User talk:Buddhipriya

Please add new sections at the bottom of the page in chronological order to make it easier to see what is new. Also, please sign your comments by typing ~~~~ at the end. That will automatically insert links back to your user page along with a date stamp. If you ask me a question here I will probably answer it here. Buddhipriya 18:45, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

My first contact with someone on Wikipedia!

Welcome!

Hello, Buddhipriya, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page
• Help pages
• Tutorial
• How to write a great article
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome! 

I've seen that you edit Hinduism articles. You may consider joining WikiProject Hinduism. Thanks Gizza^{Chat ©} 07:07, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

SAntoshi Ma

DO v really need 2 write abt a 'goddess', who has 'no Puranic evidence' in the Ganesha article????

- Redtigerxyz

Thank you so much for opening a dialog about this! I see from your edits that you have an interest in Ganesha, and your help in improving his page is very welcome. Because the question pertains to an edit for that page, it may be better for me to reply in detail on the talk page for Ganesha so we can exchange views with other editors who may miss it if they are here. I will raise your very valid question there and try to answer, so please take a look and we can continue this dialog there. Thanks again for the direct communication! ॐ गं गणपतये नमः Buddhipriya 19:20, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Re:Vairagya

Namaskar Buddhipriya! I fixed your edits on the Vairagya page so that is follow Wikipedia's conventions. To understand some important Wiki-policies please read WP:MOS and WP:CITE#HOW. Also may you read the main Hinduism page on Wikipedia (here - Hinduism). Many of us here want to make the main Hinduism article and other articles into Feature articles, which in short mean they are up to the highest standard of quality and quantity on Wikipedia. If you think the article has too much detail on particular topics, has very little information on more important areas, or something isn't explained well, please provide feedback on Talk:Hinduism. Thank you very much and keep up the good work! Gizza^{Chat ©} 10:37, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Welcome

I noticed that you have made several good edits, and insightful and civil comments on Hinduism related pages. Such editing is always welcome here and I hope you'll continue to contribute to this (and other) projects !

I read your comments regarding the use of IAST with interest and general agreement. A couple of points in that regard:

• I think it is a good idea to provide the IAST transliteration for a Sanskrit term at the first or main page where the term is defined so that an interested reader can learn to pronounce the term correctly if he/she so chooses.
• However I think repeated usage of IAST in every occurrence of a term reduces readability for an average reader who is more likely to be interested in learning about the term rather than its phonetic pronunciation alone (of course, as stated above, the latter information should be available)

I am curious to know your opinion on the above points. A side note: when adding an IAST transliteration it is useful to use the IAST template {{IAST| }} ; similarly consider using the language template, e.g. {{lang|sa|}} for sanskrit.

Welcome again. Feel free to leave any questions/comments on my talk page. Abecedare 21:39, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I like your curry analogy, but on wikipedia (with 1000s of editors) it is also important to follow the policies, guidelines and the manual of style WP:MOS so that too many cooks do not spoil the broth. :-)

A couple of tips:

• To start a new topic on a talk page, you can click on the "+" sign (next to the "edit this page" in the top toolbar).
• You correctly sign your name on talk page messages. However note that wikipedia articles should not contain signatures !
• Don't be afraid to make (unintentional) editing mistakes on wikipedia; at the same time don't mind if other editors edit your additions (or even revert your changes) or offer you advice (mea culpa).

In my experience, a useful way to learn to format content on wikipedia is to open a page, like say Hinduism in editing mode (although be careful not to save your changes, unless you intend to) , and see how the various items (sections, subsections, wikilinks, external links etc) are coded. Learning thus through examples is often easier that learning through formal instructions provided by welcome links above (although, just like IAST transliteration, it is useful to have the links to fall back on for definitive answers). Abecedare 22:42, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your helpful suggestions. I am new to Wikipedia and need your help to learn correct methods of working. I will try to make use of the two templates you suggest. Regarding IAST, I like your point that it should be available to the reader but not necessarily forced upon them all the time. Always we must try to build people up rather than make them feel limited. Because I am used to IAST and work with it a lot, my reflex is to put everything in IAST but I agree with you that the article must keep the needs of the reader in first place. Perhaps over time there will develop some tiered system for Indic content, in which a reader could choose to read a topic either with or without the source language details. Eventually these systems will probably dynamically adjust to the reading preferences of each reader, delivering a customized version of each article. Our children will look back on these discussions as quaint. But today we need to think it all through in a collaborative and respectful manner. Buddhipriya 22:40, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Ganesha Purana

You must have noticed that I moved the article you created to Ganesha Purana as per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English). The main reason for this guideline is that the if a user searches for Ganesha Purana (and surely he won't type IAST in google or wikipedia search :-) ) and the article title is in IAST, he will not find it ! I have also made an attempt to wikify the article and add the standard nuts and bolts to the content you had typed earlier. I hope you agree with the advisability of the edits.

I think the article as it stands is a reasonable stub. However content needs to be added to discuss (based on reliable sources) the contents of the purana and what commentators have said about it. Ideally we don't want to simply say that there are 3 books written about the purana (although even that is better than saying nothing), but rather what the books say about the purana itself. But it is a good start - good job! Abecedare 23:37, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the excellent improvements you have made so quickly. I will be able to learn much about Wiki formats by studying your changes. I am unsure how much detail to provide on this and other topics until I get a better sense of how stable Wiki articles are. For example my remark that "no critical edition" had been issued was deleted, perhaps because the term "critical edition" was not recognized. A critical edition of these sources means that many alternative readings have been reviewed and reconciled by scholars to produce a consensus text. If there is no critical edition, it means that individual editions may show significant variations from one another. This is indeed the case with the Ganesha Purana, so the 1993 edition by Sharma and the Bailey version are not quite the same text. It is fascinating seeing what elements of the text "stick" in Wiki and which fall away quickly. ") Buddhipriya 23:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Actually that was my mistake. What I meant to delete was the word "unfortunately" (which is an editorial, rather than factual or informative comment; we should state the facts and let the user decide if it is to be celebrated or bemoaned. The exception being, if we quote/cite someone saying that Fact A is unfortunate) , but deleted the whole sentence in error. I have added back the info.

