Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Rhode Island Red.2

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Users should not edit other people's summaries or views, except to endorse them. All signed comments other than your own view or an endorsement should be directed to Talk:Frank L. VanderSloot.

See also: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Rhode Island Red

Statement of the dispute

Incivility by User:Rhode Island Red, as noted below.

Desired outcomes

All user parties to this RFC agree to the following:

1. Maintain Civility on the Talk Page, in Edit Summaries and during Dispute Resolution.
2. Use Edit Summaries only to summarize editing and, if referring to other editors, to be civil at all times.
3. Make no accusations of tag-teaming without offering specific evidence thereof.

In addition, I personally would like an apology from Rhode Island Red, posted on the Talk:Frank L. VanderSloot page, for each and every time he has been impolite to me. GeorgeLouis (talk) 12:31, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Description

User:Rhode Island Red (RIR) has been extremely impolite and aggressive and has evidenced a feeling of WP:Ownership of the Frank L. VanderSloot article. RIR's edits have been so frequent and disruptive that other editors are hard-pressed to make improvements to the article. Occasionally these other editors get a bit testy in response.

Evidence of disputed behavior

Some pertinent remarks by Rhode Island Red are in boldface below.

Civility, personal attacks

Policy or guideline contravened: Wikipedia:Civility

Stated simply, editors should always treat each other with consideration and respect. In order to keep the focus on improving the encyclopedia and to help maintain a pleasant editing environment, editors should behave politely, calmly and reasonably, even during heated debates.

Policy or guideline contravened: Wikipedia:No personal attacks

Do not make personal attacks anywhere in Wikipedia. Comment on content, not on the contributor. Personal attacks do not help make a point; they only hurt the Wikipedia community and deter users from helping to create a good encyclopedia. Derogatory comments about other contributors may be removed by any editor. Repeated or egregious personal attacks may lead to blocks.

Essay contravened: Wikipedia:Tag team

Unsubstantiated accusations of tag teaming are uncivil. Care should be taken to frame assertions in an appropriate way, citing evidence in the appropriate venues, following our dispute resolution process.

In Talk space

Talk:Frank_L._VanderSloot#Jody_May_Chang

Are you blind or just being obstructive as usual? . . . Please stop wasting everyone's time with this pointless griping and tendentious editing. Rhode Island Red (talk) 8:09 pm, 5 November 2012, last Monday (2 days ago) (UTC−8)

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Talk:Frank_L._VanderSloot/Archive_1#Reverting_to_stable_version

. . . either you're very bad at counting to three, or you're lying on purpose. You're lucky that you haven't been blocked for WP:3RR. Deception won't help you win any arguments here. Rhode Island Red (talk) 2:38 pm, 11 September 2012, Tuesday (1 month, 20 days ago) (UTC−7)

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Talk:Frank_L._VanderSloot/Archive_1#bold_edits_changing_the_stable_version_from_27_July

Could you possibly have said anything more shallow and non-constructive? Seriously, I have no patience for the use of BS to influence content debates. Rhode Island Red (talk) 10:23 pm, 8 September 2012, Saturday (1 month, 23 days ago) (UTC−7)

It seems that your hypocrisy filter is set on zero. Rhode Island Red (talk) 8:08 am, 11 September 2012, Tuesday (1 month, 21 days ago) (UTC−7)

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Talk:Frank_L._VanderSloot#Strassel.E2.80.99s_POV_Problem

Bear in mind that the WP Project Conservatism crew (eg, GeorgeLouis, Collect, Andrewman327) have campaigned relentlessly . . . . Yet another comment from WP Project Conservatism editor. We already know what the WP Project Conservatism editors' POV is on the issue. Rhode Island Red (talk) 7:17 am, 16 November 2012, last Friday (5 days ago) (UTC−8)

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Talk:Frank_L._VanderSloot/Archive_2#Need_for_consensus_._._.

