Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Languages in Star Wars

Languages in Star Wars

Languages in Star Wars (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Unreferenced for more than a year. No assertion of notability. Google Books search doesn't yield any significant treatment of languages, either specific ones or the clump as a whole. --EEMIV (talk) 02:12, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• Wow Notability is not the big issue (I think the topic *may* be notable). It isn't a bad piece of prose. As a matter of fact, it would make a great webpage somewhere. Unfortunately, it's a very bad encyclopedia article as it very long and uncited, and so woven with original research that you would have to delete it and start over. There is only one source listed, a book. Either this is plagerized from it, or it is pure original research. And, it might even be 100% accurate, but it would very hard to verify and take a couple hundred cites. I can't possibly see how to do anything with this article as it is. Not sure what to do with it. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 02:22, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
• Comment Gah. I'm going to ask for comment from the people at Wikipedia:WikiProject Star Wars. RayAYang (talk) 04:41, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Science fiction-related deletion discussions. -- RayAYang (talk) 04:41, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
• Transwiki to Wookieepedia (or appropriate Wiki project of one's choice), Merge a brief summary into the main Star Wars article and the individual articles of the races involved, Delete the rest. While fascinating, valuable information for those interested in Star Wars, there's nothing about this that would be more encyclopedically appropriate than, for instance, Computer parts used in the movie Brazil, Personalities of Pokemon or Swordfighting styles of all the extras in Braveheart. As with all those hypothetical articles, some mention of the content would be appropriate - even, perhaps, desired - for the main article, but a discourse of this magnitude is not needed. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, no matter how nifty, interesting, or even useful it may be. Even if the material can be sourced (and, given the trendiness and enormous mass-market appeal of the series, it's likely that whole volumes have in fact been written upon this subject), it does not de facto render the content appropriate for a general-purpose encyclopedia, any more so than the vast libraries of information about what to see in Italy would make Things to do when visiting Italy appropriate (see: WP:NOTTRAVEL). Summarized: Italy okay. Star Wars okay. Leaning Tower of Pisa, with mention of the fact that it is a popular tourist destination, okay. Ewok, with mention of the fact that Ewoks speak a pidgin of Tibetan, Nepali and various Mongolian languages, okay. Things to do when visiting Italy not okay. Languages in Star Wars not okay. Badger Drink (talk) 05:02, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

And, just to head this one off at the pass (one would hope): The reason I compare this to Things to do in Italy and not Italian is because Italian is a real language of actual consequence here in the real world. Star Wars, fortunately or unfortunately, is not, in fact, the real world. The languages within Star Wars are a lot more primitive than examples such as Klingon and Elvish, and hence are of a lot less real-world impact than the slight, but still consequential, nature of the above languages. Badger Drink (talk) 05:13, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• Not an AfD case. Look, the worst outcome for the current content is going to be a "slight merge" and redirect into Star Wars or some related article. Any of that can be handled on talk pages. AfD is when you really want an article deleted. --Trovatore (talk) 09:02, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• I disagree. Unreferenced, in-universe original research should be deleted. There is no substantive content in this article -- to say nothing of it being unreferenced -- to merge anywhere. --EEMIV (talk) 14:09, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• Delete and no merge . Although I think that this would be a great essay for the Star Wars wiki, which isn't as rule laden as Wikipedia, it's still an essay. It's overly long and not that well-organized, but those fixable things are not the problem. What cannot be fixed is that, ultimately, this is a lot of observations made by a fan of the films and novels, original research in its purest form. The worst of it is drawing a conclusion about a fictional world from a filming detail: Obi Wan speaks with a British accent, not because Alec Guinness did, but because that's what some Jedi do. Luke and Han "have American accents" because that's how rebels talk, fortunately for Mark Hammill and Harrison Ford. "Spoken Galactic Basic is identical to spoken English", or at least it was a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. I'm not convinced that George Lucas was an all-knowing Creator in the Star Wars universe. Mandsford (talk) 17:04, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
• Changing from Wow to Delete I think Mandsford explains this perfectly. I was already leaning delete, but wanted to be sure I wasn't the only one who saw this as complete and utter OR. Transwiki is fine, but I am not sure that any kind of merge is appropriate. If a section on it was needed, it would be better to write from scratch. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 17:32, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
• Strong Keep This article needs references. This is a very notable subject and a perfectly legitimate article. It already contains some good information, but needs clean-up and references. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:30, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
  • Seriously look at it, them image the number of cites it would take (ie:hundreds), and the amount of effort required to remove all the conclusions and other original research. This is one of those cases it would be easier to start over with, which is a valid reason to delete. The idea is cool enough, and this isn't a bad "essay", but just imagine yourself trying to source it. Really, try it. :) DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 12:05, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
• Delete- this article is full of original research, has no sources and reads like an essay. There are places for unsubstantiated fan speculation. Wikipedia is not that place. Reyk _YO! 19:56, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
• Delete - No assertion of notability through reliable sources. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 06:20, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
• Comment The millions of Star Wars fans clearly demonstrate this subjects notability. And I think it's a prefectly appropriate entry for Wikipedia. The problem is that the text is unreferenced. As far as being original research, I don't know if that's true or not, but as there are lots of books on the subject, anyone who wants to is welcome to add references and better source the material. But I think it's a terrific subject. Just be glad there isn't an article on each and every language it contains. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:57, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
• Comment The article also has two sources/ references now. And as someone is working to improve it I think it would be unfortunate to delete it. It absolutely needs more inline citations and better referencing. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:00, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
• Keep but userfy is recommended. I've been invited to look at revisions, including a verifiable source, and I appreciate the invitation. I'm withdrawing my delete !vote because it's clear that there is an editor who is making an effort to improve this article, and is on the right track. We have to look at why this is an OR mess. The page was created in 2002, when Wikipedia was taking all comers, and standards for new articles were lower than they are now. It started with OR, and many editors threw in their own original research observations over the last six years. There is room for an article about the use of language in Star Wars and its progeny. All I need to say is "Yoda's syntax" and what I am talking about, most people know. Certainly, it's been written about, as the Google Books search demonstrates. Where someone is taking the tough job of trying to make a good article about a worthwhile topic, I'm in favor of a reprieve. However, I recommend a userfy, since I expect that this will take awhile and that the editor, like the rest of us, is doing this in his/her spare time. Save it to your hard drive now before the discussion closes. Mandsford (talk) 21:58, 10 November 2008 (UTC)