User talk:Gwen Gale

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possible attack page

User:Mike_Doughney I fear could be read as an attack by referring to another editor as " legitimization and support of editors such as this one, who think this bit of delusional defiance of basic logic is a valid argument to make when editing an article" which I think just might be considered beyond the pale? Thanks! Collect (talk) 21:37, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

User:Collect has made ten tendentious edits on one page today, but i can't bring Mediation misbehavior to Arbitration. VirtualSteve addressed the issue [1] and [2] but Collect refuses to stop an onslaught of WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT and WP:TEND despite numerous requests over the past four months. I am requesting administrative action, as much as can be allowed in privileged mediation. ~_{Teledildonix314}~^Talk~_4-1-1~ 21:55, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Huh? This is about a userspace page possibly being seen as an attack on a third party. I doubt it has anything whatever to do with you for sure. Is there a reason why you followed me here? Collect (talk) 21:58, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Because you didn't learn when VirtualSteve told you to apologize [3] [4] last time for your conflict-junkie games, and i am showing your pattern of frivolous distractions and disruptions. User:Collect has now made twelve tendentious edits today while refusing to retract lies which they inserted specifically to disrupt our mediation, and i have told them repeatedly that i would request Administrator intervention. Collect believes they can get away with these games because Mediation is supposed to be privileged, but they reneged privilege by coming here and trying to canvass for attention on another user in the mediation who opposed the Disruptions and WP:TEND and IDIDNTHEARTHAT, and administrator User:Kevin already warned Collect about what basically amounted to WP:WABBITSEASON because of the pattern of perpetually disrupting proposed edits without providing WP:V nor WP:RS. We've been begging Collect to desist for four months, and now when they are finally being properly ignored and dismissed, they come here hoping to find sympathy for "attacks". ~_{Teledildonix314}~^Talk~_4-1-1~ 22:08, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

User:Mike Doughney put this up on his userpage over three weeks ago to illustrate how Lyonscc and Collect were playing games with the Mediation system, after Firestorm, Kevin, VirtualSteve, Benccc, Phoenix of9, and myself asked them for nearly three months to collaborate on a disputed article, and it was obviously just a matter of time until Collect would run out of gaming moves and be forced to turn to these sorts of distractions. It's the modus operandi Collect has been using for so long, VirtualSteve had to call you on the carpet but you never answered his question a month ago, and i am asking you to answer it now. Either reply to VirtualSteve's question, remove your lies from our Mediation page, admit your WP:TEND ten times today and throughout the last four months, or i will ask Kevin and VirtualSteve and GwenGale to examine the need to chaperone your role in our article construction and mediation. ~_{Teledildonix314}~^Talk~_4-1-1~ 22:18, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

User:Collect has now made their thirteenth edit tendentiously to that Mediation page, without retracting their lie, without recusing themself from the Mediation. VirtualSteve told them a full month ago "this question is not rhetorical", and i have asked them a similar question to which they tendentiously show WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT thirteen times. Is there a way to temporarily topic-ban or topic-block them, until we work out our Mediation without their WP:TEND please? ~_{Teledildonix314}~^Talk~_4-1-1~ 22:37, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Teledildonix314 I don't have time to wade through those above posts. If you want to start another thread below and in one short paragraph, with some straightforward diffs, tell me what you're unhappy about, I'll have a look. Gwen Gale (talk) 23:07, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Fuzzy thinking is allowed in "retirement" blurbs on UPs. I didn't see the diff link. That's a PA. Gwen Gale (talk) 22:59, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you most kindly. Collect (talk) 23:03, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