I have also created an article talk page at Talk: Ganesha Purana where future discussion about the article content can occur. Abecedare 23:57, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Just curious

What Hindu denomination do you follow? I think you are either a Shaiva or Ganapatya. Best wishes Gizza^{Chat ©} 09:24, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

"God can be realized through all paths. All religions are true. The important thing is to reach the roof. You can reach it by stone stairs or by wooden stairs or by bamboo steps or by a rope. You can also climb up by a bamboo pole." - p. 191, The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna, tr. Swami Nikhilananda.

"It is not good to feel that my religion alone is true and other religions are false. The correct attitude is this: My religion is right, but I do not know whether other religions are right or wrong, true or false. I say this because one cannot know the true nature of God unless one realizes Him." - pp. 558-559

"God has made different religions and creeds to suit different aspirants. By no means all are fit for the knowledge of Brahman. Therefore the worship of God with form is provided." - p. 486

ॐ गं गणपतये नमः

Buddhipriya 18:15, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Explanation of my name

Hello again. It seems to me that you are not from North India or at least you do not know Hindi. The Hindi pronunciation (and many othe Indian languages) of Devanagari is different from Sanskrit. Firstly, the virama is not needed on Hindi words. This is why in most modern Hindu Indians, North or South, have names like Shiv, Ganesh, Ram, Govind instead of Shiva, Ganesha, Rama, Govinda etc. Secondly, अह् is really pronounced like एह् for non-Sanskrit derived Hindi words. That means Taj Mahal is pronounced as Taj Mehal. This is because of Persian/Muslim/Urdu influences on the language. Often, the "a"s (अ) in the middle of North Indian language words aren't pronounced too if the vowel isn't stressed, expecially in informal usage, like the word tyaar तयार (which means ready). If you see the Sehgal page on Wikipedia, you may notice alternative spellings though the pronunciation is still the same as mine. Of course Sanskrit derived words with अह् are pronouned properly like Maharaj (Great king/emperor) महाराज. Another common pronunciation difference between modern Indian languages and Sanskrit is the "ai" ऐ and "au" औ. Now they are pronounced as ē and ō in all modern Indian languages apart from a few Southern ones like Tamil and maybe some Eastern ones like Bengali. Gizza^{Chat ©} 05:47, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Wonderful education for me, thank you! You are correct that I do not know Hindi. Can you comment on regional variations in how the vowel ऋ is pronounced in Hindi? It is my impression that the "trilling" is more pronounced in Northern India but I am not sure if this is correct. By the way, once questions like this have been answered is it OK to delete them from talk pages? I am unclear on Wiki protocol for these exchanges. Is it best to answer on your talk page or keep both questions and replies on the same talk page?Buddhipriya 06:01, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

ऋ in Hindi tends to be pronounced as "ri" except at the end where it is "ra". Example - ऋषि is rishi but पितृ is "pitr" or "pitra." so it is slightly trilled at the end of words. In Gujarati, ऋ is pronounced as "ru" which is why they say rushi and Sanskrut!

For your talk pages, it is best to keep all messages unless they are very bad (offesive material, swearing, attacks but hopesfully this won't happen). Of course, after awhile your talk page becomes too big but we don't delete the old discusion. Instead we archive it. Please read WP:ARCHIVE on how to do that. Don't worry, at the moment your talk page isn't very big. Gizza^{Chat ©} 06:17, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

An award !

		The Exceptional Newcomer Award
		Here is an award both for your significant contributions to wikipedia as a knowledge repository, particularly the articles Ganesh Purana and Mudgala Purana that you brought up almost single-handedly, as well as the manner in which you comport yourself and interact with other users. Keep it up ! Abecedare 06:11, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism

I noticed that you already correctly dealt with vandalism on the Ganesh Chaturthi page. For future reference, here are somethings you can do about obvious vandalism:

• Revert the changes either manually or using popups, such as WP:POPUP.
• Leave a message on the user's talk page. You can use one of the user warning templates for this purpose.
• In cases of persistent vandalism you can file a report at WP:AIV or WP:ANI as appropriate (see further notes on those pages) to draw an admin's attention. The page may need to be protected/ semi-protected or the editor blocked - although for obvious reasons these steps are not taken lightly.

If you are not certain that the edit is vandalism, assume good faith and leave at least an edit summary informing the editors (and others) the reason why you have reverted the changes. You can request editors to discuss disputed changes on the article's talk page. In such cases also be aware of the three revert rule !
Finally, my personal advice is that while you should undo vandalism whenever you can, don't get emotionally involved even when you see persistent vandals attacking pages you have devoted time and attention to. As you continue to edit on wikipedia it is inevitable that you will run into persons whose mindset will appear alien to you - rather than let that upset you, it is more fruitful to take some time off, or move to other pages, or get help from admins and the wikipedia community. Above all remember the original reasons you started editing here, which are likely to be out of an desire to contribute to this incredible knowledgebase while having fun and gaining personal satisfaction.. Abecedare 07:26, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

An article which you started, or significantly expanded, Ganesha Purana, was selected for DYK!

On February 9, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Ganesha Purana, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Thanks for your contributions! Nishkid64 22:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks so much for the barnstar!

You have done tremendous work on Wikipedia so far and I hope you continue to do so! Gizza^{Chat ©} 08:09, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks from me too, and congrats on the DYK ! Hope you keep working on new + existing wikipedia article; let me know if I can be of any help. Thanks. Abecedare 18:58, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I honestly have not done much with Hinduism-related, or Indian-related topics, as far as I know. Anyway, thanks again, and keep up the good work on Wikipedia. =) Nishkid64 14:40, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Spam links

Thank you for removing the commercial spam links from Japa related pages. Appreciated. Regards, Gouranga(UK) 11:51, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Jai Santoshi Ma

Nice work ! By the way, IMDB spells the movie name as Jai Santoshi Maa (the simplified transliteration; see [1]), so it may be good to move the page to that spelling. (I can do that, if you agree to the move) By the way, I too have never created a Hindi movie page and so cannot offer many pointers. I have added a film infobox to the page, although I was too lazy to fill in all the fields :-) Abecedare 22:48, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

You are right, IMDb does use "Maa" -- so that is what I think we should go with. I have done the move and normalized the links to use "Maa". Thank you also for your guidance on how to build more consensus on some of the complex topics. The ability of anyone to change anything is a mysterious and chaotic process. Any suggestions on what to do with the issue of the history section for the Ganesha page?Buddhipriya 22:59, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Narada & Krishna

Hello Buddhipriya, I'd be happy to collaborate on the Narad Bhakti Sutra article. At the moment it's neither one thing or the other. What wdo you think about removing the masses of sanskrit and turing it into a more encyclopedic article containing quotations and disussions of the main points and different philosophical viewpoints on the text etc... is this what you were thinking of? I'm not so much into the wikisource idea as the straight text already exists elsewhere on the web.

