Talk:United States

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Current population (est.): 338,206,000 as of August 7, 2024

Crime and Punishment Bias

Go over the crime and punishment section once again, my fellow wikipedians. tell me if you don't believe that to be a little slanted. the article mentions how high the crime rate is, but only compares it to western-europe natons--leaving out the fact that it is drastically lower than countries like russia, mexico, etc. im not asking to fill the article with some hot-air about how peaceful the south-chicago streets are at 2:00am, but i just don't belive it is written very free of opinion. let me know what yall think. Skiendog (talk) 23:00, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure that I agree that it is as biased as you may think, although I do see what you mean. There is a graph that clearly shows that Russia is higher, and I think it's only fair that it is compared to other developed nations (says developed, not western, so we just need to make sure that it is truly comparing to all developed nations). One thing that I remember reading is that violent crime in the last decade decreased, so if that is true, maybe it's worth mentioning? Kman543210 (talk) 23:11, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

The other problem is that data in Zimbabwe for statistics on violence is weak or totally absent (they have some higher priorities). In countries with less open media and government transparency, the rates can't be verified and are of dubious value for comparison. Saying that the US is, in general, more violent than Western Europe is a valid claim, but I'd agree that it could be misleading and requires more discussion and perspective than can be included in a general article. I'm a rampant emo kid when it comes to this article (obsessed with cutting), so I won't bother stating my preference for what to do with the issue.Somedumbyankee (talk) 00:04, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Global Military Presence

I was thinking that a line or two in the Military section about the US bases in conquered and occupied nations would be appropriate. If my thinking and research are correct, this is a currently globally unique situation and deserves some notice. A possible comparison could be French Foreign Legion bases in Algiers etc. As of May 11 2008 the US has fully operational and sovereign military bases in Japan, Germany, South Korea and Cuba. The main point of interest is the Sovereign nature of these bases. The current bases in Iraq are of debatable permanence to be sure, but the Ramstein airbase command in Germany, for instance has been operational and in continuous use since the end of World War II. Please let me know your thoughts. - AC May 11, 2008 MS, USA —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.24.2.192 (talk) 06:01, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

This might not be a bad idea, but I wouldn't call this unique to the U.S. I know that the U.S. still has at least one base in England as well. It might be a point of interest to list how many, or at least the most noteable, and maybe a background of why the bases are there. I'm not an expert and don't know much about this, so I wouldn't be able to add anything. Kman543210 (talk) 21:29, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Maybe something about the ethnic cleansing of Natives would work here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.90.236.141 (talk) 19:24, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Un-Super-Size Me!

I'm attempting to trim some of the fat from this article, because, as the header says, it is simply too large. Many of the sections are redundant, and pretty much all of them have their own articles anyway and don't need excessive detail on this page. Feel free to revert if you think I'm being too WP:BOLD.Somedumbyankee (talk) 04:23, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

The general desire to trim is a good one--but we need to take a bit more care. The lead properly summarizes the main text content (please take a look at WP:LEAD); taken in that light, the material you cut from the Geography section was in fact not redundant. In addition, the size of a nation is a fundamental fact--that assessments of the U.S.'s size vary so widely is unfortunate for us (given the overall length of the article); nonetheless, the issue is so basic that it must be addressed and the authoritative data presented here and not just in the topical article.—DCGeist (talk) 05:51, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Justification for removal of information under Geography:

"The United States is situated almost entirely in the western hemisphere: the contiguous United States stretches from the Pacific on the west to the Atlantic on the east, with the Gulf of Mexico to the southeast, and bordered by Canada on the north and Mexico on the south."

• Western hemisphere is noted under Etymology. For the borders, compare the intro, which actually has more information than the article.