A small cadre of partisan editors and SPA/socks keep arbitrarily raising the bar higher and higher . . . I will go straight to ArbCom and request that the offenders be blocked. It’s just that simple; and it’s what the situation warrants. Rhode Island Red (talk) 2:06 pm, 11 September 2012, Tuesday (1 month, 20 days ago) (UTC−7)

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Talk:Frank_L._VanderSloot#BLP

Please stop wasting everyone's time. Rhode Island Red (talk) 11:23 am, 14 September 2012, Friday (1 month, 17 days ago) (UTC−7)

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Talk:Frank_L._VanderSloot#edit_request

take your petty vindictive bloviating elsewhere. [Unsigned comment by Rhode Island Red.]

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Talk:Frank_L._VanderSloot/Archive_2#Philanthropy

Maybe you could try providing some of those...um....what are the called again...oh yeah...LINKS! Or should we just put in a sentence in the article that says "what they do is legitimately philanthropic" and cite "Andrewman327" next to the claim? Rhode Island Red (talk) 18:17, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

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On Notice Boards

[1] Your off-topic moaning and wailing is pointless. Back off with the harassment or I will file a long overdue user conduct dispute regarding both of you. Smarten up.

Soapboxing

Policy or guideline contravened: Wikipedia:NOTFORUM#Wikipedia is not a soapbox or means of promotion

Wikipedia is not a soapbox, a battleground, or a vehicle for propaganda, advertising and showcasing. This applies to articles, categories, templates, talk page discussions, and user pages.

[2] It is a fact that VanderSloot is being audited by the IRS, but it’s not a fact that the audit was retributive, as right-wing talking heads like Strassel, Hannity, and FOX News alleged. . . . Lots of sources covered these events in a neutral manner (reporting just the facts without the accusations), so giving undue weight to the hysterical right-wing sources is inappropriate (i.e, it is a biased minority opinion). . . . Just be aware, as I pointed out already, that if you propose to mention these muckraking op-eds, they will have to be balanced by other sources that objected strongly to Strassel's dirt throwing accusations.

Misuse of the Edit Summary

Communal consensus contravened: Wikipedia:Edit summary

Avoid inappropriate summaries. Editors should explain their edits, but not be overly critical or harsh when editing or reverting others' work. This may be perceived as uncivil, and cause tension or bad feelings, which makes collaboration more difficult. Explain what you changed, and cite the relevant policies, guidelines or principles of good writing, but try not to target or to single out others in a way that may come across as an attack or an insult.

[3] "be specific; this isn't a soapbox"

[4] "-please stop removing reliable sources and don't edit war"

[5] explained why the video violates WP:BLP one more time for the hard of reading

[6] ‎Political campaign financing: Don't be ridiculous. Open ended accusatory question like this are decidedly non-encyclopedic. Be careful about lowering the bar, as it could come back to bite you.

[7] ‎Link to Heritage Foundation video: defense of linking to Heritage Foundation video has no merit with respect to WP:RS or the clear WP:BLP violation. Stop ignoring the elephant in the room please.

[8] pettiness, red herring -- stay on topic

Assuming good faith

Behavioral guideline not followed: Wikipedia:Assume good faith

Unless there is clear evidence to the contrary, assume that people who work on the project are trying to help it, not hurt it. If criticism is needed, discuss editors' actions, but avoid accusing others of harmful motives without clear evidence.

[9] your buddy's disruptive behavior . . . you two are marching in lockstep, as you always do (which is why I referred to your history of collusion and obstruction). . . . as George alleged in his trumped up accusation. . . . If there were a barnstar for hypocrisy...

Applicable policies and guidelines

{List the policies and guidelines that apply to the disputed conduct}

1. Wikipedia:Disruptive editing
2. Wikipedia:Civility
3. Wikipedia:No personal attacks
4. Wikipedia:NOTFORUM#Wikipedia is not a soapbox or means of promotion
5. Wikipedia:Assume good faith