In regards to the chronology of Krishna's days on earth I'm not sure if you've seen the discussion on the Krishna talk page? I agree with Abecedare's point, but just didn't want to loose the whole section. The nearest I could find to good reference is the one linked in here (Dating Krishna). Hope it didn't sound like I was shouting. Best Wishes, ys, Gouranga(UK) 10:13, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Kak and Twin Paradox

Dear Buddhipriya, I noticed that you replaced 'meaningless' in the twin paradox section with 'unclear', asserting that 'meaningless' is harse (sic: harsh?), and that you are not qualified to assess the claim. I sincerely recommend that we discuss this, and that 'meaningless' be re-inserted into that section. Firstly, I am qualified to assess the claim, as special relativity (being part of any undergraduate level course on modern physics) was taught to me in college, and understanding it doesn't even require you to be a physics major. Moreover, the person who inserted the word 'meaningless' is Lumidek, a physics professor at Harvard. I hope this clarifies things a bit; if not, please discuss with me or other Wikipedians who can comment on this topic. Thanks and with best wishes, Gajamukhu 23:43, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Dear Gajamukhu, I have self-reverted that edit. Thank you for your communication about it. My intent was only to look for things that seemed POV to me as a non-specialist. Buddhipriya 23:57, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! Gajamukhu 00:17, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Quick tip

An easy way to link to wikipedia policies, guidelines etc is to use shortcuts, instead of typing the whole URL. For example here are five options for pointing to the reliable source guideline:

1. "http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reliable_sources"
2. "[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reliable_sources]" which appears as [2]
3. "[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reliable_sources reliable sources]" which appears as reliable sources
4. " [[WP:RS]] ", which appear as WP:RS; and
5. "[[WP:RS|reliable sources]]" which appears as reliable sources

Typically, options (4) and (5) are preferred (depending upon the context), since they are easier to remember, type and read. Over time, you will have memorized the more common acronyms anyway. Cheers! Abecedare 23:50, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your continued coaching! Buddhipriya 00:23, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Collateral damage due to page move bot

{{unblock|I am sorry for whatever I may have done, but I do not understand the message that I have done a page move violation. Can someone please clarify?}} Buddhipriya 03:38, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

It looks like you were caught in an autoblock due to the massive vandalism done today. If you provide us with more information, we may be able to help you.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 03:40, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I will be happy to provide whatever information you request. I have been doing quite a bit of editing today on usual subjects. I added one redirection page based on procedure given by Admin Abecedare who will vouch for me. All was working normally and then suddenly the pages came up saying that IP address 69.181.140.178 had been blocked by Mackensen for a serious page move violation. I think this must be an error. Buddhipriya 03:45, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Okay. This is a tiny problem now.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 03:49, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Here is the message:

Your account or IP address has been blocked from editing. You were blocked by Mackensen for the following reason (see our blocking policy):

serious page-move vandalism Your IP address is 69.181.140.178. Buddhipriya 03:51, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I've contacted Mackensen and he's told me that it's an hour long block made about 20 minutes ago. No worries.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 03:52, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

And he's sorry for the inconvienience—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 03:53, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your quick help. Is there somewhere on Wiki where I can read more about what happened today that would cause this? Is there a Wiki Weather Report or something like that? Buddhipriya 03:54, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I found the answer to the mystery here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiDrama#Malicious_page_move_bot Buddhipriya 04:16, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

You seem to be having an adventurous evening ! Are you still blocked ?

By the way, while reverting vandalism/POV edits by User:Screen name1234 some time back, I noticed that you had run into him. You may want to check out this ANI report that I just filed, and included links to catch up on the backstory. Abecedare 04:22, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I am still blocked, but now it is sort of fun because I feel I am in the midst of an adventure. You are right that I ran into Screen_name1234. FYI, today is a Ganesh Chaturti for this lunar fortnight (4th day of the half-month) and I celebrated by making a lot of edits to the Ganesha page. I am braced for reaction! Buddhipriya 04:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Your draft of Vinayakas

Hi, I just wanted to let you know that I moved User:USERNAME/Vinayakas to User:Buddhipriya/Vinayakas. USERNAME is meant to be replaced with your username. By the way, using subpages to write drafts is a perfectly good use of subpages -- it's specifically mentioned at Wikipedia:User page. Dave6 ^talk 08:33, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your help with this. This was my first attempt to create a subpage. I am new to Wikipedia and make make many errors. The child learns to walk only by falling down a lot. Buddhipriya 16:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Krishna

Thought Id drop you a quick note when I saw your edit summary on the Krishna page: I don't think you need to revert any of the changes you made there ! You took the proper route by moving content to the talk page - if we decide that those claims + citations need to be added back, we have not have lost the information in the article history. Abecedare 17:48, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

My message was too late :-) It does not really matter, since we plan to rework the section anyway. I, though, may be able to get to it only over the weekend. Feel free to edit it in the meantime though. You have access to good source material and have good judgment! Abecedare 17:51, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

(In case you are confused, the first message above was posted after seeing your talk page message and the second after seeing your Krishna reverts.) Abecedare 17:54, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your comment. I felt it was best to leave things as they were. I am not Vaishnava but I have much respect for the deep faith that the personality of Lord Krishna inspires. I am not a specialist in his literature and so I am learning a great deal by following the discussions. Buddhipriya 17:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think one needs to be a Vaishnava/Krishna bhakta/Hindu/Indian in order to edit Krishna or any other articles on wikipedia! While emotional involvement with the subject may be a good motivator to edit, it is not necessarily a good qualification; it may even clouds ones judgment in certain cases.