"...forty-eight contiguous states and Washington, D.C., the capital district, lie between the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans, bordered by Canada to the north and Mexico to the south. The state of Alaska is in the northwest of the continent, with Canada to its east and Russia to the west across the Bering Strait, and the state of Hawaii is an archipelago in the mid-Pacific. "

• Next, the size comparison. Note that the disputed size is also noted in the sidebar (point 3). The text cites the dissenting source, but this seems like WTMI for a general article on the country where the discrepancy is covered in detail in the list of countries by size.

• The last sentence in the deleted portion:

"The United States also possesses several insular territories scattered around the West Indies (e.g., the commonwealth of Puerto Rico) and the Pacific (e.g., Guam)."

compare the intro:

"The United States also possesses several territories, or insular areas, scattered around the Caribbean and Pacific."

In an article begging to be trimmed down, I see no justification for including this text. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Somedumbyankee (talk • contribs) 06:03, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Just as a point of clarification, I don't have any problem with the lead (other than the quibble about territories being part of the country), I just don't see any reason to repeat the same information later in the article.Somedumbyankee (talk) 06:11, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Gun violence part

What would everybody think about sticking one or two lines in the crime section about the gun violence sentence? I am not denying the numbers, but the only thing in there that has to do with the cause is the viewpoint of some scholars against firearms ownership. I am not trying to start a fight here, I am just wondering if it would be appropriate to put in a sentence describing the other point of view. 5-15-08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.195.196.19 (talk) 15:50, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Does anybody object to me putting in a sentence stating the other point of view on gun violence? Because if not then I will go ahead and insert it. 5-16-08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.195.196.19 (talk) 17:31, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Specifically....what are you wanting to do? could you give us a mock-up? Skiendog (talk) 22:50, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm curious too. There's no debate that the U.S. has exceptionally high levels of gun violence and homicide for a developed nation. Proper scholars are not "against" firearms ownership per se--they simply identify it as a primary contributor to that exceptional homicide rate. What is the other "point of view" supported by scholarly research and analysis? That Americans are scared into violence by the venal mass media (the Michael Moore view)? That we're just lonesome, on'ry, and mean (the Waylon Jennings view)?—DCGeist (talk) 05:38, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Interesting information and well worth including on wikipedia, but for a general article on the US it's WTMI. Then again, looking at the rest of the section I agree that it currently has an anti-gun bias. The statement "gun ownership is controversial in the US" with a link to either Gun law in the united states or Gun politics in the United States would be a very appropriate addition. Americans take it for granted, but your average 14-year-old in England might not be aware of it. That's the kind of audience that I think this article should be tuned to.Somedumbyankee (talk) 06:34, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Opening sentence

At present, the opening sentence of the article is:

The United States of America is a constitutional federal republic comprising fifty states and a federal district.

What about the territories, such as Guam, Puerto Rico, U.S. Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Northern Mariana Islands? are they not part of the United States as well? Should not therefore this sentence read "comprising fifty states, a federal district, and several external territories"? If there are no objections, I shall amend the initial sentence as such. --SJK (talk) 09:45, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

They aren't part of the United States; they are possessions of it. The distinction is matched by how the Isle of Man, Gibraltar, and the Channel Islands are possessions of the crown or the UK, rather than part of the UK itself. They are unincorporated territories, which by its very name shows that they are not incorporated into the nation proper. It's the difference between, say, Utah Territory, Hawaii Territory, and Dakota Territory on one side - which were incorporated and considered a part of the country, even though they were not states - and Puerto Rico, the USVI, Guam, American Samoa, and the CNMI, which are unincorporated and are only possessions. --Golbez (talk) 15:45, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Seems fine to me. 5-16-08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.195.196.19 (talk) 13:05, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I attempted to change this at one point, did a little further research, and now agree with the current statement. The real difference is that states have inherent autonomy, possessions are subject to the whim of what Congress feels like delegating to them. An executive order tells that branch to handle them like states, but they have no inherent right to be treated that way. See the article on the territories for the details.Somedumbyankee (talk) 07:09, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I concur with Golbez. --Coolcaesar (talk) 05:07, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Superpower claim is outdated

