Talk:Cẩm Phả: Difference between revisions
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[[Cam Pha District]] → {{no redirect|1=Cam Pha}} – It is now a [[Provincial city (Vietnam)|provincial city]], not a [[Districts of Vietnam|district]] of Vietnam, so It should be named '''Cam Pha'''. [[User:Cheers!|Cheers!]] ([[User talk:Cheers!|talk]]) 02:51, 19 July 2012 (UTC) |
[[Cam Pha District]] → {{no redirect|1=Cam Pha}} – It is now a [[Provincial city (Vietnam)|provincial city]], not a [[Districts of Vietnam|district]] of Vietnam, so It should be named '''Cam Pha'''. [[User:Cheers!|Cheers!]] ([[User talk:Cheers!|talk]]) 02:51, 19 July 2012 (UTC) |
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*'''Support'''. When I reviewed the geography, I put the ''thành phố'' at plain titles on the theory that a ''thành phố'' corresponds to a city. The form "Foo District" has always been for the ''huyện'' and ''quân'' only. The Cam Pha in Hoi An is probably more notable than this one, but let's keep the titling consistent. [http://campha.edu.vn/ Here] is the city's site with ''thành phố Cẩm Phả'' on the top. [[User:Kauffner|Kauffner]] ([[User talk:Kauffner|talk]]) 16:55, 20 July 2012 (UTC) |
*'''Support'''. When I reviewed the geography, I put the ''thành phố'' at plain titles on the theory that a ''thành phố'' corresponds to a city. The form "Foo District" has always been for the ''huyện'' and ''quân'' only. <strike>The Cam Pha in Hoi An is probably more notable than this one, but let's keep the titling consistent.</strike> [http://campha.edu.vn/ Here] is the city's site with ''thành phố Cẩm Phả'' on the top. [[User:Kauffner|Kauffner]] ([[User talk:Kauffner|talk]]) 16:55, 20 July 2012 (UTC) |
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*'''Problem'''. I'm afraid I have to note that the present title is the result of an undiscussed move on 11 October 2011 - Cẩm Phả District to Cam Pha District which was counter the result of the only, as far as I know, RM which has been held on Vietnamese place names at [[Talk:Cần Thơ/Archive 1]] which was no consensus for such moves. If the rationale for this move is correct then the move should proceed from last stable version of this article to [[Cẩm Phả]] in accordance with the 14 towns at the [[Talk:Cần Thơ/Archive 1]]. |
*'''Problem'''. I'm afraid I have to note that the present title is the result of an undiscussed move on 11 October 2011 - Cẩm Phả District to Cam Pha District which was counter the result of the only, as far as I know, RM which has been held on Vietnamese place names at [[Talk:Cần Thơ/Archive 1]] which was no consensus for such moves. If the rationale for this move is correct then the move should proceed from last stable version of this article to [[Cẩm Phả]] in accordance with the 14 towns at the [[Talk:Cần Thơ/Archive 1]]. |
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::Incidentally, I note Kauffner that [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=C%E1%BA%A9m_Ph%E1%BA%A3&action=history Cẩm Phả 17:03, 20 July 2012 (8 minutes after above post) had a redirect edit preempting any move there], which seeing as there is a RM is in this case reasonable, but raises the question of whether you were aware that editing redirects prevents an undiscussed move being reverted when you [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=C%E1%BA%A9m_Ph%E1%BA%A3_District&action=history edited Cẩm Phả District redirect 05:38, 11 October 2011 after undiscussed move contrary to the Cần Thơ 14 towns RM]? [[User:In ictu oculi|In ictu oculi]] ([[User talk:In ictu oculi|talk]]) 02:18, 22 July 2012 (UTC) |
::Incidentally, I note Kauffner that [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=C%E1%BA%A9m_Ph%E1%BA%A3&action=history Cẩm Phả 17:03, 20 July 2012 (8 minutes after above post) had a redirect edit preempting any move there], which seeing as there is a RM is in this case reasonable, but raises the question of whether you were aware that editing redirects prevents an undiscussed move being reverted when you [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=C%E1%BA%A9m_Ph%E1%BA%A3_District&action=history edited Cẩm Phả District redirect 05:38, 11 October 2011 after undiscussed move contrary to the Cần Thơ 14 towns RM]? [[User:In ictu oculi|In ictu oculi]] ([[User talk:In ictu oculi|talk]]) 02:18, 22 July 2012 (UTC) |
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::::@[[User:Kauffner|Kauffner]] ([[User talk:Kauffner|talk]]). Sorry [Kauffner], I dont know what does it mean relate to '''Cam Pha''' in the phrase ''...The '''Cam Pha''' in Hoi An is probably more notable than this one...''?--[[User:Cheers!|Cheers!]] ([[User talk:Cheers!|talk]]) 02:44, 23 July 2012 (UTC) |
::::@[[User:Kauffner|Kauffner]] ([[User talk:Kauffner|talk]]). Sorry [Kauffner], I dont know what does it mean relate to '''Cam Pha''' in the phrase ''...The '''Cam Pha''' in Hoi An is probably more notable than this one...''?--[[User:Cheers!|Cheers!]] ([[User talk:Cheers!|talk]]) 02:44, 23 July 2012 (UTC) |
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*'''Okay, then support restore to [[Cẩm Phả]]''' All good. [[User:In ictu oculi|In ictu oculi]] ([[User talk:In ictu oculi|talk]]) 14:39, 23 July 2012 (UTC) |
*'''Okay, then support restore to [[Cẩm Phả]]''' All good. [[User:In ictu oculi|In ictu oculi]] ([[User talk:In ictu oculi|talk]]) 14:39, 23 July 2012 (UTC) |