Also, in writing wikipedia articles our goal should not be "to be respectful", but rather "to be encyclopedic" (of course, that does not imply that one needs to be disrespectful; just let the article subject and scholarship speak for itself). The reason I think religious scholars should be referenced on pages such as Krishna is not to assuage religious sensibilities - rather it is important, in my opinion, for an encyclopedia to reflect both the historical/scholarly view of the subject and how the practitioners of a religion view its icon. After all the latter is the reason the icon deserves an article in the first place !

I know (or think I know :-) ) from your edits that these points are not new to you - I jot them down just to clarify my own opinion. Hope it doesn't come across as too preachy/prescriptive. :-) Abecedare 18:09, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

You are a wonderful Wikiguru. I am always grateful for your perspective on things. Some people consider it a sin to weaken the faith of anyone. This idea is based on Lord Krishna's command in the Gita not to unsettle the minds of those who know less of a subject: "Let not the wise person unsettle the minds of the ignorant." (na buddhi bhedaṃ janayed ajñānāṃ BG 3.26; also see BG 4.11). I am not a Gita-thumper but I do think there is much wisdom there. :) Buddhipriya 18:20, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

appropriate external links

Hello, I am writing in regards to your removing the external link I have placed under Ganehsa. You indicated that it is not a suitable link but did not say why you believe so. Please see the link if you have not already. The site is from Sahaja Yoga (Canada) which is a universal religious organization that holds Shri Ganesha in the highest of regard. [3] The information from the link is from scripture. Please see Dnyaneshwari as reference. Dnyanshwari (aka Jnanadev) expounded on kundalini and the chakras in a most lucid and poetic way. I would like to add the link again and see that it can remain as an appropriate external link.Workie77 20:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Namaste, thank you for your message. According to Wiki policy on reliable sources the issue is that anyone can put anything on a web site, so in assessing web links one must look for quality of primary source references. There are none on that web site, and the site adds nothing to what is in the article. The Wiki policy also points out that web sites operated by religious groups are to be used with particular caution. If you want to add material of a general nature about chakras, perhaps you could give it a try on the talk pages for chakra. The Ganesha page currently contains a lot of unreferenced material which we are trying to clean up. Wiki articles that reference other wiki articles as sources can be circular in nature, by the way, and at some point a verifiable resource such as a book needs to be cited. I have no question that your organization holds Ganesha in high regard. The issue is that the content does not meet tests for verifiability.Buddhipriya 20:33, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

deletion of content

Thank you for wisiting may talk page:

Please do not delete content from articles on Wikipedia, as you did to Sarmatians. It may be considered vandalism. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. Buddhipriya 01:50, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

here is my answer. The map is false. Nasz 02:08, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

sory

i was very mistaken, plese forgive me that i talked to you

Nasz 05:01, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Ganesha beyond Hinduism

I have started this new article and would like you help me expand it. I intend to the role of Ganapati in Buddhism , Jainism n also his presence in other countries like Sri lanka, Thailand , Japan etc. Thanks.--Redtigerxyz 12:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I am so glad that you have created the article and that you are asking to collaborate on it! It is a wonderful subject. Perhaps what I could do first would be to add a section for book references. There are several good books that include material on this, with very beautiful color plates. Since you have asked for participation I will go ahead and add a few that are available fairly widely with ISBN numbers. I was pleased to see that Wikipedia has a very good system for handling citations with ISBN numbers. So long as the ISBN number is included, a user can click on it to get to a variety of book search services to find the item in libraries and online booksellers. I will add at least one or two references today just to get some quality items up. Buddhipriya 18:40, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Template test

Test 1

This is test 1 of a template that is under development at Template_talk:DisplayTranslations. This test does not use the IAST template.

Test 2

This is test 2 of the template and includes an IAST template embedded within the main template. This test shows the embedding of an IAST template within the DisplayTranslations template causes a parsing error.

Test 3

This is test 3 of the template. It omits the IAST template but shows what happens if a user omits one of the two required arguments for a language pair. The language Klingonese has been added with no paired word, creating a malformed structure.

Test 4

This is test 4, omitting the use of italics but otherwise using the template as designed. Italics make the words harder to read on some displays. I dislike italics.

Buddhipriya 21:46, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Test 2a

Hi Buddhipriya -

Thanks again for all your excellent experimentation, guidance and encouragement. If I may just provide a slightly modified test 2, this test shows the embedding of an IAST template within the DisplayTranslations template works correctly if the pipe-escape ({{!}}) is used instead of the standard pipe (|). (I've added some text to Template:DisplayTranslations' introductory text to attempt to further explain this.) Hope you find this encouraging :-)

With metta, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 05:15, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Another template test with the new IAST imbedding

ur:گنیش

Thanks for the template

Thanks for the vandalism template. I'll be sure to use it in future. GrimGary 06:51, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Reply to your comments on my user talk page, and a linking note

Hello, I replied to your comments on my user talk page. Thanks for the kind words. If I may make a suggestion, I would advise looking for a word other than "nonsensical" to describe a current Wikipedia policy, because that could trigger an unproductive emotional reaction from the policy's proponents. Yes, the policy in question does seem rather nonsensical to me too, but merely saying so won't sound very convincing to people to whom the policy makes sense. Instead one has to find out what they do believe currently, and argue on the basis of that. It's hard to change a person's beliefs, but sometimes we can show them that what they are doing in one area is contradicting what they believe in some other area. In other words, to change another person's behavior, one has to show that person how the change we are recommending is more in keeping with that person's values than whatever that person is currently doing. And yes, this is often difficult, but it is much simpler than changing a person's values.

You may wish to add this to your list of links:

• User:John Broughton/Editor's Index to Wikipedia

Almost everything a person could need to know about editing on Wikipedia is reachable from that page, and I think easier to find there than by many other means.