Evidence of trying and failing to resolve the dispute

Attempts by certifier No. 1 GeorgeLouis

1. [10]] "Hello, Red ! I wonder if it would be possible to reach a compromise in the VanderSloot article; that is, regarding the MLM dispute. I propose deleting the phrase from the lede paragaph and inserting a separate subheader into the body of the story that will give "both sides" of the dispute. Frankly, I would like to see the whole issue abandoned, but I can see now that would not be possible. What do you say? Sincerely,"
2. [11] "Thank you for the above statement. I am joining User:Collect in seeking your cooperation in adhering to Wikipedia:Civility, and I certainly hope that you will apologize to both of us. Yours in Wikidom,"
3. [12] "I agree with Iselilja, RIR. "Please refrain from baseless personal attacks." Actually, please refrain from personal attacks, period. I have a compendium of some of your personal attacks and will share it with you on your Talk Page, if you feel it might be helpful to you. Or I could send it in a private e-mail that no one else would see. Perhaps my doing so would help further the project by making you aware of how I at least feel about the remarks you have been making either here or in the Edit Summaries."
4. [13] Red: I call to your attention WP:Civility and would appreciate an apology for your peremptory remark, or at least an explanation for such language. In my view, "Move on now and be cooperative" is really counterproductive and makes all editors wince. It made me wince, and I am fairly well inured to such a gibe ("an insulting or mocking remark; a taunt").
5. [14] Red, this is the place to talk to you about your User Conduct, as you made so clear when you told me to stay away from your User Page, so I will say right now that your use of the words "perceived slights" and "counterproductive" is really offensive to me, as they would be to most people, and I again ask you to review WP:Civility, which states "Participate in a respectful and considerate way, and avoid directing offensive language at other users. Do not ignore the positions and conclusions of others."

Attempts by certifier No. 2 Collect

Rhode Island Red exhibits "ownership" of the BLP in question: [15] 360 article edits, 203 talk page edits to a single article, or a huge percentage of all edits thereto, making up about 10% of his total activity on Wikipedia. More than half of his edits are on a single topic "health foods and claims".

He has repeatedly edit warred on the article - see [16] and [17] and [18] and [19]

His typical reaction is [20] with the response to an admin of removing trumped up 3RR allegations

The article was discussed at DRN with the result: [21]

The case has gone on for ten days and should be closed by now, as partially resolved. There is a rough consensus not to include the paragraph on the 1997 warning letter, which was the original issue that was brought to DRN. The Rolling Stone and Slate articles don't explicitly mention the 1997 letter, but do refer to the controversy over Melaleuca's supplements.

RIR did not abide by the DRN result. I disagree that violation of WP:UNDUE has been demonstrated. Any proposals for changes in the wording should be discussed in order to resolve the dispute (quoting RIR) [22] shows his iterated and ongoing behaviour on this issue which had been resolved weeks earlier.

He then asserts "tag team" over and over ... [23] he asserts that an RS "scrubbed" an article and had to be shown he greatly misapprehended what he was reading. [24] has RIR state: Some input from editors independent of the Conservative project is needed. (Collect: I am not a member of any such project, by the way)

[25] shows another example of his attacks: BTW, I've been pleading to get more objective eyes on the article because it would put a stop to the tag tag teaming, POV pushing, and tendentious editing that's been taking place, [26] . He colludes with 2 other members of Project Conservatism, [27] Two editors from the "conservative" block have made two attempts ... There is absolutely no valid reason to delete this term from the article and if the attempts to whitewash it continue, the COI/user conduct will be brought to the attention of the admins. This hyper-partisan disruptive POV pushing cannot continue unchecked.

RIR loves to threaten as well: [28] That's preposterous George. I did not call Collect a dick. I did not violate 3RR. Your off-topic moaning and wailing is pointless. Back off with the harassment or I will file a long overdue user conduct dispute regarding both of you. Smarten up, right after: [29] Read WP:DONTBEADICK please. Also, note that I said that you were “involved” with WP Project Conservatism, which is a fact; there’s no need for such an emphatic denial of something that wasn’t said. In fact, your POV pushing has been an ongoing concern there, as indicated by comments like: "I'd like to point out that Collect's behavior is why there's a problem. He's a conservative editor who viciously and falsely attacks anyone who criticizes WikiProject Conservatism."[30]. And yes, I do consider your trumped up 4RR accusation to be a witch-hunt, and a waste of everyone’s time, since it’s obvious that I didn’t violate 4RR. You and George together use these retributive accusations to obstruct work on the page and intimidate opposition. It's time to straighten up and fly right

[31] Like I said, pointless tag-team witch-hunt. An apology after the fact doesn't make up for the hassle or wasted resources. This is emblematic of a chronic problem.

