Talk:Berlin Hauptbahnhof

Assessment Logic

Category 1 station (of international importance) - one of only 20 in Germany.

Hauptbahnhof translation

Is more correctly translated as "main station". Main station is not always the central station, and supported anecdotally that most mass transit systems in Germany/Austria with English translations call it "main station". --kjd 20:21, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

It may be Berlin's main station, but Main Station is a rare title in English; we wouldn't call it Head Station either, even though this might be even more literal. Just as the various Central Stations in English-speaking countries are usually translated to Hauptbahnhof in German (e.g., Newcastle Hauptbahnhof), Central Station is the usual term in English for Hauptbahnhof. ProhibitOnions 20:51, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Err, is it? I've always translated Hauptbahnhof as "Main Station", similarly Praha hlavni nadrazi. -- Arwel (talk) 01:27, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I think this is kind of silly. Most people wouldn't fuss about translating New York's Grand Central Station. In fact, check out the German wikipedia's entry on the station: de:Grand Central Terminal. They don't bother translating it -- they just explain what it is. --Allen Riddell 13:32, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Grand Central would not be the Hbf in German anyway. That'd be Penn station. 82.36.26.229 01:38, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Rare as in Farnborough (Main) being AFAIK the only instance of an indigenous Main Station - and even that's misleading: the "Main" refers to the line it's on (BML - Bournemouth Main Line). The more traditional British English designation for a non-central main station is General Station - this was once very much standard GWR practice (Neath General, Cardiff General, Bodmin General, Stratford-upon-Avon General, Leamington Spa General, Oxford General etc etc etc), but now only survives in the name of Wrexham General, which sounds very archaic now. 82.36.26.229 01:37, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I originally made the change (my apologies for failing to log in properly on that occasion). I did it not only because it was not the strict literal translation but because I could not see how one could possibly call it Central. If we were talking about Leipzig or Cologne or just about anywhere else even I accept that this was being over-pedantic. My feeling was that in this case to call it Central would be simply wrong and misleading. If this was Britain I do not think a station in the middle of nowhere would be called Central. By way of analogy think of Exeter. Exeter St. Davids is a big interchange station which is the main station for Exeter. It is at the foot of a hill on which the city is situated. There is also another station in the middle of the city with an infrequent train service called Exeter Central. It is called Exeter Central because it is, um, central. Am I missing something ? I accept Main is rare in the UK but we all know what is meant, there is no confusion - and although it is rare it is (or was) not unknown. At the end of the day I am not really bothered. I just thought calling it "Central" might confuse someone visiting Berlin for the first time.--Pedantic of Purley 09:53, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Why do we need a translation at all? The article is called Berlin Hauptbahnhof, why can't we just say "Berlin Hauptbahnhof is Berlin's new main railway station" or "Berlin Hauptbahnhof is Berlin's new main railway station"? Angr/talk 10:37, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Here, here! I didn't see this when I made my comment above. --Allen Riddell 14:16, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

It is indeed in the middle of nowhere, but geographically it's smack dab in the center of Berlin. Built with the expectation that by now all the division would have been healed and Berlin would be booming with nearly 5 million people. A better name would be Berlin White Elephant station. (FWIW, Südkreuz, the new expensive second-biggest station, is also in the wilderness.) ProhibitOnions 11:01, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

"It is indeed in the middle of nowhere, but geographically it's smack dab in the center of Berlin." True. In the spirit of non-discrimination, it is equally inaccessible from all parts of the city. I live much closer to Lehrter BahnhofHauptbahnhof than to Zoo, but if I want to go there, I still have to change trains at Zoo. Angr/talk 11:41, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Regardless of what we translate its name as, it might be worth describing its location which we all seem to agree is in the geographic centre of Berlin surrounded by nothing - hence the need for U55 which might be worth a mention. As I don't live in Berlin this is the sort of thing that I don't feel able to accurately comment on.--Pedantic of Purley 14:07, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

The announcements in English say "Welcome to Berlin Central Station." Hah!  ProhibitOnions  ^(T) 14:41, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Really? When I was there last month all the announcements in English referred to "Hauptbahnhof". IMO you might just as well say "Berlin Hauptbahnhof is the principal train station in Berlin" but even then Ostbahnhof and Südkreuz are ranked by DB with equal status... Dmccormac (talk) 20:14, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

The Incident

Why does it refer to the man as a "German man"? Isn't that redundant? I mean, if this station was in the United States, they wouldn't say "an American man". Besides, regardless of where the incident takes place, does the ethnicity of the person really matter? Why can't it just say "a man"? So, yeah, I don't think that it should say a "German man". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Speyeker (talk • contribs) .