I noticed you are linking to some Wikipedia pages as external links rather than as wikilinks. For example, instead of:

• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Vandalism#Warnings

you could say:

• Wikipedia:Vandalism#Warnings

but of course you can use whatever link style you prefer. --Teratornis 21:57, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the helpful tips! I am new to Wikipedia and am still learning the various link formats. You are correct to focus on ways our language can affect the progress of debate, thank you for the suggestions. Buddhipriya 22:02, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Also worth noting: the final authority on Wikipedia, Jimbo Wales, appears to hold as an article of unquestioning faith that everyone must be able to edit everything. He even invites you to edit his user page. However, that strikes me as a bit disingenuous, because he also mentions that lots of people watch his user page and quickly revert unconstructive edits. Wales' philosophy might make sense in the "capital city" of high-profile pages patrolled by armies of trained experts, especially pages that large numbers of Wikipedians can understand, but what about out in the "provinces" and "hinterlands" of Wikipedia? There aren't enough trained eyeballs to police 1.7+ million pages. Furthermore, there is no obvious indication, when looking at a page, of how much scrutiny it is getting. Text written by some eminent scholar in an article's subject looks the same as text written by a teenaged prankster. Wikipedia:100,000 feature-quality articles#What would it take to do this by the end of 2007? says there might only be five Wikipedians qualified to contribute to an article as specialized and well-developed as Aldol reaction. Can those five guard the article against blatant (or worse, subtle) vandalism by potentially innumerable hordes of vandals? And more importantly, will they? It seems Wales' philosophy of equal access for all must eventually drive some (large?) fraction of experts away. At some point, Wikipedia is going to have to institute a system of editor rankings, so we can tell by looking at an article which parts originated with experts or have received recent expert scrutiny. If an article is edited by an editor of no standing, the article should be marked as on probation pending a re-review by a qualified editor. There needs to be some kind of flagging or warning that what you are reading has or has not been expertly checked. --Teratornis 15:10, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, yes, everything you say here is absolutely true and must be repeated early and often. I will begin citing you as an authority that "No matter how efficient the experts are, they cannot win against the numerically superior barbarian hordes under a system of equal access..." which sums it up perfectly. I like your idea about having some system for editor rankings and I see no reason why such a system could not be implemented using objective statistical inputs as at least one factor, such as ratio of reverted to retained edits. New voices must have a way to be heard, but they do not have to be given equal weight with established editors who have proven they add more value than they take away. The article on conflicts involving expert editors includes a number of funny (tragic?) stories where people making novel claims with no reliable sources have held experts at bay.

Via a link you provided me with I found this Harvard Business School article which so far is one of the best current reviews on these issues that I have found. That article has a quote from Nicholas Carr, a former senior editor at the Harvard Business Review, posted on July 10, 2006:

"For some of us, the popular online encyclopedia has become more interesting as an experiment in emergent bureaucracy than in emergent content.... Wikipedia is beginning to look something like a post-revolutionary Bolshevik Soviet, with an inscrutable central power structure wielding control over a legion of workers."

Buddhipriya 17:50, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Wow, that's a great article you found by actually following the links I merely pointed to. The history of Wikipedia makes clear that over time, there is a tendency to add steadily more protection, for example after the John Seigenthaler Sr. Wikipedia biography controversy. It's easy to see how Wikipedia locked its thinking early in favor of openness, given the spectacular success of Wikipedia after the equally spectacular failure of Nupedia. But Wikipedia is less open now than it once was; anonymous and newly registered users cannot create new articles. How that discourages the vandalism of existing pages I cannot fathom. It's probably just a matter of time until some vandal creates another Seigenthaler-type controversy, since the ability of vandals to do this sort of thing has hardly been checked, and then Wikipedia will belatedly introduce more protection, futher relaxing its populist anti-intellectualism, and making "some animals more equal than others" after all.

The paragraphs about the plight of experts are telling. Expertise is in fact a very fragile and tenuous thing. Imagine the one lone voice of expertly trained reason attempting to calm a rioting mob, or simply trying to dispel one emotionally appealing logical fallacy after another. There is a reason why experts tend to retreat to cloistered institutions of higher learning - so they don't have to keep wasting their time trying to beat the rabble at their own game. Creation-evolution controversy#Debates briefly overviews the fondness creationists have for debating scientists; creationists cannot win in the process of science, where claims must stand or fall based on the evidence. But creationists can do very well in the information-deprived environment of public debate, where the real-time constraint and the limits of one opponent's personal expertise can allow a rhetorical trickster to "win" even while being wrong. After all, most scientists haven't received much if any training in the art of debate, so they cannot always recognize and dispel an opponent's carefully prepared logical fallacies within the arbitrarily allotted time. Science works better because it doesn't depend on personal charisma or swaying the audience with emotional appeals. Instead, scientists take all the time they need to analyze arguments and evidence, and continually re-analyze them from more perspectives. Over time, the final result is more likely to be accurate than the result of extemporaneous responses to prepared trick questions.

Experts are trained to do their jobs, which generally involve advancing the boundaries of knowledge, filling in gaps of knowledge, or plying a trade via standards of practice accepted by their guild. They often aren't up to speed with the apologetics of their domain of knowledge, and they may have little idea of how to prove their belief system to the man in the street. As a result, creationists have been known to fluster and embarrass scientists who naively agree to debate them, but without specific preparation in the types of prepared rhetorical tricks the creationist will spring during the debate. I read somewhere that even some expert Flat earth proponents can "win" debates against scientists. This is similar to the way a high-pressure salesman can pressure a "mark" by rattling off one prepared argument after another, faster than the surprised mark can see the way through each successive trick.

Wikipedia, then, can be for the expert something like the Cultural Revolution experience of being made to go scrub toilets with the proletariat. In the real world, expertise has traditionally been at least partially protected from too much direct content with the unwashed masses. Experts wouldn't be able to get much done if they were continuously surrounded by average people who question their every claim, particularly when understanding the claims might require years of specialized study. Experts have to limit much of their contact to fellow experts, or they end up wasting their expertise. --Teratornis 19:55, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

disney incidents

You questioned the facts on the statement, so I just removed it as the appropriate article is already linked in that section. The Incidents at Disney parks article has all the documented details regarding major injuries and deaths that have occured at Disneyland and elsewhere. SpikeJones 23:56, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Wonderful, thanks! Buddhipriya 00:00, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Who is a Hindu?