The introduction claims "the United States is the only remaining superpower—accounting for approximately 50% of global military spending—and a dominant economic, political, and cultural force in the world". This view is outdated and simply wrong. The superpower concept has been superseded by several contemporary concepts such as this one: Waving Goodbye to Hegemony Specifically the military spending is no dominant indicator anymore, to proof a significant role in global politics. The introduction should be amended. Lear 21 (talk) 13:47, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Lear, qualified sources who believe the US is no longer a superpower are unlikely to go publishing articles/papers to the effect of "this just in...the US is still a superpower" because no academic consensus has formed that it isn't. On the other hand anybody who believes that the situation has changed will certainly consider publishing a case for this belief precisely because it would represent a change. Unless you find a source that says "it is now universally accepted that the US is no longer a superpower", simply finding a source that believes it no longer is a superpower won't be good enough. Just do a Google news search of "United States" and "Superpower" like this:

http://news.google.com/news?tab=sn&sa=N&q=superpower+%22United+States%22&hl=en&lr=&btnG=Search

and you will see that several commentators continue to accept without elaboration the idea that the US remains a superpower, even the sole superpower. What we can do is add a following sentence that states that some commentators believe the situation has changed or is changing and drop in those sources for it. Probably the best guide for when to simply state definitively that it is no longer the world's sole superpower will be when new articles stop being published which are making the case that it is no longer the sole superpower. So long as sources are publishing such articles it is unlikely the authors believe a consensus is already accepted on that point.Zebulin (talk) 14:34, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

There was a big debate about the use of "superpower" a few months ago here and what stands now is the consensus, as previously the reference was to America being a superpower in all realms - political, economic and military. It is now qualified to refer to the unquestioned supremacy in terms of military power as there is no serious dispute as to America's status there. But in the political and economic realm, America's omniscience has waned over the past few years and the intro reflects that.

And that is, from what I can gather, the current perspective. The term "superpower" is not yet outmoded, though it is in the case of America far more qualified and limited in scope than it was 10 years ago. Canada Jack (talk) 15:36, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, the term "superpower" can be informally known as being the "big dog". I think that the U.S. qualifies as a superpower still. 5-16-08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.195.196.19 (talk) 17:28, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

The term hyperpower could also be applied. This is also not a standard viewpoint, and WP:Undue applies. Unless you can demonstrate that a substantial group of people disagree, it probably doesn't merit inclusion. The definition used on Superpower, "a country that has the capacity to project dominating power and influence anywhere in the world, and sometimes, in more than one region of the globe at a time..." seems to fit. The webster definition seems to match as well.Somedumbyankee (talk) 00:15, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

"The end of the United States’ time as superpower will usher in an era where there is no superpower, but rather, multiple strong powers." MIT-academical statement Foreign Policy Principles for the Next Administration Lear 21 (talk) 01:08, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

For the record, this is the same article noted above. If you read it, it is quite obvious that it is speculating about the future. However accurate the prediction, WP:CRYSTAL applies. When it becomes true, we can change it.Somedumbyankee (talk) 05:06, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

One of the most conservative right-wing magazines in the U.S. :Post-American Global Order Emerges. There could´nt be a better reference for the new era of globalised interdependecy creating a multipolar world. The term "superpower" in the introduction has to be removed. The term "dominant" has to be amended. Lear 21 (talk) 13:48, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Good lord, no. Have you actually read the article you cite? As an expression of a certain strain of evangelical Christian eschatology, it is instructive; as political analysis, it is not unintelligent, but it is entirely useless for our purposes here.—DCGeist (talk) 15:15, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