I changed the number of wounded from 28 to 26, as the source says. Trick 13:23, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Good catch, I converted the link to a reference. --Bruce 13:30, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Current news, facts always change fast. I changed the reference, but this will be the last time. --Bruce 22:59, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Why is this "incident" relevant for Berlin Hauptbahnhof at all? It did not happen during the actual opening ceremony and it was some hundred metres away. [Jan from Germany, 84.137.51.8 14:28, 27 May 2006 (UTC)]

I noticed 88.134.200.250 tried to remove the incident section but his/her actions were reverted by Royboycrashfan, a recent changes patroller. However, I believe the removal of the incident section should be a point open for discussion. In my personal opinion this incident does indeed not deserve a seperate section, although if someone were to write something on the opening itself, the incident could perhaps be briefly mentioned. It's all pretty current at the moment, I advise you to first let the attention die down. In the meanwhile try discussing it with ProhibitOnions, IsarSteve and other regular contributors. --Bruce 22:48, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I was thinking of letting it stay for maybe 48 hours or so before removing it. It's clearly not the sort of thing that permanently belongs in an encyclopedia article about the train station. Angr (talk) 22:57, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Au contraire, any mention of the station opening is going to mention this incident, and all of the news reports of the station opening I've seen have described the ceremony as being overshadowed by the incident. In future, we don't have to give any details, but it should still be mentioned; for example, "The station opened after a cosnstruction time of nearly eleven years. It was opened by Chancellor Angela Merkel in May 2005, shortly before the World Cup began. The lavish ceremony was marred by an incident in which an unnstable man stabbed 28 spectators, although there were no fatalities." ...and then move on. This is still one of the most notable cases of someone running amok in recent German history.  ProhibitOnions  ^(T) 22:02, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, all mention of it has been removed from the German article as being irrelevant to the train station. Apparently the incident didn't even happen at the station, but in Luisenstraße several blocks away. Angr (talk) 22:13, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Au contraire. Show me where in the german wikipedia article this incident is mentioned. now, i know the germans are fond of sort of sweeping away the ugly parts of their history (Führerbunker, Palast der Republik, banning of the NSDAP), but...i think the importance of the incident is being a little exaggerated if it warrants more than a passing mention in this article. maybe a split would be worth it, but i dont personally find that such a detailed explanation of what happened is necessary when its only connection to the station is that it happened the same night as the opening in the general area. 82.82.182.91 22:28, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

It was the opening ceremony, which spread out quite far around the station, and was the reason all the people were there. The attacks took place in various locations, but it was the fact that there was a big crowd, a distraction (the station and the light show) and lots of noise (the music) that allowed him to get away with stabbing so many people. I agree that it deserves little more than a passing mention, but it's giong to be something people remember in conjunction with the station, and all the media are reporting it this way.  ProhibitOnions  ^(T) 22:33, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

How Many Platforms

The number of platforms when know should be added to Railway station layout.

Tabletop 09:46, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Melbourne Central

When the Museum at Museum station is Melbourne was closed to make way for a shopping Centre called Melbourne Central, the station was renamed even though it is not "central", the main stations being Spencer Street (now called Southern Cross) and Flinders Street.