You'll note I have reworded the list you created. My main goal was to change "Thus a Hindu could be defined as a person who:" into "Thus a Hindu could:" because the former sounded as if we were giving the formula for becoming a Hindu with 5 possible options; and I was afraid that such a list would become a magnet for every Hindu editor to add their personal reasons for considering themselves Hindu. Thus soon we would see "born in India", "believe in Ganesha" etc added to the list :-) I am hoping the rewording will instead simply indicate that Hindus come in diverse flavors.
I also combined some bullets of the list since the details of Hindu philosophy are better left to the Hinduism article; while Hindu deals better with the demographics and practices.
Finally, do you think it would be a better idea to mention a nastika (atheistic) school in addition to the dualist and non-dualist schools since that illustrates the broad possible range ? We can possibly remove the "subtle" variants, if needed. This is only a minor point and can be left for later/other editors.
Thanks for your help ! Abecedare 02:47, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

By atheistic, I was thinking of something like Samkhya or Carvaka. What do you think ? Abecedare 02:51, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Let me build up this reply with a series of edits. The short list is much better, I agree.

I think where you are going is to try to work in Samkhya or Carvaka pages. Perhaps good, but there are some terminology issues. Let me say that I do not know much about Cavaka, I would want to crack the books before answering on that. Regarding Samkhya, the page on Wiki is almost worthless as it fails to explain how the use of that term changed over time. In fact, Samkhya as a general term has little to do with whether or not one wishes to believe in a deistic system. In fact, different views within the general rubric of Samkhya take diametrically opposing points on deism, meaning the personification of the Divine as a personality or Lord (Ishvara). The confusion of Samkhya with "atheism" is common. It does not mean that. The term "na āstika" ("nāstika", simple English may write: "nastika") does not always mean atheist, either. It can simply mean "not pious" in addition to the way most people think of it ("not believing"). āstika means "believing" or "pious". Perhaps avoiding all of these technical terms would be a good idea and try to put the concept into plain English. For example, I think it is true to say that "Not all Hindus believe in a Divine Being." Is that what you are trying to get at? The wiki articles on Hinduism are generally of limited value, in my opinion. Has this raised more questions than it answered? Buddhipriya 02:54, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

You are right about nastika not being same as atheism - I knew that but was still using a lazy shortcut :-)

My main point is that since the aim is to illustrate the broad range of thought that Hinduism can encompass, we should give examples of schools that are at the extremes (not same as extremist schools :-) ) - so perhaps reference can be made to Atheism in Hinduism article or the above mentioned schools. Of course, we will need to be as accurate as possible in labeling the chosen school atheistic, non-deistic etc. As you said this is particularly problematic for Samkhya, since it itself has evolved over time and has different strands of thought !

Perhaps the best definition of Hinduism is provided by Neti neti (this is tongue in cheek) Abecedare 03:16, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I had not seen the article on Atheism in Hinduism before but it looks not obviously wrong like the others. I think it would be fine to link to it for now. I would avoid falling into the maze of technical distinctions which has arisen around these questions. At the other extreme, I have in my hands a popular devotional book for English readers which contains a form in the back which one can fill in and sign in order to become an authorized Hindu. All that is needed is to send it in. Buddhipriya 03:21, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

That's great ! Perhaps we should add an point to the article: A Hindu is ... "someone who fills in the form at the end of Book X and sends it to the authorized address" :-)

As for the "schools" - we can wait for other editors to take a look and chime in about the recent changes. They may have more serious objections to the edits, than this relatively minor point. Cheers. Abecedare 03:25, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

(Edit conflicts) One of the closest definitions of being of Hindu (though even this has some faults) is the acceptance of the Vedas in terms of scriptural authority. All the six darshanas and four main denominations today (Vaishava, Shaiva, Shakti, Smarta) generally believe that their sacred texts contain the essence of the Vedas and that in the current age Kali Yuga, they are easier to understand than the Vedas themselves. There is the odd exception, such as some South Indian Shaivist sects though, which only accept Tantric texts. Gizza^{Chat ©} 03:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

DaGizzaji, it is nice to hear from you. Regarding the role of the Vedas, you are quite right that they occupy a pre-eminent place. And as you mention, all the major groups claim that their scriptures (which often are of comparatively recent origin) are true renditions of Vedic authority. But as the Christians would say, "the Devil can cite the Bible to prove his point" (or something like that). And in fact if you look at the actual practices of these groups, they have virtually nothing in common with Vedic modes of worship. The distinction between Veda and Vedanta is like that between the Old Testament and New Testament. Christians read the Old Testament but they no longer sacrifice goats on Sunday. If you look at the lines of argument that many of the jingoists use on these pages, notice how often claims of "Vedic authority" are put in the front window to justify whatever claim is being made. You mention the Tantrikas, and that is a very good example. I have a very great respect for the Tantrikas, who have developed very sophisticated philosophical materials in addition to the nonsense published about them in Western sex books. But I would not characterize the Tantrika as practicing Vedic religion, if that means reading the Vedas and doing worship as is specified therein. As I mentioned in a post the other day, the Ganapatya tantrika scriptures number in excess of 100, and none of them have anything to do with the Vedas except by way of indirect claims of authority. For these reasons I would be cautious about making references to the Vedas the touchstone. Buddhipriya 03:53, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes I agree with you. After much discussion, the main Hinduism page now says that the religion came from both Vedic (Aryan?) and local (Tantric/Indus Valley?) traditions. If one considers the various sahasranamas to be authorative, then it can be argued that a large portion of the Vedas are related to modern Hinduism such as Shiva-Rudra. In reality however, the only Vedic remnants are the yajñas that are only practised occasionally, the navagrahas who have diminished in importance but are still there and the Gayatri Mantra. OTOH, I think a lot of Upanishadic notions begin to creep into the Atharvaveda, which is the fourth Veda. Even then, the seemingly polytheistic Rig Veda contains the ekam sad bahudha quote, so the extent to which the Vedas influence modern Hinduism will always be debated. Gizza^{Chat ©} 07:13, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I would be cautious about citing any of the Sahasranamas as having anything authoritative to say about Vedic materials. All of the great Sahasranamas are of relatively late composition, certainly post-Vedic, and are mainly the product of cultic groups. The figures of the divinities reflect as given in the Sahasranamas reflect very late developments in how those personalities eventually developed from Vedic precursors. For example, there are eight different Shiva Sahasranamas, and none of them has much to do with the precursor figure of Shiva (Rudra) as he appears in Vedic sources. R. K. Sharma has done a wonderful book comparing the eight versions (I have given a refernce to it in the Sahasranama article. But of course I agree completely with your main point, which I think is that most of the topics that are of central importance in the Vedas are no longer the axes around which modern practice revolves. Buddhipriya 20:54, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Sai Baba website link removal

Hi

Just want to check why http://www.shirdi-sai-baba.com link was removed from Sai Baba page? This website is 100% relevant.