more

[5] = Thirteen edits to this page today, and still Collect refuses to retract a blatant lie, and still won't recuse himself from this Mediation. VirtualSteve has remained neutral and outside of all content discussions; VirtualSteve asked Collect on March 17th a "fundamental question", "And no, at this stage this is not a rhetorical question." but Collect never answers, and it deals with tendentiousness and edit-warring and obstruction of progress, such as in our mediation. It also addresses Collect filing frivolous charges of COI, Outing, etc, as a disruptive distraction whenever Mike Doughney or myself or any other editors demanded an end to Collect's WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT WP:TEND trend. I wouldn't be able to take Collect's behavior to Arbitration because, for example, the thirteen tendentious edits today are on the Mediation page, which is supposed to be privileged. But when i asked Collect to desist in their assertions of disruptive falsehoods, and i pointed out their blatant self-contradictions where i caught them fabricating prevarications red-handed, they continued to ignore all polite requests for WP:V and WP:RS to support/defend their falsehoods. I want to know if Collect should be topic-banned, or banned from our Mediation, or simply chaperoned by outside neutral admins such as VirtualSteve, Kevin, and GwenGale or any other unattached volunteers? Because this pattern today, this pattern for the past few weeks, and this pattern for the past four months, have all been allowed to go non-stop despite our protests that it hinders our construction of articles. I've never been in a Mediation before, i never even made a non-Minor edit until four months ago, i am inexperienced at these committee situations, so i have been begging for some wikipedia experts to look at this administratively. Thank you very much for looking at the situation, i hope you will help our Mediation to proceed without these kinds of hindrances. ~_{Teledildonix314}~^Talk~_4-1-1~ 23:30, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

• You didn't give me any diffs.
• Paragraph not short.
• Please don't call good faith edits blatant lies, even if you think they are. Gwen Gale (talk) 23:33, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Which additional diffs are needed? I have used green and red text colors at the bottom of that long page to point out the thirteen edits where Collect wouldn't retract the falsehood in which i caught them red-handed, using their own talkpage records. I must not have given you both of the two URLs which help illustrate VirtualSteve's attempts to assist (serious question (why do you think that you are upsetting so many different people at so many different pages, or (if you prefer) Do you believe that all of these editors have no cause to be frustrated with you to the extent that they canvass for a possible RfC against you?) and summary here). The UserContributions for Collect which point to the months-long Mediation (note especially the bright red part i highlighted to show you what i mean about not retracting a proven lie which was inserted disruptively on purpose) and Talk:Rick_Warren are my focus, but VirtualSteve was also pointing out the applicability of the problem to Collect's other edit-wars and conflict-addictions. ~_{Teledildonix314}~^Talk~_4-1-1~ 23:46, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Edit warring? Show me WP:3rr with diffs. You still haven't given me any diffs at all, not one, only links. Meanwhile my eyes glaze over when I see text like "not retracting a proven lie which was inserted disruptively on purpose." Gwen Gale (talk) 23:53, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Okay, i can see you don't want to read the pages for which i provided you the URLs and the colored highlighted text. I will wait for VirtualSteve to return from vacation, he was dealing with this for months, he will be familiar already. Also, User:Kevin was a neutral admin who admonished the WP:TEND in the mediation recently, but he seems to be semi-retired, so we can see if he still wants to oversee the mediation further. Your volunteering to administer in the event of incidents is probably only possible if you had the opportunity to be familiar with the four-month long case being disputed and mediated, so i can't very well expect you to suddenly telepathically absorb several dozen pages of conversations all at once, and i didn't mean to waste any of your time when i should have gone to the administrators who are already familar with the particulars. Thanks anyway ~_{Teledildonix314}~^Talk~_4-1-1~ 00:00, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't want to keep harping on diffs, but you never gave me any. This is a diff. Moreover, when I read the word lies, without supporting diffs, I'm not keen to read further. Gwen Gale (talk) 00:05, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

You are the administrator who unblocked Collect when they were blocked for edit-warring. I am an inexperienced volunteer editor with no specialist skills at this type of administrative activity. I don't expect you to read dozens of Mediation pages, but i felt it was reasonable for you to acknowledge your own involvement with unblocking Collect after an edit-war, when VirtualSteve and Kevin had admonished Collect for disruptive behavior at around the same time. If you want to ignore my highlighted text on the pages i've presented, and you wish to continue "forgetting" which users you have unblocked for edit-warring, and you need me to show you that edit-war in order to elicit some administrative action from you, then i don't know how reasonable it is for me to keep asking you to do things you oppose. I can simply go to the admins who were already privy to the facts, rather than ask you to examine the actions of your friend whom you feel deserves to be unblocked despite behavior that includes edit wars, disrupted mediation, and fourteen contentious WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT in one afternoon. The fourteen edits i desribe today are here as you can see, but perhaps you don't wish to see. Those are fourteen diffs. ~_{Teledildonix314}~^Talk~_4-1-1~ 00:20, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