Tabletop 09:52, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Largest rail transportation hub needs defining

I can't see in the article what the 'Largest rail transportation hub' claim is related to. Is it number of passengers, area, number of platforms? [1] makes a cliam that it is Europe's largest crossing station, whatever a crossing station is. Anon user 08:04, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

I think "crossing station" is a literal translation of the German word "Kreuzbahnof" or "Turmbahnhof". This denotes a station where railways from different directions meet on separate levels. (Only?) In the area of former Prussia this a common type of station. Thus, "Europe's largest crossing station" is no predicate really worth mentioning. [Jan, --84.137.40.169 13:55, 28 May 2006 (UTC)]

There are quite a few cruciform stations in other European countries - for instance Willesden Junction, Tamworth, Lichfield Trent Valley, and Warrington Bank Quay (albeit with a closed lower level) are all on the former LNWR main line in England. 82.36.26.229 01:24, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

"Symphony of Light"

Who was the composer of "Symphony of Light"? -Mardus 13:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Map?

Does anyone have a city/railway map showing where the Hauptbahnhof is in Berlin? -- 23:02, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

There's one at de:Berlin Hauptbahnhof. Maybe someone can bring it over here, though it's in German. Angr (talk) 06:24, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

One toilet

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1868391.html

How amusing. violet/riga (t) 11:47, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

That explains the enormous line for the toilet I saw when I went to Hauptbahnhof last week. When you come up from the parking garage, you walk out into the hallway where the restrooms are and there was a huge line of mostly women waiting to get in. They don't need one more set of toilets, as they say in that article; they need at least three more sets. Angr (talk) 12:09, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Yep, have to say the station displays a remarkable lack of attention to the needs of its users (although, I should point out, this is not so remarkable for Germany). The worst part is changing trains from north-south to east-west, which is the entire reason the station was built. The two track levels are five storys apart, but the escalators are located at 90-degree angles to each other, along narrow walkways, which are lined with shops and which are bisected by roof supports every few meters. It only takes a couple of people standing still (or browsing in a shop window) to create a bottleneck. There are cool-looking glass elevators that look like pistons, but these are very slow and are usually crowded. What's more, like most German stations there is no separation of incoming and outgoing pedestrian traffic, so that there are often collisions on steps as a train arrives, as those who are trying to get to the train are hindered by those leaving it. And there is, as always, no attempt made to encourage the "stand on the right" rule on escalators, meaning that the trip between trains can take a long time.

While the stupid Ladenschlußgesetz mercifully does not apply to the station, Deutsche Bahn should have taken note of how things work at, say, Leipzig Hbf, and put in very large retail units, but the biggest store is a Kaiser's supermarket (I'd guess 100 square meters) and it is always crowded.

Meanwhile, the station is still in the middle of nowhere, and almost all the hustle and bustle is due to people changing trains; that is, going from the top floor to the bottom one, for which there is, as I mentioned, no direct route.

And one toilet. The station looks cool, but it's an ergonomic disaster. Sigh.  ProhibitOnions  ^(T) 12:45, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Having used the station for a further six weeks, I don't think my remarks above were hasty. Having no direct route between the east-west line and the north-south line (an eight-minute walk, according to DB travel information) has to be considered something of a design blunder.  ProhibitOnions  ^(T) 11:36, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

The parking garage is a disaster too. There's no clear signage showing how to get from the parking garage to the station, and as far as I could tell there's only one entrance. You ought to be able to get to any level of the station directly from the parking garage, but instead you have to go inside first and use the same poorly laid-out escalators or too-few elevators as everyone else. When you leave again, the automats where you stamp your ticket and pay your money are placed in the middle of the parking lots instead of near the doors where you exit the station. Then when you try to drive out, the signs marking the way to the Ausfahrt are ambiguous at best. The exit you need to drive through to get to the Tiergartentunnel has a big sign over it saying AUSFAHRT ->, making you think that isn't the exit after all, but that you have to turn right there to get to the exit. After driving around in circles three times, we finally decided to risk going straight ahead there to see what happened, and sure enough it was the exit. User:Angr 11:44, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

The new station is a disgrace. It is basically a shopping centre. If you look carefully between the Starbucks, McDonalds and Virgin, you may be lucky enough to find the very small, completely inadequate ticket office. A good way to find it is to look for the queue of unhappy passengers. Similarly there is a small understaffed left luggage office where I had to queue for about twenty minutes to leave my suitcase. And there is no tourist information office. Paul Matthews 09:52, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

And it's not even a very good shopping centre! (And the Starbucks, McDonald's, and Virgin are themselves hard to find.)  ProhibitOnions  ^(T) 11:31, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Correction, in fact there is a tourist office, but it is hidden in a corner so I failed to find it on my first visit. A couple more points - when you do find the toilet it costs you 80c. - There is no large clearly visible clock (a basic essential in any station) only two small ones low down at the ends, invisible from most points. - Boards giving departure times, another basic requirement, are scarce (I suppose they would limit the potential for shopping and advertising). Paul Matthews 13:15, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Anything known about the possibly infected victims of the stabbing?

