User talk:The Transhumanist/Archive 8

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I respond to articles posted here on this page. Please check back for my responses. Thank you.  The Transhumanist   

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Tip of the moment... Screenshots If you need to illustrate an article about software or a website, a good tip is to take screenshots. In Microsoft Windows, a screenshot of the entire monitor, complete with taskbar, can be copied to the system clipboard by pressing the Prt Sc key. Alternatively, pressing Alt+Prt Sc will copy just the active window to the clipboard. You can then paste the clipboard into a program like MS Paint or Paint.NET using Ctrl+V, and then save it as an image file (for uploading to Wikipedia, for instance). In Mac OS X, simply prepare your screen to how you want it to look, then hit ⌘ Cmd+⇧ Shift+3 (not the number pad 3) simultaneously. The new image will appear as a PNG on your desktop. Additionally, if you only want to capture part of the screen, you can hit ⌘ Cmd+⇧ Shift+4, click and drag over the part of the screen you would like to capture and release, also saving it as a PNG on your desktop. When uploading, be sure to use an appropriate copyright tag, such as web-screenshot. Prior tip – Tips library – Next tip Read more: Screenshot   Become a Wikipedia tipster To add this auto-randomizing template to your user page, use {{totd-random}}

Secular humanist

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Basic topics

Hi TT. You've asked some tough questions, which is why I've taken time to answer them.

As you point out to me, you nowhere define "basic topics" (or wikilink to a definition). Create your own definition for this list (read on for how).

I think the fundamental question is neither comprehensiveness, nor RS, but actually POV. In other words, who says that these are the basic topics, not others (excluded) or that the ones listed are indeed basic topics that shouldn't be removed from the listing. At first glance I spotted Mental mapping and thought, "hmm, interesting, but is that a fundamental topic of Geography?". Maybe it is. And maybe it isn't. A Featured List cannot be subject to POV... and this is. So, how do you tackle the POV?

Now, I actually think that answering this question (if it's possible to do so) will answer the RS question too... as you need to find an RS that lists something that approximates to a list of basic geography topics.

And of course, it also answers the comprehensiveness issue too, as anything in your RS should be in, and anything else should not.

The list of notable geographers is, once more, totally POV and should be struck, unless you can find a RS that lists a "top X geographers of all time".

All the other issues you raise are minor tweaks by contrast with this all-encompassing problem. Crack it first, I'd suggest.

Hope that's helpful. --Dweller 10:48, 7 November 2007 (UTC) PS The External links section is too horrible for words. And the See also is very odd.

Mental mapping is one of the 18 National Geography Standards of the National Council for Geographic Education.

The geographer section is intended to list some examples, to get the reader started. How is that POV? I gathered them from Wikipedia's history of geography article.

And what is odd about the see also section?

The Transhumanist    12:09, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

(Let's keep the conversation here) Your mental mapping answer is the way forward. Explain and cite the inclusion. Tackle all of the sections on that kind of basis and you deal with all objections of POV, comprehensiveness and RS. Geographers section is plainly POV. Why haven't you included any of 1000 other geographers? Let's leave discussing detail like the external links and see also sections until you've dealt with these massive issues. --Dweller 12:26, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Because the purpose of the section is to present some examples of the practioners of the field, as a lead-in for the study of geographers. But if you need an official short list of the greatest geographers, or the most influential, or a list that is the most fundamental/basic for educational purposes, then there's probably a list like that out there in the world somewhere. This is supposed to be an introduction to geography. If examples can't be provided of one of the main components of the field (the people in it), then editors' hands are being unnecessarily tied behind their backs.

Please check "the essence" section, to see if the lead is sufficient. The Transhumanist 17:52, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

TT, I understand why you've included them, it's just that it's impossible for you to justify the inclusion of some, rather than others, as being anything other than your subjective decision. Why not (as a thought) point to daughter articles of types of Geographers, rather than listing any names at all? (List of geologists, List of human geographers, List of laddyda (I don't know much about geography, does it show?!) And Featured criteria does tie hands - you can't take a bio to FA no matter how good it is if there's no decent free image of the subject.

