject and move on to an area you find less frustrating. Please remember to be civil and that Wikipedia is not about winning. As you've seen from the template message above, these areas are under discretionary sanctions. Your behaviour is quite close to the line of those sanctions being applied. Regards, The Land (talk) 11:12, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

If I may Vaze50. Recommend you take a 6-month break from the topic. This isn't a hill that you want to die on. GoodDay (talk) 18:05, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

August 2021 2

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 17:17, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

A very final warning

Look, Vaze50, the only reason you're not blocked right now is because your misconduct isn't as egregious as last time. But it still isn't great. You need to stop assuming bad faith and stop casting aspersions on your fellow editors. This WP:BATTLEGROUND conduct is, ultimately, unsustainable. If this behaviour continues, the likelihood that it will lead to the temporary or indefinite revocation of your editing privileges is a near certainty. I also get the sense that there's likely an unwillingness to respect consensus and/or (if applicable) live up to the maxim of WP:ONUS, but I've yet to confirm that (I suspect doing so isn't a necessity at this early stage). Thank you in advance for your close attention to this matter. El_C 19:19, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

El_C, The_Land It does feel deeply unsatisfactory that a discussion which I note many people remain interested in, and which contained a particular inconsistency which would be worth addressing on this website, has simply been closed on this occasion. You are correct that I have cast aspersions on a very tiny number editors, including, though not limited to, Spy-cicle. I appreciate that this is not in line with the standards you refer to above, but I cannot lie or pretend that I do not strongly believe the actions of this tiny minority of editors to be motivated by political opinions, rather than a desire to see the website be improved. I understand that this is not something said minority of editors like to have stated, but I cannot deny that is what I think about their actions, because I have seen no evidence to the contrary. This is not an attempt to be deliberately disruptive or rude, rather to state an honestly held view point. That said, I will aim to adhere to WP:ASPERSIONS in future.

I do not believe that this topic is a mere frustration however, I really must say that I believe quite sincerely that there is a political attempt by some to maintain a particular outcome on this website, something which I find very difficult to tolerate. I would be grateful for your views or advice on how this could be mediated in a different way, if there is such a thing, without breaching WP:ASPERSIONS, as you evidently know more about how to progress such things than I do. Vaze50 15:07, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Vaze50, you may well hold this view sincerely about these editors but the point of WP:AGF and WP:ASPERSIONS is that you could easily be wrong - such is online communication and ascribing motivation to others gets in the way of paying attention to what they are actually saying. I’m a case in point. You called me a “bigot”, “Anglophobe” and “politically motivated” when we “met” on this issue last March. I’ll tell you here and now that (a) I’m English (b) anti-nationalist (c) have what might be termed a “conservative’s view” of the UK (d) in the thread that you opened I put forward the view that i was neutral on the issue and didn’t care either way. The reason I reverted you back in the Spring was that you were editing against consensus. But you were so sure in your opinion of my motivation that what WP:CONSENSUS/WP:ONUS says went over your head. Focussing on editors’ motivation as much as you do is a cul-de-sac. And, by the way, leaving an edit summary like this an hour and a half after (presumably) reading warnings from two admins about WP:BATTLEGROUND really suggests you haven’t got it. DeCausa (talk) 18:29, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

DeCausa I'm not particularly interested in a lecture from you on tone. Edit summaries have run far, far more terse, rude and rougher than that from far more well-established editors than me, and nothing is said about those. Consistency is important. Your motivation is absolutely bizarre to me, if you hold the views you say you do, then you would be attempting to establish a consensus to correct it. Vaze50 21:04, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

But I’m not attempting to do that and don’t think it’s the right thing to do. The fact that you don’t understand my “motivation” and find it bizarre should tell you that you are not very good at understanding other editors’ motivations. That’s an excellent reason to not opine upon them. DeCausa (talk) 21:13, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Did you describe yourself as English, rather then British? GoodDay (talk) 22:18, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

You see this is exactly where the problem is DeCausa. You’ve previously said at first you didn’t want to see the UK acknowledged because there was no consensus on it. In fact you’ve just said that adding it is “not the right thing to do”, in other words that you are not simply defending a non-existent consensus, but you are in fact an activist on one side of this argument.

And why do you hold that view? There are only a couple of plausible reasons. 1) You think the UK is not a country (objectivity false), 2) You have a political objective to advance by removing the UK, 3) Some other reason that isn’t immediately apparent. What actually happened was that the UK was already on most relevant articles before a mass removal took place (without consensus I might add!) and for no clear reason. You have identified yourself as an activist here, so you can’t complain when other people point that out now, can you? I’m sure GoodDay would agree. Vaze50 22:34, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Vaze50, it's a not hill worth dying on. Maybe 'someday', there'll be enough editors to over-ride those who continue to push against using the terms British & UK, in the bio article intros & infoboxes. But for the moment, that doesn't seem to be the case. GoodDay (talk) 22:28, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Have you noticed GoodDay that DeCausa suddenly went quiet when they accidentally revealed their bias on the topic and their belief that the UK is not a country? How can anybody seriously say that this website is acting in an impartial way when a tiny number of blatantly politically motivated individuals are allowed to bully their way through? What can we do about this? Vaze50 14:39, 20 August 2021 (UTC)