Hello,

the stabbings created quite a shock in Germany and beyond and here, everyone was discussing whether or not these people could have been infected with the HIV virus. But afterwards,I never heard anything about it? Did the man's actions really infect other people? Thanks,Evilbu 19:54, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Largest station: in what sense ?

There's a dispute (or may be only a disagreement) between two editors whether Berlin HBf or Leipzig HBf is the largest station in Europe. My question is: 'largest' in what sense ? Floor/platform area ? Building volume ? The highest number of trains/passengers per day/annum ? Until this is clarified in the article, there is no clear answer....
Jotel 16:28, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

If it's the largest sum of money wasted, Berlin Hbf wins hands down... ProhibitOnions ^(T) 16:58, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

In terms of space occupied, Leipzig Hbf is the largest in Europe (83,640 m²). In terms of trains per day, I think it's Clapham Junction in London. The German Wikipedia entry claims Berlin Hbf is both the largest passenger terminal and the largest multi-storey station, but unfortunately they cite no sources, as that statement contradicts the Leipzig one. Counting passengers per day, Berlin Hbf only scores 4th in Germany, so it's a difficult subject really. The best idea probably is to emphasize that it is the largest multi-level station, as _that_ is for sure, and trying to find out whether it is the largest passenger station as well (it might be that Leipzig Hbf is larger because they have an extensive freight yard, but from my personal experience I remember that not being the case...) It's not the most important station of Germany anyhow. ;) (that award goes to Frankfurt Hbf. doco (☏) 19:19, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

where is the construction engineer .. !!

There is no mention of the chief construction engineer Hani Azer .. why ?? Dr B2 (talk) 06:54, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Requested move: Berlin Hauptbahnhof → Berlin Central Station

Berlin Hauptbahnhof → Berlin Central Station – The word “hauptbahnhof“ is not found in Merriam Webster, American Heritage, Oxford Dictionaries, OED (sorry, no link), or even on WordNet 3, which boasts the “largest English dictionary and thesaurus”. So we must conclude that it is not part of standard English vocabulary. Where we can find it is in Collins German-English Dictionary, where it is defined as, “main or central station.” According to WP:UE: “If there is no established English-language treatment for a name, translate it if this can be done without loss of accuracy and with greater understanding for the English-speaking reader.” C.f. Munich Central Station and Nuremberg Central Station. Kauffner (talk) 11:57, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Usage examples

• “Thousands of Germans have queued for hours to see a mobile exhibition on the Holocaust that was barred from Berlin's central station,” ‘’Daily Telegraph’‘, 14 Apr 2008
• “State-owned rail operator Deutsche Bahn refused to allow the train to stop at Berlin's central station”, BBC, 14 April 2008.
• ”On this vast area of wasteland around Berlin Central Station, the new Lehrter Stadtquarter of Berlin is emerging.” ‘’Germany Real Estate Yearbook 2009’‘, p. 105.
• ”Pakistan-based terrorists plotting to carry out Mumbai-style killings in European cities had on their sight landmarks like the Eiffel Tower, the Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris, as well as Berlin's Central Station, a media report said on Monday.” ‘’Indian Express’‘, Oct 04 2010.
• “An attack at Berlin's main train station has been thwarted after workers found an incendiary device before it had a chance to explode.” '’Deutsche Welle’‘, Oct. 10, 2011.
• “Travelers at Berlin's central station faced disruptions after a series of petrol bombs were discovered along railway lines in the German capital last week.” ‘’Spiegel Online’‘, Oct. 17, 2011. Kauffner (talk)