[32] Collect failed to identify himself as an involved participant, and his off-topic ad hominem and suggestion that I'm "rather upset" about some prior incident was entirely predictable given that he and George Louis (both members of the NPOV-challenged WP Project Conservatism)[33] have been marching in lockstep on the VanderSloot article, and one always pops in to back up the other in virtually every dispute. Together they have been trying to game the system and whitewash the article since long before I first visited the Vandersloot page. ... Collect has probably racked up 200 comments on the article's Talk page alone and still hasn't contributed more than a sentence or two to the entire article. If there were a barnstar for obstructionism... (my 'total' edit count on the talk page (including typo fixes) is under fifty! and my edit count on the article was on the same order - mainly removing blatant WP:BLP violations.)

But background details aside, notice how Collect's mudlslinging has no bearing whatsoever on the 3RR issue

In short, he iterates claims of "collusion" and "tag-team", of acting wihout good faith in pointing out his repeated edit war and battleground attitude, he uses WP:DICK in an insulting and puerile manner, and he makes threats in many places (I went back scarcely more than two weeks for most of this - and it goes back for months now!)

In short - plenty of evidence that DRN was used - and he rejected the result, that he has been repeatedly asked not to claim "tag team" but he continues to do so, that he denied misusing WP:DICK which is belied by his own words, and I did not even have to go back far to show it is all current and ongoing.

He removes all warnings from his UT page, and seems to think that his continued incivility is of no account. Collect (talk) 17:07, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Comment anent RIR's "summary": This "summary" is misleading utterly -- making a point that I "posted" on a project page is not the same as being a member of the project, and RIR knows it, has been repeatedly told he is purveying a falsehood, is repeating his invcivility on the RFC/U for gosh sakes! He iterates the silly "tagteam" charge which he has been told requires evidence and should not be used in namecalling posts, else is uncivil mudslinging in the first place. In short - he provides evidence against himself here - which I find vastly amusing. Cheers. Collect (talk) 19:20, 22 November 2012 (UTC) (had been placed under "comments" after his response - he "endorsed" his own summary, and left a place for others to "endorse" - I count this as a "non-endorsement" of a summary which shows precisely his problems on Wikipedia. Cheers. Collect (talk) 03:52, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

@Buku: Please remove your blatant personal attack. I am quite specifically not "far right" and I have no "agenda" here other than following the requirements of WP:BLP. I have a partial list of articles I follow on my user page - I suggest you read it. Cheers. Collect (talk) 16:42, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Other attempts

1. [34] "I added the sentence. Rhode Island Red, if you already have the sources that object to Strassel, by all means add them for balance." User:HtownCat
2. [35] "No matter what your opinion of VanderSloot's actions, we still can't misquote him. The current article is not representing both sides of the issue and including his full quote will help provide balance. Whether you “see a pattern” in VanderSloot’s actions or not, let’s just add information to this article that comes directly from sources and leave it at that. Wikipedia is not a battleground for personal politics." User:HtownCat
3. [36] "Civility, Rhode Island Red; Assume Good Faith. And I suggest you stop edit warring, the article has already been put on SYSOP lock." Jeremy112233
4. [37] ". . . stop being uncivil." Jeremy112233
5. [38] "Please retract your statement and please refrain from further personal attacks. There was an invitation to comment and I did. No reason at all for you to get incivil just because I happened to have another view than yours." User:Iselilja
6. [39] "Again - please read WP:NPA. You seem unable to make a single post without making it a personal attack. And drop the grossly uncivil claim of "tag teaming" as it has been found to be uncivil many times now. Cheers. User: Collect
7. [40] "For the last time - there is no tagteam trying to get at you. There is no conspiracy or "clique" aiming at your back. There is no "single voice on every issue" here. There is no cabal trying to put you down. There is no collusion between editors all of whom are "against you." Is this finally clear? Cheers. Collect

Users certifying the basis for this dispute

{Users who tried and failed to resolve the dispute}

GeorgeLouis (talk) 15:37, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Collect (talk) 17:07, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Other users who endorse this summary

1. I endorse this summary. Rhode Island Red's WP:Ownership actions have gone on for months. He/she seems to be pushing a political agenda and accusing those trying to make the article more encyclopedic as conspiring "conservatives." HtownCat (talk) 21:59, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
2. I agree with the summary's presentation of events. I first became aware of Rhode Island Red at the BLP noticeboard regarding the Frank L. Vandersloot article. Since then I have been watching the talk page and tried to participate but was chased away by the battleground atmosphere created primarily by Rhode Island Red. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 17:58, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Response

This section is reserved for the use of the user whose conduct is disputed. Users writing other sections ("Statement of the dispute" and "Outside Views") should not edit the "Response" section, and the person writing this section should not write a view below. Anyone is welcome to endorse this or any other view, but no one except the editor(s) named in the dispute may change the summary here.

