Talk:Cà Mau

Requested move

• Ca Mau → Cà Mau
• My Tho → Mỹ Tho
• Quang Ngai → Quảng Ngãi
• Rach Gia → Rạch Giá
• Thu Dau Mot → Thủ Dầu Một
• Vinh Yen → Vĩnh Yên

– Housekeeping. Restore remaining 6 Vietnamese cities moved counter result of Cần Thơ RM 2011. In the case of Cà Mau an earlier RM 2010 to Cà Mau was archived by IP before move. Vietnamese diacritics increasingly used in English language materials: e.g. Cà Mau Industrial Zone, Nghia Saigon: A History 2011 "The main port in Cochinchina was Saigon, which was connected by secondary ports: Mỹ Tho, Vĩnh Long, Sa Đéc," etc. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:54, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Survey

• support these moves were counter to a previous RM. Should be moved back. Request speedy procedural close and move.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 16:03, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose. WP:NCGN, our guideline on geography, states, "Consult English-language encyclopedias (we recommend Encyclopedia Britannica, Columbia Encyclopedia, Encarta, each as published after 1993). If the articles in these agree on using a single name in discussing the period, it is the widely accepted English name." These three references do not use Vietnamese diacritics. Here are the links for Britannica: Ca Mau, My Tho, Quang Ngai, Rach Gia, and Thu Dau Mot. See also Encarta and Columbia. Aside from a few towns moved at IIO's initiative in recent weeks, all the Vietnamese provinces, cities, and districts are currently at non-diacritic titles. Published English-language sources rarely use these diacritics, including Vietnam-based sites like Viet Nam News or VietnamNet. National Geographic probably has more experience with a wider variety of diacritics than anyone else. They advise not to use Vietnamese diacritics because the large number of marks is "distracting". Here are Jimbo's thoughts on the issue of Dang Huu Phuc vs. Đặng Hữu Phúc. Kauffner (talk) 22:16, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

• support per the result of the previous RM. ༆ (talk) 22:32, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
  • There was no consensus in that RM and the vote was 6 to 5 in favor of non-diacritic titles. We are supposed to follow guidelines, not previous results. Kauffner (talk) 22:58, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

• comment Kauffner, I would really like to WP:AGF, but it's quite difficult with comments like this one: "Aside from a few towns moved at IIO's initiative in recent weeks, all the Vietnamese provinces, cities, and districts are currently at non-diacritic titles." I took a look today at List_of_cities_in_Vietnam, and looked at their history. Below I show my results, just up to D - almost every single city has been moved *AWAY* from diacritics in the past year, by YOU (or by innocent admins, proxied by you via G6 moves). So to claim that this is some sort of wiki-wide consensus is ridiculous; if anything, the consensus of article creators and editors was to leave these with diacritics, and your +1000 pages moved over the past year goes against that trend.[1],[2],[3],[4],[5],[6],[7],[8],[9]. I will also note here for the record that Viet Nam News, one of the largest english-language newspapers in Vietnam (and a source pointed to by Kauffner above and in many other remarks), publishes its paper version using diacritics [10]--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 01:51, 24 July 2012 (UTC)