The references are provided now (Even the funny ones of certain strain). Everybody with a halfblind eye on global developments knows that the claim is outdated. We do it now the other way around: If there is no credible source citing the USA as superpower, I will amend the intro the next days. The source should not be older than one year. all the best Lear 21 (talk) 18:55, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Reference added. It's current (updated 22Apr2008), foreign, and from a very reliable source. It even explicitly uses the word ("the country continued to re-define its role as the world's only superpower").Somedumbyankee (talk) 20:19, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Here is the more recent one:[1] The word "only" and "dominant" is not acceptable anymore. The era of a single superpower has ended, the world is multipolar now. This is the most recognized academic view around the world. I can´t change it, that´s how it is. I suggest somebody comes up with a new intro wording. Lear 21 (talk) 21:28, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

This is a book review, not news. The article even says "In his new book, “The Post-American World,” Mr. Zakaria writes that America remains a politico-military superpower".Somedumbyankee (talk) 23:38, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Agreed--and thanks for your excellent source addition, SDY. It is likely to be true at some point in the future that the U.S. will no longer qualify as the world's only superpower and a dominant economic, political, and cultural force. When that day comes, we will change the wording of the lead. But not now.—DCGeist (talk) 00:23, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

United States vs. Russia as Superpower countries

Many people are wondering about the United States and its recession[2] economy as if its still a superpower with the current Iraq war, the falling US dollar[3] [4][5], high US minimum wages being outsourced for Chinese labor, a high unemployment rate, credit crisis[6] through US foreign policy spending, US inflation[7] [8][9] from the Federal Reserve lowing interest rates too low[10], a housing crisis, dependence from oil & high gas prices and etc. Where does the United States stand as a superpower versing Russia’s current superpower status? Read at these sources here to see how the United States is losing or is now considered a former superpower:[11][12] [13]

Now there is Russia; a superpower (the United States only real counter partner as a superpower0[14] [15][16] [17] [18][19] [20] because they have the economics[21] [22], the wealth[23] [24], the diplomatic power[25] [26], ideological[27] [28] [29][30][31][32], technological power[33] [34][35][36][37]& advances[38] than any other country besides the United States (look here on why the US is losing its superpower status read here:[39][40][41]) recognizes Russia as a superpower [42], they have the cultural sector and lets not forget their military forces (supreme). Russia is also the largest military arsenal producer in the world (they hold 73% of the worlds military arsenals market) and they have the worlds largest nuclear weapons arsenal than another other country (newer & older which many are reconditioned as new again) which is 5 times greater than the US has.

So Russia is a Superpower and lets not forget a Space Superpower, remember Russia has a Mar's mission coming up in 2015 [43]to 2024, also a Moon space station planned for 2015[44] without NASA but Russia going by itself; which NASA is out of funding due to a poor current US economy, 2007 & 2008. I do not start this article to brag about how wonderful Russia is, I started it because I am an American and I am seeing how the US is becoming a former superpower; even though I admire Russia as a country, I also admire my own country (USA) too.

Russia is a Superpower, that's plenty of facts in the bag to state they are in that position. The United State's position[45][46] [47]), think what they are in for, a lot in the bag on the whole US economy on all sorts of issues, so we need to understand our Congress has put a lot of our problems right in front of us. US Congressman Ron Paul[48] was the only presidential candidate who would have saved the US as a superpower and our country. We cannot regret Russia is a superpower once again, that was always predicted they would achieve that goal and good for them, they stuck to their dreams and they brought it back. The US has done the opposite and we are heading down down the economic depression [49] tube to a great power nation because of Congress, Unions, Corporate greed and oil.{{unsigned

If you want to save the United States, stop buying from US companies made in China (look for the labels and try to buy made in America only, store like Costco, Walmart, K-Mart, Best Buy, Staples and more are companies that buy made in China goods and we Americans buy these things by the millions each day), second visit Congress personally and request to bring down the US minimum wage and request to cap wages too high to cap them or lower high salaries so greed is enforced to stop US inflation. Read here as if we don’t do something we we’ll really suffer as China’s minimum wage is $.25 cents an hour as China has used its low labor population power to put their country on the Superpower front and we made that happen, please read an listen to this link: [50] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Versace11 (talk • contribs) 00:15, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