This is a malformed myopic RfC. The primary editors involved (George Louis and Collect) are throwing spaghetti at the wall and hoping that something sticks. The RfC bypasses the real crux of the issue, which is a longstanding editorial dispute, as well as serious user conduct issues on their part (e.g., WP:DE, WP:TAGTEAM, WP:OWN, POV-pushing, and abuse of WP P&Ps). These two editors, both contributors to WP Project Conservatism,[41][42] have been trying to POV push and whitewash the article (about a somewhat controversial conservative political figure) since July of this year -- this would be readily apparent to any NPOV editor who undertakes the monumental task of reviewing their contributions to the article and weak/contentious/tendentious comments on the Talk page. There have been several overt incidents of gaming the system. Recently, other editors from the ‘conservative bloc’ have been piling on to influence the outcome of content discussions on the Talk page, which I might not object to if the comments weren’t so utterly lacking in substance (i.e., simple me-too comments) and basis in WP policy.

I’ve pointed out a few examples of the problematic behavior on the Talk page, and I hoped that calling attention to it (as per the suggestion in “Dealing with biased contributors” under WP:NPOVFAQ) would put an end to the user conduct issues and chronic obstructionism. It didn’t. Since then, I have made it abundantly clear I would not be belaboring the user conduct issues on the talk page because it’s not the appropriate venue, and that if the problems persist, it will inevitably result in a user conduct complaint and/or a request for ArbCom for resolution.[43][44] Apparently this RfC was a preemptive and punitive measure on their part (timed on the eve of Thanksgiving for maximum inconvenience). It comes on the heels of 3 failed attempts (in the past 3 weeks) on their part trying to nail me for a 3RR violation. It has now become an issue of WP:HARRASS, which necessitates urgent remedial action.

Because this RfC is malformed and ignores the larger editorial and user conduct issues, and because RfCs are non-binding, I would like to see the entire issue go to ArbCom where the outcome would be binding, so that the matter can be resolved definitively and that these time-wasting exercises will end once and for all. There is simply too much of an air of collusion going on now to ever expect fair treatment of the matter through conventional DR processes, so the involvement of ArbCom and input from neutral admins is the only appropriate remedy. Rhode Island Red (talk) 19:12, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Users who endorse this summary:

1. Rhode Island Red (talk) 19:12, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
2. A group of conservative editors trying to remove their opponent. Collect is a far right POV pusher and long-term edit warrior (for "long-term" see for example Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Collect#Edit_warring from May 2009, newer examples of edit warring are also available) on conservatism and American "culture war" and related articles. There are numerous examples where Collect uses WP:BLP policy as an excuse for advancing his political agenda (see for example this discussion on WP:BLPN where User:Hipocrite sums it very well).--В и к и T 16:15, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Views

This section is for statements or opinions written by users not directly involved with this dispute, but who would like to add a view of the dispute. Users should not edit other people's summaries or views, except to endorse them. All signed comments other than your own view or an endorsement should be directed to Talk:Frank L. VanderSloot. Users editing other sections ("Statement of the dispute" or "Response") should not normally edit this section, except to endorse another person's view.