See WP:BLOCK. Collect was unblocked because he agreed to stick to 1rr for a month. If you can give me diffs showing he broke 1rr between 3 March and 3 April, please list them. I didn't ignore the coloured text. Now you're going on the attack with me. If this is how you wontedly deal with editing disagreements here, I can see why you're not getting very far. Gwen Gale (talk) 00:28, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

If I may request of this admin some attention re: Collect please. This user has become active on a page I have maintained and expanded for a long while, namely Drudge report, and has succeeded in removing a lot of valid material from the page by policy shopping, relentless reverting, warring any changes I make, reporting me for any minor infraction (real or imagined). He has added nothing to the article, only removed data from it, often cited data, on thin pretexts that I do not have time to argue about. I find that his edits are, in general, tendentious, and not aimed at improving the encyclopedia. I strongly suggest you heed the complaints of other editrs about this individual. ► RATEL ◄ 12:00, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Following me? I would comment WP:OWN at this point. I entered Drudge Report at the start of March in response to concerns raised on a noticeboard. You, on the other hand, even revert removal of repeated words in a single section title <g> ("Alleged CNN reporter's alleged heckling of GOP senators") . All I ask is that reliable sources be used for claims, that saying "self-evident fact" is insuficient as a response, that asserting "fair use" on copyright images is wrong, etc. You may note you did not have consensus on your side on thse matters. [6] is a clear diff on how you viewed the article -- and I had not made many edits at that point. I have more -- but you appear to be the one seeking confrontation here. I stand behind every edit I make, and calling that "tendentious" when you now have 324 article edits on DR and I am all the way up to 57 <g> is interesting. Including typo corrections. It is of note, further, that this editor was upset when I pointed out the the Encyclopedia Britannica online accepted propsed edits from anyone -- and then was aghast thet the EB used my proposed edit on an article. He wrote to the EB making charges against me, which I found to be a teeny bit away from WP:AGF -- that is making off-wiki charges about an editor on an article. I refrained from any complaint, as I found it to be his usual m.o. As to the accusation of "policy shopping", he appears to be upset that his casual invocation of "fair use" is not actually accepted by WP policy. I am sorry that he was wrong, to be sure, but WP does think copyright means something <g>. And so do the courts, amazingly enough, which is why WP has the policy. Merci. Collect (talk) 13:17, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

You're both edging towards 3rr at Drudge Report. What's wrong with the talk page? Gwen Gale (talk) 14:01, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, Collect likes to make sweeping deletions of cited, long-standing material without using the Talk page. Secondly, he/she again charges me with making derogatory statements about him/her, whoever he/she is, to the staff of Britannica, something I have never done. Collect actually decided to try to change a citation we were using on the Drudge Report page. This is a serious malfeasance. You are not supposed to try to change sources according the the rules of wikipedia, but that's exactly what Collect did, and for which he/she has never been punished. I merely contacted them and pointed out that they were being manipulated by a wikipedia editor and directed them to the Talk page involved. They reverted the change. Note that as soon as Collect succeeded in changing the source, he/she trumpeted it on the Talk page diff and changed the article. ► RATEL ◄ 01:32, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm trying to understand. First, why does anyone care what EB says about anything? Gwen Gale (talk) 07:46, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Are you being deliberately obtuse to send me up? Please answer the question: do you not think that source tampering is unethical? ► RATEL ◄ 16:22, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

No and yes. Single, plain diffs please. I'm truly trying to be fair so I'll let that crack slide by with an "all the best." Gwen Gale (talk) 17:00, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

The whole story is here if you can take the time. Nobody else seemed to care. It seems to me that if contacting sources during disputes to change citations used on a page is okay and goes unpunished, then wp is on a slippery slope. ► RATEL ◄ 17:32, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Ok, EB is not a reliable source (nor is en.Wikipedia, ever), I didn't even read the whole thread, no need, skive any cite to EB, the end. Encyclopedias are for readin' up on stuff, they are not meaningful sources. What else? I do want to help you. Gwen Gale (talk) 17:35, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

