Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jews Against Zionism 2

Jews Against Zionism

Jews Against Zionism (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Why is this group notable enough for wikipedia, if anything, they can be mentioned in the Satmar or Neturei Karta articles Avi (talk) 23:49, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

• Merge/Redirect to Neturei Karta per nom. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 00:25, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Comment There are two old AfDs: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jews Against Zionism and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jews against zionism (2nd nomination)
  • Comment Please also see two other related AfDs as well: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/True Torah Jews and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jews Against Zionism (disambiguation) --MPerel 02:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
• Keep This pulls up quite a few g-news hits; seems to be notable based on third-party coverage. JeremyMcCracken (talk) (contribs) 00:33, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

• Change to redirect See Talk:Jews Against Zionism — [[::User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]] ([[::User talk:Malik Shabazz|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Malik Shabazz|contribs]]) 01:14, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment Although Satmar and Neturei Karta both use the name, all evidence suggests that Neturei Karta's use is more prominent. If Jews Against Zionism is turned back into a redirect, it should redirect to Neturei Karta. — [[::User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]] ([[::User talk:Malik Shabazz|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Malik Shabazz|contribs]]) 21:01, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• comment First step in dealing with this article is for it to actually say something about the group. Unlesst here's a little more specificity there's not really anything worth keeping. DGG (talk) 01:41, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Delete - Agree with DGG, if there is nothing to say that is original or notable, there is no reason for the article other than the promotion of another fringe group. ShoesssS ^Talk 02:10, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions. —— [[::User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]] ([[::User talk:Malik Shabazz|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Malik Shabazz|contribs]]) 02:23, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. —— [[::User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]] ([[::User talk:Malik Shabazz|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Malik Shabazz|contribs]]) 02:24, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Keep, unless I am mistaken, this group was paraded around in Iran by Ahmadinejad in that Holocaust denial conference, and before that threw blood on Meir Kahane. If this is that group they have lots of Google news hits. Phlegm Rooster (talk) 08:21, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
  • There are Jews against Zionism (notice lower case against) which have done both of them but this article is about a group called "Jews Against Zionism". No one is denying the existence of Jews who are against Zionism but we do need more sources about this group to see if they are notable. gren グレン 08:29, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Delete without prejudice to recreation if notable sources can be found. My searches were about the terms in general not this group. gren グレン 08:29, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Move to True Torah Jews? According this journal article, "they exemplify the complexity of the Jewish fundamentalist movement." —Preceding unsigned comment added by גרב (talk • contribs) 09:05, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
  • "Torah True Jews" may itself be a neologism and there is justification for redirecting it to Orthodox Judaism. Be that as it may, can you give the author and context for the fragment you posted? The article itself is not free-use. -- Avi (talk) 14:04, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Merge into Anti-Zionism. -- Nudve (talk) 15:45, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Keep It is its own group and is not the meshuges who parade with the Hitler (YM"S) of Iran. --Shuliavrumi (talk) 17:00, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• KeepThis is not Neturei Karta but a separate group, founded by Satmar and endorsed by all leading Satmar rabbis. However it cannot be merged into the Satmar page since it includes many non-Satmar members. User:Nat Smith —Preceding unsigned comment added by Natsmith (talk • contribs) 18:50, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

• • Comment, it is beginning to look as if the article is failing WP:V. Phlegm Rooster (talk) 19:55, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Keep – I have struck my delete opinion and moved over to Keep based on research that the group is gaining notoriety and does pass my personal assessment of Notability. The articles I found that lend themselves to creditability – reliability and 3rd party sourcing are shown here, [1]. However, I should point out, that the article itself does need a rewrite that establishes and points specifically to a claim of Notability such as a statement as provided by Khaleej Times: “…most notable example is the quarrel in the United Kingdom between members of Jews against Zionism and those of Deir Yassin Remembered.” Or the article is going to end up here, again and again and again. ShoesssS ^Talk 20:11, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment Keep in mind that there are at least three groups called "Jews Against Zionism". The article is about the Satmar group that maintains the website. There is another Orthodox Jewish group, the Neturei Karta, who use the name. There is also a secular group in the UK by the same name. A Google search is virtually useless in this instance. If an article mentions meeting with Palestinian leaders or Ahmadinejad, it's about Neturei Karta. If it's about something in the UK, it's about the secular group. Those probably account for 99% of the Google hits. — [[::User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]] ([[::User talk:Malik Shabazz|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Malik Shabazz|contribs]]) 20:44, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Delete - nothing proven besides having a website, fails NN. --Shuki (talk) 22:27, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
• Delete (this is actually the 5th AfD for this, it has been deleted 4 times in different formats), and then I recommend recreating the Jews Against Zionism (disambiguation) page that was deleted in this AfD to clear up the continuous confusion over the three different groups Malik mentioned that get lumped under this title. The group the current article is about has no third party sources confirming it is actually associated with Satmar and the website registration does not confirm who actually runs the site and therefore fails WP:V. The more notable of the three groups labeled JAZ is the nonreligious European group. The news articles that mention Jews against Zionism are not referring to the group in this article but rather either the anti-Zionist group [Neturai Karta] (they're not called JAZ but as Jews who happen to be against Zionism they come up in "Jews against Zionism" searches) or the secular group. At least the old disambig page made clear the different groups that get associated with this name, none of which are individually notable enough for their own article. --MPerel 02:42, 30 May 2008 (UTC)