Are you guys kidding or playing a game?

Can you pls answer? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 122.167.141.217 (talk) 16:01, 25 February 2007 (UTC).

Thank you for asking aobut link policies on Wikipedia. Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, the external links you added do not comply with our guidelines for external links. Wikipedia is not a mere directory of links; nor should it be used for advertising or promotion. Since Wikipedia uses nofollow tags, external links do not alter search engine rankings. If you feel the link should be added to the article, then please discuss it on the article's talk page before reinserting it. Please take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Buddhipriya 16:55, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Nastika

I just glanced at the page and here are my top-of-the-head comments:

• Do we really need a separate pages on Astika and Nastika, especially if each is going to be a short article (as is likely, since the details of individual schools obviously will be discussed on their own page) ? Can't we have Nastika redirect to Astika, just as nonflammable redirects to flammable ?
• Is there a reason to comment out the references (footnotes), or is that an oversight ?
• Giving only the literal meaning of nastika as "non-pious" is perhaps misleading, since when used in the technical philosophical sense it surely does not imply that Buddhists/Jains/Carvakas are non-pious (although that presumably was how the initial link arose)! To give an analogy Hasidic also literally means "pious" but it would still be wrong to equate astika and hasidic or use them interchangably, since their usage clearly goes beyond the literal meaning (although isn't the similarity remarkable! :-) )

Hope these points are helpful. Abecedare 03:59, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, very helpful. There is another derivation of the word which I know is used but I cannot find a citation for it. In that derivation it is from na + asti (with a short "a") literally meaning "it is not". This is a technical term in Buddhism referring to denial of existence of the Atman. I did not put it in but I can, and try to find a reference.

• I am not sure about combining the articles as I have not really looked at the other. Let me do that and think about it.
• I am not sure what you mean by commenting out the references. I certainly did not intend to do that and cannot see in the code where I did. Can you please restore them if you see them?
• You are right about the opening not being clear about "pious". I will look for more citations that may allow me to expand the opening.

Buddhipriya 04:37, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I just uncommented the references.

By the way, I am not disputing the etymology of the term as "not pious" or "non-believer"; that sounds about right to me - although we can go further and say that as (asti?) means "is" or "to be " etc if we can find suitable sources. My point is that it is important to distinguish between the etymology of a term and its meaning in current usage(s) (even though some people on wikipedia take the proto/literal/etymological meaning to be the only/true meaning - "Hindu" being a familiar example.)

The astika article itself has several far-fetched statements and can be improved. This IMO is ever more the reason to merge the two articles since it will make it easier to write and maintain a single article; and explaining nastika requires one to explain the concept of astika anyway. However that is not my decision to make unilaterally - if you concur, we can place a merge tag on the two articles and see what other editors think. Abecedare 04:56, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I just looked at the astika article and see what you mean. It is a good example of a "near-miss" in that it actually has some of the right ideas, but not put precisely. There is also some confusion arising because of the use of simple English rather than IAST to write the words. I know that you think I am a crank regarding IAST, but this is actually a good example of why it matters. Because of the way Sanskrit compounds are formed, the word nāstika could mean two completely different things, which can only be understood in context. It might mean "not believing" (na + āstika), that is, not believing in the Vedas, which is why the technical term in the philosophy books is "heterodox".

On the other hand, it might mean "an adherent of the it-is-not philosophy" (na + asti + ka). This is grammatically a completely unrelated usage. Speakers of modern Hindi reflexively think it means something like "atheist" because in Hindi na + asti means "He is not" (meaning God). In Buddhist technical usage, it can mean "it is not" (meaning the atman). I will work on the nastika article some more to work some of this in, but I need to find citations. I know it is true, but my opinion is not worth much. We also should ask others what they think about combining the articles. Buddhipriya 05:30, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

A correction: I don't believe you are a crank regarding IAST :-) Abecedare 05:39, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I have been checking sources regarding the derivation question, and am now sure I can prove that the derivation is from āstika and not asti. I reached this conclusion by searching for the opposite term "orthodox" and consistently find that the word used is āstika and not astika. IAST triumphant! Based on this search I now agree that combining the two articles on astika and nastika would be a good idea. I would like to learn the procedure to do such a thing. Can you explain it to me so I could do it? What is the notice process? Buddhipriya 05:53, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Buddhipriya, the instructions for first proposing a merge and then carrying it out are at WP:Merge. I think Astika +Nastika merge should be non-controversial, given the little attention the two pages receive. Let me know if I can be of any help. Thanks. Abecedare 23:44, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I have set the ball rolling. fell free to chime in, especially if you object to the merger! Abecedare 23:56, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, I have agreed in writing. I have edited Nastika to try to address the points you raised. How is it coming along? Buddhipriya 23:58, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the concurrence. Nastika seems a better title to me too. We should give other editors at least a couple of days to respond, before actually performing any merge. In the meantime, it may be better to resist the urge to edit the two articles; since the content will probably need to be reorganized soon anyway. :-) Abecedare 00:01, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Will do, I will fix one book title and then leave them both alone until you raise the issue next. Thank you for all your help on this. Buddhipriya 00:04, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

By "resist the urge" I only meant "I will resist the urge". Ah, the perils of non-face-to-face-communication. :-) Abecedare 00:18, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

		The Barnstar of High Culture
		In regards to the development of Template:DisplayTranslations, I award you this barnstar for sharing your vast knowledge regarding Indic languages, for sharing it in a patient, thoughtful and tireless way, for sharing it for the betterment of a broad array of WP articles, and for sharing it across a cultural wall that too often is barbed with bitterness and hostility. Your tireless, kind heart gives me hope, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 19:44, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Nirukta

I don't know if I can contribute to the article in content, but I certainly enjoyed reading it! By the way, you may want to request User:Rudrasharman to weigh in - I recall he had referenced Nirukta (particularly Naighantuka) during the discussions on the Talk:Ashvamedha page. Cheers. Abecedare 07:55, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Incarnations of Visnu

I understand you removed it by mistake. I appreciate your humility. No need of apologies. Jbarot 15:54, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

sri tattvanidi

Dear Sir,

Thanks for noticing the additions so soon.