EB not RS? Can you link me to that decision on a noticeboard? Or is that just your opinion? IMO EB is perfectly reliable for what we were seeking from it on that occasion, which was a general characterisation of the political bias of the Drudge Report website. ► RATEL ◄ 00:55, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

EB is a tertiary source, which can't be cited as a take on primary sources and can only be cited for the broadest overviews, maybe, see Wikipedia:No_original_research#Primary.2C_secondary_and_tertiary_sources. Speaking only for myself, I've never cited an encyclopedia in my life, was taught never to do it, but I've read plenty of 'em, it's not the same thing. Gwen Gale (talk) 12:09, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Oda Mari

Hi Gwen. I'm about to disappear from the web for 14 hours or more. If this doesn't have any effect soon, could you perhaps do something? If you disagree with me and agree with the block, as of course is your right, you could at least plonk a "blocked" template on her page so that she can use it to appeal. Thanks. -- Hoary (talk) 15:25, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

She might have misunderstood (and not read the text on the talk page warning): It's not 1rr, it's 0rr for whoever makes the edit, 1 rr for anyone who reverts it. Gwen Gale (talk) 15:32, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Erm, no, both of her edits were reverts, so she strayed from 1rr. That said, a warning would very likey have been enough to stop her. Gwen Gale (talk) 15:35, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Merci

Might you look at thesse diffs? Merci! I wish to make no false step here.

[7] (one more later -- restoring a clear copyright violation )

[8] (not consecutive) (two more in sequence consecutive)

[9] (two prior in sequence)

[10] (and three more in sequence)

[11] and two more

[12] and six more in sequence.

It should be noted that he specifically deleted material he asked me to add, of all things <g>. And that his "reverts" have been 100% directed at removing things he asked for, incredibly enough. I know I should ignore falsity in claims on cites and copyright violations, so might you tell him what the copyright rules are? Thanks! Ought I have ignored the copyvio as blatant as it is? Al;so note that virtually none of my edits were reverts of his added material - I tried as best I can to add different material relevant to what he asked for. Collect (talk) 15:34, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

What's the copyvio? He removed text, he didn't add text. I don't understand. If he's strayed from 3rr, why not post it to WP:AN3? Gwen Gale (talk) 15:39, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

The copyvio was use of a full 30 line table from a copyrighted site -- I added an RfC on it now. He used Alexa as a source for a claim about Drudge losing share from 2003 <g> by 2/3 (he quotes percent of Internet traffic as though it is a valid figure at all from 2003) and admits it is not available material from the cite he used - so he readded it without a proper source. He removed one month averages (replacing for DR with a single day figure of all things) on several sites in order to focus on the copyrighted table even where he ASKED for the data to be in the article <g>, and he has even said that saying Drudge "inflates" his users is NPOV <g>. I have carefully not deleted any of his RS cites -- whilst he reverted every single item I added in the past month -- only to assert that I added nothing <g>. If this is not 3RR is is absolutely OWN. I asked here as I value your judgement highly on this for sure. Collect (talk) 16:04, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Alexa is codswallop, rm that on sight, send anyone who says otherwise to me. I need a diff and a source for any copyvio. I think you two are somehow not on the same wavelength at all and I need to get it through my very thick and slow head as to why. Gwen Gale (talk) 17:05, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I fully agree on Alexa --- but the other editor is so enamoured with it that he refused to consider that it is not RS, and threatened to sic an admin on me <g>. He has an SPA, it would appear, and so feels that anyone contradicting him in his article space must be "lying in wait" of all things -- I just pointed out that I have several hundred articles on my watchlist, and have edited hundred that I do not follow at all. Merci. Collect (talk) 21:01, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Diff on Alexa [13] which seems, I trust, to show the attitude involved. The copyvio diff (showing removal) is [14] Collect (talk) 21:14, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

The editor specifically asked that I enquire about using Alexa on a noticeboard -- which I have done here [15] . Collect (talk) 01:33, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

What, is that a whole table copied from somewhere? Do you have a URL?