I'll take a look at the essence section when I get a mo. --Dweller 18:02, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Are you saying that the inclusion of examples is inescapably POV? (How else could an editor select the presentation of one example over all other possible examples?)

Does this mean that every example provided within Wikipedia's pages in the main namespace violates WP:NPOV? The Transhumanist 18:48, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

What I'm saying is that when it comes to Featured material, there's more exacting standards. Ask TRM for a second opinion? Happy to listen to his thoughts - he has more FAs than me! --Dweller 23:05, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Are you sure? Are there written FA standards on this? The featured article Hoysala architecture has a list of examples, that seems to be entirely analagous to the list of examples I wish to include. Images that present examples abound on featured articles, and their selection doesn't seem to differ in any way from how links are chosen to be examples. The way you are applying NPOV does not appear to be a standard of featured articles. I tried finding style guidelines on the presentation of examples in Wikipedia articles, and I couldn't find any. There's an essay stub called Wikipedia:Give examples. For an an extreme example of the presentation of examples on Wikipedia, see Examples of groups, an expansion page of Group (mathematics). For a treatment of examples in the real world, see List of mathematical examples. The Transhumanist    23:49, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

LOTD proposal

You either voted on the original list of the day proposal or the revised version. A more modest experimental proposal is now at issue at WP:LOTDP. Feel free to voice your opinion.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 17:32, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh great design mentor

Dear TH, I again humbly come to you with yet another padding issue. It seems that my brain has some sort of mental block, as it appears that padding is the single bane of my design endeavors. I'm yet again trying to get text to stop being bumped right up against a picture box, you can see it here, and I tried putting into place the fixes you'd shown me earlier on someone else's design, but alas, they did nothing this time. Some silly tweak I've done I'm sure, lol. If you have a minute, if you would be so kind to yet again, fix my silly padding issues, I would be so grateful. ~*Curtsy*~ Ariel♥Gold 00:19, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you so much, yet again, you've come with the magic wand and fixed it. Margin... padding... argh, lol. So, do I understand this right? Margins placed inside a box's borders, will actually affect how text interacts with the outside of the box? No wonder I don't figure it out, that doesn't seem to make much sense, lol. I would think the margins inside a box would make the information inside that box smaller, and have no effect on anything outside the box. Maybe I'm still not getting it, though (should I be thinking "outside the box"? hee hee). And omigosh, thanks so much for the hidden emoticon stuff! That was so cute! Anyway, I'm sorry to always come to you with silly little issues, but I hope you know how much I appreciate that you've always taken the time to fix them, and some day maybe I'll figure this padding/margin thing out! Ariel♥Gold 04:11, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Margins placed in a box's code will place spacing on the outside of the box. Padding in a box's code will place spacing on the inside of the box. I added margins to the box the picture was in. Padding for a box does not affect spacing between elements that are inside that box.

Ahhh, okay that clears it up, I hope! Now if I can remember it next time I run into this issue, that will be the challenge, lol. And who knew there were so many smilies! lol. Have you found every one? I've been looking for the :p smiley, you found it! Smiley 11. That will come in handy, hee hee. Okay I'm off to bed! Thank you again, Oh Wise One, for your wonderful assistance! Ariel♥Gold 04:40, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Found one you missed! Ariel♥Gold 04:41, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

No, I haven't found every one, new ones pop up from time to time. Though I don't grab every one -- I picked most of the ones on my list because they have relatively small file sizes, and don't slow down page loads much. For places to look, see emoticon, list of common emoticons, Category:Emoticons, and commons:Category:Smilies. (the last one has the most)     The Transhumanist 05:16, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I got mine from the Commons category, but honestly, even if you loaded up a page with smileys, it wouldn't affect server performance. I mean, consider that these are 15kb tiny images. Now, think about some people's signatures, lol. There are signatures bigger in size than these little bitty pictures. Granted, as I mentioned on my talk page, I don't think they are something to sprinkle all over, but I have found that with the medium of text being difficult to convey tone or intent, a well-placed smiley can go a long way towards letting someone know that you mean your comments as humor, or in a kind way, to avoid misunderstanding. All that rambling being said, I am glad you gave me the smileys and links, because I wanted one with the tongue stuck out to use on occasion, lol! Hope you're having a fantastic Thursday! Ariel♥Gold 17:50, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Auroranorth and AWB