This has nothing to do with improving the article. --Golbez (talk) 01:02, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Commenting on the remarks above re Superpower status, preceding the gratuitous POV paragraph, I checked the WP Superpower article, and see that the lede there asserts that the US and Russia both meet Superpower criteria as of 1991+15=2006. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 01:35, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Except that such a statement was actually added to that article by our new friend here. --Golbez (talk) 04:21, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm.... I hadn't looked at the string of external links seemingly intended to support the assertion in theSuperpower article that Russia "... has regained its role as a superpower once again." I just did that, and the info from those sources don't seem unanimous in supporting that assertion.

• Washington Acknowledges Russia as Superpower from KOMMERSANT (styling itself as "Russia's Daily Online", says yes as of May 26, 2007; Russia: A superpower rises again from CNN, says calls Russia "an energy superpower" as of December 13, 2006
• A Former Superpower Rises Again from Speigel online, says "Second fiddle no longer" as of July 10, 2006
• Russia on the march - again from telegraph.co.uk says "Putin wants to restore Russia to the superpower status it enjoyed under the Soviet Union" as of April 13, 2007
• The re-emerging Russian superpower from russiaprofile.org says "re-emerging superpower" as of January 20, 2006
• Russia in the 21st Century, a book review by cambridge.org says Russia "... intends to reemerge as a full-fledged superpower before 2010"
• The remaking of a superpower from BNET says that Putin "... Putin, understands what it will take to make Russia a global economic player [and Russia has] cast its fortunes with the West, militarily and economically." as of January 2002.

Boiling that down, contrary to the assertion they're cited as supporting in the Superpower article lede, those sources don't seem to firmly and unanimously consider Russia to be a superpower. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 05:19, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Just a comment from an editor who has given up on the Potential superpowers article: "Superpower" on Wikipedia is taken to mean "really cool country that is totally awesome." Expect more challenges. As for the comment, It appears like someone's trying to find a good reason for us to support Ron Paul, but I'll assume he just doesn't the technicalities of what goes on a talk page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Somedumbyankee (talk • contribs) 05:23, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I viewed these articles too, real interesting point made he about the US as a former superpower by the Austin Chronicle Texas[51] is believing more and more each day how bad the United States is economically. We hit $134 a barrel today with oil prices, $5.00 up just today.

Now Russia as a superpower is believing as well. Russia is certaintly in a good position to place there part as a superpower country. As much as what is said in these articles above, the editor is right on the button with the facts as I read them too, Russia is a superpower.--64.69.158.252 (talk) 05:52, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Ugh, I think I fed the troll. Bad SDY.Somedumbyankee (talk) 06:05, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Good points, US is losing its superpower and Russia comes right back again. A good book on Russia as a superpower is called Russia in the 21st Century: The Prodigal Superpower by Steven Rosefielde 2004 [52] The book is about Russia intends to reemerge as a full-fledged superpower before 2010, challenging America and China and potentially threatening a new arms race. Yet with the all the stuff on CNN about them saying Russia is a superpower again, I believe they already are the superpower just without the 15 post Soviet countries they once had. Personally I am impressed considering how broke they were and how Russia paid off its entire deficit in 2006 from 15 years of paying off debt and turning all the post soviet military agencies down in 1991, everything has all been funded for and turned on again, all running again as it did. Really I have to give them hands up for that and Putin, his presidency he is favored almost more than 80% (look at George Bush, he is favored lower than 23%, everybody wants him gone). The Russian’s aren’t dumb, that’s for sure but the United States and the heat of water they are in right now, nothing to laugh about now.