Alexa is a primary source and has a highly skewed, self selected sample base, which means any results are almost worthless as to meaning and either way must be interpreted, hence if a WP editor cites Alexa directly it's likely to be original research. Moreover, Alexa can be gamed by anyone with the resources to do so. While Drudge is one of the highest traffic websites in the world, Alexa is not a reliable source as to its traffic. Gwen Gale (talk) 02:04, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Site used is [16] On Talk:Drudge Report the claim is made that he only used 14% of the text of the article along with the entire table. I think it is pushing copyvio but he insisted I needed an RfC which is currently open on whether it is a copyvio. He also insisted I needed outside views on Alexa, which is why it is at NOR/N now. Any attempt to emend the problem is instantly reverted. HE also sought to reword my RfC saying it was not neutral enough <g>. Collect (talk) 02:14, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Looks like a straight copyvio to me. Gwen Gale (talk) 02:16, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

• Gee, I missed this section, full of lies and misrepresentations from Collect, and lots of lickspittling obsequiousness. This sort of blatant buttering up of an admin is very distasteful "<g>". Ugh. ► RATEL ◄ 02:46, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

On the topic of Alexa — "Alexa has about 16 million toolbars installed which is a pretty good sample market, kind of like taking a poll. It shows a sampling how many people view your site that have the toolbar installed. So you can interpolate the results. Of course to some people who hate Alexa, there is the possibility that out of the 16 million people who have the toolbar installed not one of them visited their site. That would be a bummer for them, but it is still a rather significant sampling that cannot be ignored." Quote from a webguru. ► RATEL ◄ 02:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

See self-selected_sample. Gwen Gale (talk) 11:56, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Request

Gwen. Please check your email. I would normally have posted that request out in the open, but due to Tennis expert’s disruptive nature, I thought it best to make the request of you so only you can see. For the record: what I requested of you via e-mail pertains directly only to stuff related to myself. Greg L (talk) 19:17, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Yep, done. Gwen Gale (talk) 19:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

• Thank you very much. There… several hours this morning wasted addressing childishness. But things are better off anyway. Greg L (talk) 19:48, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Please reverse your deletion of the userspace subpage of Greg L. I've used it as evidence at the Date delinking arbitration. —Locke Cole • t • c 19:31, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

If a user asks for deletion of something in their own userspace, short of an arbcom sanction or a banning, it's gone. However, admins can still see it and you can keep the link as "only admins can see this, sorry." Gwen Gale (talk) 19:37, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

He's put it back himself. Gwen Gale (talk) 20:41, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

My concern was not with the content, but with the edit history. It contains an admission of off-wiki coordination that is relevant to the ongoing arbitration. —Locke Cole • t • c 20:47, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

No worries and either way, arbcom members could see the history. Gwen Gale (talk) 20:57, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry, that's not good enough. I was not finished looking for evidence in the edit history of the page when it was deleted. I also believe it's use as evidence should exempt it from deletion until the completion of the arbitration case. Please restore the edit history. —Locke Cole • t • c 21:08, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I'll be more than happy to do so if there is a consensus. See WP:DRV. Gwen Gale (talk) 21:14, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure you understand that any admin or arbcom member can still see the whole edit history of that page. Gwen Gale (talk) 21:23, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Greg L, my email reply to you was bounced back to me, "bad destination system address." Gwen Gale (talk) 19:48, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

• E-mail troubles. Fixed. Greg L (talk) 20:09, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

That one bounced too. I've sent a copy through the email link on your user page instead. Gwen Gale (talk) 20:15, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you

for unblocking me. It was really a stupid of me. I'm putting my ref. on the talk page and explaining about it as you suggested. Then add the ref. to the article. appreciate your understanding. Best regards. Oda Mari (talk) 19:53, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Oh, other user has already added the reference. Happy editing! Oda Mari (talk) 20:11, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Cheers! Gwen Gale (talk) 20:16, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Huh?