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*RMs are not common law precedents. We should be following the guidelines. [[WP:DIACRITICS]] says, "follow the general usage in reliable sources that are written in the English language." That suggests the title should be "Cam Pha", per ''[http://vietnamnews.vnagency.com.vn/Industries/160814/cam-pha-looks-to-a-greener-future.html Viet Nam News]'', ''[http://english.vietnamnet.vn/en/business/25174/cement-industry-to-form-trade-group.html VietnamNet]'', and ''[http://books.google.com.vn/books?id=7WvOSgCHrOoC&pg=PA436&dq=#v=onepage&q=%22Cam%20Pha%22&f=false Rough Guide to Vietnam]''. Cf. [[My Tho]] or [[Da Nang]]. [[User:Kauffner|Kauffner]] ([[User talk:Kauffner|talk]]) 19:47, 23 July 2012 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 19:47, 23 July 2012
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Requested move
 | It has been proposed in this section that Cẩm Phả be renamed and moved to Cam Pha. A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. |
Cam Pha District → Cam Pha – It is now a provincial city, not a district of Vietnam, so It should be named Cam Pha. Cheers! (talk) 02:51, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
- Support. When I reviewed the geography, I put the thành phố at plain titles on the theory that a thành phố corresponds to a city. The form "Foo District" has always been for the huyện and quân only.
The Cam Pha in Hoi An is probably more notable than this one, but let's keep the titling consistent.Here is the city's site with thành phố Cẩm Phả on the top. Kauffner (talk) 16:55, 20 July 2012 (UTC) - Problem. I'm afraid I have to note that the present title is the result of an undiscussed move on 11 October 2011 - Cẩm Phả District to Cam Pha District which was counter the result of the only, as far as I know, RM which has been held on Vietnamese place names at Talk:Cần Thơ/Archive 1 which was no consensus for such moves. If the rationale for this move is correct then the move should proceed from last stable version of this article to Cẩm Phả in accordance with the 14 towns at the Talk:Cần Thơ/Archive 1.
- Incidentally, I note Kauffner that Cẩm Phả 17:03, 20 July 2012 (8 minutes after above post) had a redirect edit preempting any move there, which seeing as there is a RM is in this case reasonable, but raises the question of whether you were aware that editing redirects prevents an undiscussed move being reverted when you edited Cẩm Phả District redirect 05:38, 11 October 2011 after undiscussed move contrary to the Cần Thơ 14 towns RM? In ictu oculi (talk) 02:18, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- To cap it all, I see the town's (new) official English website spells itself Cẩm Phả - reflecting the upgrading in Vietnamese local sources we've seen in the past year with newspapers such as English Vietweek and websites like English Baomoi/VGP. It seems that these 1000+ undiscussed moves of Vietnam articles to "English names" have been happening exactly at the same time local vn sources have been improving their html and printing presses. I have added the town's English website as a source. Why didn't anyone else do this, hmm? In ictu oculi (talk)
- I just mention that it has [district] or not, I dont care [Cẩm Phả] or [Cam Pha]. However, it is a city not a rural district, so we dont need to add the suffix [district]. Pleas see all cities are listed here.--Cheers! (talk) 02:39, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
- @Kauffner (talk). Sorry [Kauffner], I dont know what does it mean relate to Cam Pha in the phrase ...The Cam Pha in Hoi An is probably more notable than this one...?--Cheers! (talk) 02:44, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
- To cap it all, I see the town's (new) official English website spells itself Cẩm Phả - reflecting the upgrading in Vietnamese local sources we've seen in the past year with newspapers such as English Vietweek and websites like English Baomoi/VGP. It seems that these 1000+ undiscussed moves of Vietnam articles to "English names" have been happening exactly at the same time local vn sources have been improving their html and printing presses. I have added the town's English website as a source. Why didn't anyone else do this, hmm? In ictu oculi (talk)
- Incidentally, I note Kauffner that Cẩm Phả 17:03, 20 July 2012 (8 minutes after above post) had a redirect edit preempting any move there, which seeing as there is a RM is in this case reasonable, but raises the question of whether you were aware that editing redirects prevents an undiscussed move being reverted when you edited Cẩm Phả District redirect 05:38, 11 October 2011 after undiscussed move contrary to the Cần Thơ 14 towns RM? In ictu oculi (talk) 02:18, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
- Okay, then support restore to Cẩm Phả All good. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:39, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
- RMs are not common law precedents. We should be following the guidelines. WP:DIACRITICS says, "follow the general usage in reliable sources that are written in the English language." That suggests the title should be "Cam Pha", per Viet Nam News, VietnamNet, and Rough Guide to Vietnam. Cf. My Tho or Da Nang. Kauffner (talk) 19:47, 23 July 2012 (UTC)