While I understand your position, Auroranorth is currently blocked due to disruptive editing using TW. For him to access to any automated tools is counter productive. He had only just completed a period probation after being unblocked for operating sock puppets. AWB requires editors to have had 500 edits, once he returns from this block and has 500 edits without issue I'll restore him to the list. Gnangarra 12:12, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Gnangarra. There's plenty Auroranorth can do without semi-automated tools like Twinkie or AWB. He needs to show a sustained period that he can be trusted to drive a normal car before being given the keys to the Ferrari. No-one is suggesting that his editing is deliberately disruptive, but experience shows he needs to be supervised closely: when I blocked him the other day I hoped it would encourage him reflect on the damage that can be caused by careless editing. I (along with several others) will rejoice when I can take his talk page off my watchlist and not feel the need to review his activities every few days. PS: You are doing a wonderful job with his coaching and I applaud you for that. —Moondyne 14:40, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Better safe than sorry. You're right, there are plenty of things to do without the tools. Those need to learned too. No problemo. The Transhumanist    02:41, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you

Click there to open your card! → → →

Dearest The Transhumanist,
Thank you for your participation in my RFA, which closed successfully with 137 supports, 22 opposes, and 5 neutrals. Your efforts as my admin coach and your kind words of strong support are very much appreciated and I look forward to proving you right. I would like to give special thanks to The_undertow and Phoenix-wiki for their co-nominations. Thank you again and best regards.

Lara❤Love 20:22, 10 November 2007 (UTC) Credits: This RFA thanks was inspired by The Random Editor's RFA thanks which was inspired by Phaedriel's RFA thanks.

My page

Please go here. Laleena 20:32, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Please don't go. Hide out at the VC for awhile. You can use it as your base of operations. The Transhumanist    02:43, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Coaching

Note left on my coaching page for you. Auroranorth 04:37, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Food for thought

Click there to open your card! → → →

Dearest The Transhumanist,

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

—John McCrae

On Remembrance Day (or Armistice Day - Veterans Day in the US) we remember those soldiers who sacrificed their lives so their countries could live in freedom. We use poppies to remember the blood shed by soldiers in Flanders Fields, a major European battleground. The poem In Flanders Fields was written during World War I but Remembrance Day commemorates all lives lost to war, especially after the first of the World Wars. The observance is not to glorify war but to remember those who suffered. Very few people remained untouched by the effects of World War I.

Memorial services held today often include the Ode of Remembrance. The ode finishes with these words:
We will remember them.
Auroranorth 04:43, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Coaching

Am I going in the right direction with List of basic literature topics? Auroranorth 07:46, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

see your coaching page. --TT

List of basic geography topics

The list is quite clearly heading towards a no consensus right now and even if it gets more support, one really can't ignore opposition from three users. There is no active discussion right now so I could close it right now, but I'll let you choose if you want it closed now or if you would rather leave it open a few more days in hopes of persuading a user to drop their opposition. -- 01:39, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Added feedback may be very useful. A few more days would be fine. Thank you for asking. The Transhumanist    14:41, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

My personal closure policy is to leave it 12 days if it is definitely not heading for a pass, so I'll leave it for two more days. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 16:17, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Yo. Let's agree to disagree on this one. --Dweller 16:55, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

12 days is fine with me. Thank you, Scorpion. Dweller, we're not in hostile conflict, the issue at this point isn't whether or not it will pass, but feedback. I'd like to maximize feedback, so I can handle as many issues as possible before preparing the list for resubmission. Keep in mind that the geog list is forging the way for future lists of this type, both in their general design, and in their development as FLCs. That's why I kept pressing you for answers. Also, I'm on a learning curve here.  ;-) The more feedback the better. The Transhumanist    20:35, 13 November 2007 (UTC)