Quoting Locke from above: It contains an admission of off-wiki coordination. *Admission*. Hell, it’s bragging. What does he think E-mail this user is for? Requests to babysit while I go shopping? BTW, that link takes you to Locke Cole’s e-mail address. ;-) Pardon me, but *accusations* of “coordinating” strikes me as “They had their act together! Shoot him! Shoot me now!!!”. If Wikipedia has a policy against coordinating on overall strategy, that’s news to me. Please advise. Greg L (talk) 23:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that email link is only for finding babysitters and ordering pizza. Please be more careful and keep your off-wiki conspiracies on IRC where they belong, thanks. Gwen Gale (talk) 02:08, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

• COL! (Chuckle out loud). Greg L (talk) 03:50, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

weird newbie

[17] shows a very unusual attitude for a new editor with barely a hundred edits -- almost all on ledes <g> and generally quite disruptive in nature. [18] ... somewhere over a dozen reverts in just a couple of days now. [19] ahows him as a likely SPA or worse. Has any other editor had this particular quirk? Thanks! Collect (talk) 23:39, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it's someone's sock. Gwen Gale (talk) 02:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

That sock is going to join in on an RfC on me <g>. Phoenix of9 is again soliciting for someone to back him up. BTW, Tele sent me a very strong apology in email, for which I thanked him. Should I be as thorough as I was with Ikip not all that long ago? Collect (talk) 04:06, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Collect for the RFC. It seems to me to be rather ill-formed and likely invalid? I did respond however. Collect (talk) 11:31, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it shows two editors have tried to resolve the same dispute with you but I may have missed something. The pith is, you have been a bit tendentious here and there and you have edit warred. Tip: Wikipedia understandably has a systemic bias towards the outlooks put forth by most governments in the "developed" world these days, which are a clever, skilled, 21st century mix of heavy fascism and socialism spun up throughout the 20th century, two world wars and a cold one, with roots reaching back to the "enlightenment," "mercantilism" and revolutions of the late 18th century, for starters. If one can skive away the socialist spin (hard to do, often can't be done), one is still left with the underlying fascist spin. You'll never sway political topics on en.Wikipedia away from their weighted, layered spins, since you'll always be overwhelmed by a consensus of editors educated in government schools for flawed sources written by government-paid academics. The most you can hope for is to get shreds of PoV into some articles but you can't do this by edit warring or non-stop badgering, since sooner or later you'll slip up and get yourself blocked. Some day, political and politically swayed articles on en.Wikipedia (or whatever winds up in its stead) will likely shift away from this. Meanwhile in most topic areas open editing does spin up helpful content sooner or later, so why waste your jets on a headwind you'll never get through? Gwen Gale (talk) 12:44, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Heck it shows no dispute resolution efforts at all <g>. BTW, my great-grandfather was a ship captain who rounded the Horn. Collect (talk) 13:28, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

All the same, I think you should take the hint ;) It's not worth it and you're headed towards nothing but online woe. By the bye, anyone here with European ancestors is overwhelmingly likely to be a descendent of Charlemagne (who had lots of, cough cough, erm, "GFs"). Go back only a few thousand years more and we're all cousins, so it's all in the family, so to speak and you know how families can be :P Gwen Gale (talk) 13:37, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

According to internet "reliable sources" <g> I can trace back on one side to Minerva and on another side to Thor. Can't do better than that! My cousin (a genealogist) said with only one iffy link I have a majority of Magna Carta signers and John as well, and all the major Scots royalty. Also about half the US Presidents and more English royalty than QE II can claim. Collect (talk) 13:42, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Geneaology can be fun and one can learn a lot from it. Go back 2,000 years and anyone here has about 2,300,000,000,000,000,000 folks in the "grandparent" buckets who would have been alive at that time. If you could build up a "family tree" with their names, by far and away most of those would be the same few thousand people listed over and over again, owing to close cousin marriages, which is how it was done up until only a few hundred years ago, but even so, the only reason most people can't claim a tonne of historical figures as ancestors or cousins is because documentation older than about 400 years gets scant but for the most famous families and hey, today's crop of royals in the UK is German anyway :) Gwen Gale (talk) 13:58, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

The 400 years is easy on one side of my tree -- the other side benefited from having Mrs. Beinecke insist on having part of it done <g>. Tree has one problem -- average generation is well over 30 years. (My grandmother was born in 1861). That means, oc ourse, that I have far fewer ancesters than you have. <g> Collect (talk) 14:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Heh, haven't said the first thing about meself ;) Gwen Gale (talk) 14:20, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Well -- I am pretty sure you have at least two ancestors ... Collect (talk) 15:19, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

You're forgetting about handy storks. However I was dropped down the chimney, unlike the drawing at right. Gwen Gale (talk) 15:49, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Nother