You can get the book from: Director prasaranga University of Mysore Manasagangothri Mysore-570006

you can also get the books from online sources like https://www.dkagencies.com/doc/Home.html and serch for mummadi.

I also feel the title srittavanidi for your post on ganapati is not right.

If you need any more info ot if you feel i should post all the 32 paintings along with the original kannada texts, kindly let me know. raja

Hindu Deities Vandalism

Namaskar Shri. Buddhipriya ji

First let me clarify that I am not aware of how to communicate with a user as I had never done it. So updating this page. I would appreciate if you can guide me here.

Now coming to the point, I am not sure why you have shot the third warning messages to me for updating page "Hindu deities". (This third update was nothing but a spelling correction!!) On other side of content, one who loves God/Deity and pray them can never be ignorant towards their denigrations. As you are an editor that does not mean you have rights to supress the thoughts of other devotees. I hope you will respect the feelings of others and understand that protecting good image of deity is a practical way of worship of deity. Mere writing long articles and keeping mum while one defames Lord Ganesha is NOT attribute of a real devotee.

With regards,

Anit

28-February-2007

Thank you for contacting me. On Wikipedia you may contact other users either by placing a general remark on the talk page for a specific article (if your comment is something that others would benefit from participating in) or by placing a remark on a specific user's talk page, as you did in this case (which is quite appropriate if you are mainly wanting to clarify a point with that person). In either case, the content can be seen by anyone and often others will be able to contribute a point in ways that may not have been considered at first. To keep conversations intact it is usually best to keep questions and answers on the same page.

If there is a disagreement about content on a page, the best approach would be to raise the question on the talk page for that article so that you may build agreement for your views. The need to cite reliable sources is a Wikipedia guideline, and currently in the Hinduism Project there has been a call to upgrade the level of sourcing on articles in general. You could help with that effort by identifying pages which lack reliable sources and raising the question of sourcing for any page where you feel that the facts are not right. You are completely correct that in matters of faith all points of view must be respected. At the same time we must work together to ensure that a high level of quality is maintained for all statements in encyclopedia articles. I look forward to your comments on the talk pages for the particular articles which you feel can be improved. Buddhipriya 17:49, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Namaskar Shri. Buddhipriya ji

Dhanyavad for your prompt response. I appreciate your efforts for maintianing high quality of articles. I support this cause. But you have not answered my query that why have you decided to give me a "final warning" for a change of spelling. I expect you to reconsider that as I take such remarks very seriously.

Responding to your appeal, I will definately work on those lines.

With regards,

Anit

28-February-2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Anit.pimple (talk • contribs) 18:02, 28 February 2007 (UTC).

The warning system at Wikipedia is based upon the idea of graduated responses which go from mild to more strong based on the number of reversions which have been done. The language of these warnings is standardized, and there are actually a great many of them. I too find it confusing to find the right one at all times. To help you find links to the documentation I will add one of the standard infoboxes for these warnings here. Most of the warnings have three or four levels.

Warning templates PageName is optional {{subst:uw-vandalism1|PageName}} ~~~~ (unintentional vandalism/test) {{subst:uw-delete1|PageName}} ~~~~ (unintentional removal of content) {{subst:uw-vandalism2|PageName}} ~~~~ (suitable for intentional nonsense or disruption) {{subst:uw-delete2|PageName}} ~~~~ (variant for removal of content) {{subst:uw-vandalism3|PageName}} ~~~~ ("please stop" for use after level 2 warning) {{subst:uw-delete3|PageName}} ~~~~ (please stop removing content) {{subst:uw-vandalism4|PageName}} ~~~~ (last warning for vandalism) {{subst:uw-delete4|PageName}} ~~~~ (last warning for removing content) {{subst:uw-vandalism4im|PageName}} ~~~~ (only warning; for severe or grotesque vandalism only) {{subst:uw-delete4im|PageName}} ~~~~ (only warning; for many blankings in a short period of time) See additional templates and examples of output

When users make series of edits, it is the cumulative edits that will determine how the admins eventually think of things. Generally it is easy to nip a warning series in the bud if you simply take the issue to the talk page for an article upon receipt of a first warning rather than continuing to edit the point into the main article. Since anyone can warn anyone for anything, first warnings are as common as flies and in many cases they are mainly intended to get the attention of a user in a way that complies with the Wikipedia warning system. Has this clarified anything? If not please continue to dialog so we may work together effectively.

I have a great love for Ganeshji and certainly do not want to see him abused by anyone. If you are eager to draw more attention to a particular issue I will look forward to learning more about it, as I know nothing of the specific facts which you are raising. ॐ गं गणपतये नमः Buddhipriya 18:13, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Namaskar Buddhipriya ji

Firstly let me be very frank but still I do not see any reason to call my spelling change any kind of Vandalism.

Second, you had asked for particular issues of abuse of Lord Ganesha. Visit links below to view a few of them.

http://www.hindujagruti.org/hinduism/festivals/ganesh/gallery.php?level=album&id=13 http://www.hindujagruti.org/denigrations/ (Same link you objected)

Successful Protests against abuse http://www.hindujagruti.org/denigrations/successful/index.php?id=17 http://www.hindujagruti.org/denigrations/successful

There are links provided of the sources. Hindu deities are being abused on such mass level but we are so ignorant that we hardly raise our voice against them.

Also there was a scam of rupees 24 lacs in Sri Siddhivinayak Temple.

You can drop me a mail if you are interested in knowing more and willing to get alerts for such incidences.

Regards

Anit