Russia isn't playing around; they are playing their cards carefully. Superpower indeed but the US forcing NATO in post soviet countries over the years is a violation against US's promises to Russia back in 1991 by President Ronald Reagan making a promise and look at it today, NATO is in Czech Rep, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Romania, Bulgaria, Lithuania and besides Georgia & Ukraine wanting in (just rejected last April 2008 because Russia is really angry at NATO as Russia is the oil supplier for Western/Eastern Europe)[53]. Who brought this on? The United States pushed it and that is against what Reagan promised Russia but the US has violated its promise.

Russia should defend itself from this bull dog the United States has been dying lying to Russia. These countries above shouldn't be NATO members and the US promised no NATO expansion in post soviet countries and look at the US has done. Created an angry superpower back up again Russia.--24.176.166.135 (talk) 09:07, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Also the article by CNN[54] "Russia, a Superpower Raises Again" as goes into details about how Russia was always a superpower regardless if it was always an energy superpower but it goes on to say it was a superpower even after 1991.--24.176.166.135 (talk) 09:15, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Race/Ethnicity Chart

The data in the Race and Ethnicity chart in the Demographics section adds up to 114.7%! Cmstone101 (talk) 13:45, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

If you remove the numbers for Hispanic/Latino, it adds up to 99.9%. The reason for this is that Hispanic/Latino is not a racial classification on the census, but it is an ethnic group. They can be of any race. Kman543210 (talk) 13:55, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

America is not a synonym for USA

Across the World, America is known as the continent comprising Central America, the Caribean, South America and North America. We must remember that the english language is not only used in the USA, not even the anglosaxons, let alone the Commonwealth + US. It is used all over the World. It is an error to name just this one country as America. The concept although widely used across the USA for that country is a misconception and should point to a disambiguation page. This must I say in behalf of the rest of the Americans.

Quiliro (talk) 04:55, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

America is a disambiguation page, with the Americas as the first on the list. The US, mostly in the US, is commonly referred to as "America". It's just a name that's used. It may be misleading and be Exhibit A in American ignorance of anything that goes on outside the lower 48, but it's a commonly used term.Somedumbyankee (talk) 05:10, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I shall agree that "America" is not the official name of the United States, but in the English speaking world, most people when using the term "America" are referring to the U.S. By the way, this is not just a U.S. thing. People from the UK, South Africa, and Australia (I know this from personal experience), use the term "America" instead of "U.S." very often. This is not a U.S. arrogance thing, this term was used by the British for the colonists that lived in North America since before the U.S. was even a country. "American" is the only adjective for someone from the U.S. in the English language. By the way, yes the United States isn't the only English speaking country in the world, but it has about 75% of the native English speakers. When referring to the continents, "The Americas" is mostly what is used because there are 2 separate continents, North and South America, on 2 different tectonic plates. Kman543210 (talk) 05:30, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I live in Canada and "America" is nearly universally understood to refer to the United States. I do write scripts for television as a matter of style we avoid using "America" in that sense, however. Further, if we are to refer to the land mass, one will virtually never hear it referred to as "America" but as "the Americas."

For those who this grates upon, consider this: The United States is one of the few countries in the world without a "real" name, known instead as a political description, so let them have "America." Canada Jack (talk) 16:04, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Looking at El Presidente's 2008 State of the Union address, America is used ~36 times (quick and dirty search, may have lost count), United States four, and USA once (quoting "Made in the USA"), and that's pretty typical of what Americans call their country. "United States" is rather formal, "US" and "USA" are generally written forms.Somedumbyankee (talk) 17:19, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

To add some anecdotal info, I'm a US Citizen who has been living in the Philippines for the past 12 years. Filipinos and visiting foreigners commonly ask obvious non-Filipinos, "Where are you from?" I habitually answer that question "The U.S.", and this always—every time—causes a pause while that answer is evaluated and understood. If I answer "I'm American", that is usually understood immediately. I've noticed similar reactions in countries other than the Philippines. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 19:43, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

National anthem

Is the national anthem official or traditional? Jack forbes (talk) 23:30, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Official. --Golbez (talk) 00:09, 22 May 2008 (UTC)