The Wurdulak (talk · contribs). Of this one i have no doubts.Bali ultimate (talk) 01:31, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I guess it's him, let's wait and see what he stirs up. Gwen Gale (talk) 02:25, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

• Hi. What is Nother? I changed my account name to The Wurdalak. The Wurdalak (talk) 11:17, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I'll bite. Nother = 'nother = contraction of another = another sockpuppet. What was your old account or account name? Gwen Gale (talk) 11:51, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

• also The_Wurdalak (talk · contribs) Gwen Gale (talk) 14:59, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Can it be clarified why there is suspicion with this editor? I was communicating with him and was curious about this exchange. —Erik (talk • contrib) 15:11, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

• I think it's because I changed my account name twice. I messed up the spelling. The Wurdalak (talk) 15:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I think you're likely User:Manhattan Samurai but am waiting to see how you behave. Mind, my worries about this should not sway anyone from editing with this user in good faith. Gwen Gale (talk) 16:07, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

• Who are you and why do you think this is kindergarten? I'm offended that you are watching my behavior. I don't know who the hell you are but you've managed to majorly irritate me with your comment. The Wurdalak (talk) 22:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Do you have anything else to say before I block you, MS? Gwen Gale (talk) 22:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

• • Please talk to Ikip. I will let you two deal with this. The Wurdalak (talk) 22:20, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

OR and POV

Well, you also may have seen this edit, and I see no evidence of you disapproving of it, neither the summary nor the content. The amount of shameless nationalistic Polish propaganda on en-WP is unbelievable. -- Matthead  Discuß   20:07, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, shameless unsupported PoV, but I'm only saying, it's not vandalism. Gwen Gale (talk) 20:24, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

you got reverted

Your admin action on the forum shopping got reverted immediately by ... P of9. Got an idea that maybe he is not acting in good faith? Collect (talk) 00:52, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm not worried about any lack of good faith, it's forum shopping is all. Gwen Gale (talk) 00:56, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I asked if this was ok to bring up there. Please do not close the discussion again and let other admins comment since you are the admin who unblocked Collect and since it is your unblock that is being reviewed. Phoenix of9 (talk) 00:58, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

My unblock isn't being reviewed. Gwen Gale (talk) 01:05, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Snce your big evidence is not even a 1RR, I wonder what you think will happen? Consecutive edits count as one, and the adding of the OR tag was not a revert in the first place. Collect (talk) 01:02, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Meanwhile if you want a smile inducing moment -- the newbie complaining against me now has this record: [20] (revert of Alexius08) 1:58 16 Apr , [21] (revert of Collect) 19:34 14 Apr , [22] (revert of Collect) 21:19 14 Apr , [23] (revert of Soxwon) 22:56 14 Apr , [24] (revert of Soxwon) 23:06 14 Apr , [25] (partial revert of Fraterm) 01:05 14 Apr , [26] revert 2:16 16 Apr , [27] 1:52 16 Apr (revert of PhilLiberty) , [28] (revert of Collect) 22:02 14 Apr , [29] (added comment on disputed matter in Talk into article) 21:29 14 Apr , [30] (revert of PhilLiberty) 19:23 14 Apr , [31] (revert of Collect) 20:41 13 Apr , [32] (revert of Collect) 20:33 13 Apr , [33] (revert of Saddhiyama) 19:45 13 Apr , [34] (revert of PhilLiberty) 17:43 11 Apr , [35] (revert of PhilLiberty) 20:36 10 Apr , [36] (revert of Skomorokh) 19:30 9 Apr . Is any impression forming? Collect (talk) 02:26, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Also at 02:22 on 16 Apr [37] -- busy. Collect (talk) 02:30, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Pof9 just did an AN3 on me as well now <g>. Are there any boards he has missed? Collect (talk) 02:40, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Dynaflow suggested he do that, saying ANI was not the place for it, it looks to me as though you did break 3rr the other day. Gwen Gale (talk) 02:45, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

It was actually a vandalism revert at that point (sigh) unless you can seriously believe a person who thinks that the US is fascist because we had the fasces on a dime? I should have simply called it vandalism I suppose. Collect (talk) 02:50, 16 April 2009 (UTC)