Outside view by Keithbob

I first became aware of Rhode Island Red at the BLP noticeboard regarding the Frank L. VanderSloot article. Since then I have been watching the talk page and have tried to participate in the discussion but was chased away by the battleground atmosphere created primarily by Rhode Island Red who assumes bad faith, uses chronic incivility/personal attacks and battleground tactics to dominate disputes. Here is one talk page discussion thread from earlier this month where Rhode Island Red is mean spirited and overly aggressive despite being unprovoked, receiving an admission from an editor who made a mistake and a respectful warning:

• If I am mistaken in my research, just respond here. Thank you. GeorgeLouis (talk) 03:01, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
• Are you blind or just being obstructive as usual? ……Please stop wasting everyone's time with this pointless griping and tendentious editing. Rhode Island Red (talk) 04:09, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
• You are right; I missed that reference, ……..As I mentioned, anybody can correct me here. But nicely, please. GeorgeLouis (talk) 04:33, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
• I can't even dignify that with a response, it's so ridiculous. Stop being disruptive please. Rhode Island Red (talk) 04:36, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
• Although it is often difficult when editing a contentious article, we should always assume good faith, remain civil and be patient with each other. Its also important to stay on the topic of content and avoid making derogatory comments about editor behavior...-- — Keithbob • Talk • 19:10, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
• I deleted the two sentences again, for the reasons given above. GeorgeLouis (talk) 14:14, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
• Did you miss the part where KeithBob said "discuss those sources here and gain consensus". Was that asking too much? Rhode Island Red (talk) 16:13, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

As a community, I don't think we should tolerate aggressive and disruptive behavior that destroys the collaborative process, chases away good editors who don't have the stomach for battleground editing and brings out the worst in the ones that stick around.

Users who endorse this summary:

1. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 18:28, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
2. Collect (talk) 19:21, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Outside view by Jeremy112233

As my comments have been utilized as points of evidence in this claim, I feel I should respond.

I agree with both parties on certain points. In my experience I have found Rhode Island Red (RIR) to be very aggressive about his/her edits and unwilling to communicate about why they believe references that do not back up RIR's own opinion cannot be added to the article without them reverting them. I believe RIR purposely deletes reliable sources because of his own intuition, rather than Wikipedia policy, and then tries to find a way of justifying it, and that this is the source of most of the user's uncivil behaviour--attacks on editor's that question the user's editorial decisions.

However when consensuses are made on the talk page, Rhode Island Red has begun to respect them more than in the past, which I find encouraging. RIR also recently posted a personal comment for me on the talk page of the article in question that I saw as an effort to make peace during an instance where I believed he was in the right on the page, an effort the user did not have to make and to me was an example of some willingness to work with others. There is a deficit of trust between editors here, which I see no reason for. RIR is correct about the large amount of negative sources that exist, but the other editors are correct that the accuracy of what many of these articles puts forward is tenuous, and that RIR has refused neutral or positive sources because negative sources also exist. I do support RIR's right to continue to address his concerns with the article even if he is in the minority opinion on the page; but I see no evidence whatsoever that there is a POV push as RIR claims there is. I simply see individuals questioning the wisdom of only leaning away from an NPOV towards the negative on a BLP page, and not treating this BLP with the care that any BLP deserves.

I also support Rhode Island Red's request to take this issue to Arbcom (mediation would probably be better and less confrontational) as soon as possible, so that all sides can be heard as this situation has dragged out for months and wasting many hundreds of hours that could have been used more constructively on the site. I have not been heavily involved with the editing of this article, so I leave it up to closer parties to judge the merits of this case, but I hold out hope that cooperation can take place as I believe all editors involved are very passionate about improving the article and have no intention of white-washing or, conversely, creating an attack page. Jeremy112233 (talk) 20:54, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Users who endorse this summary:

1. partial endorse.--В и к и T 16:28, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Outside view by Bbb23

I write only in response to User:Wikiwind's allegations about User:Collect. When making what amounts to a personal attack on another editor, you must at least support the allegations with diffs.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:27, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Regarding the two links provided by User:Wikiwind, I don't believe that either supports the accusation of "far right POV pusher". In the 2009 RfC, the closing admin alludes to what other editors may think ("without some editors believing from the outset that his BLP edits are stirred by something other than BLP policy"), but there's no finding by the admin as to POV-pushing. The RfC involves mainly edit-warring. As for the link to the more recent BLPN discussion, that's just accusations by specific users. Users, just like Wikiwind, make all sorts of accusations; that doesn't make them true. BTW, I should say that I have no idea where on the political spectrum Collect lies and don't care much, either. I concentrate on policy and violation of policy, not on agendas, unless they are a lot more blatant than anything Wikiwind has come up with and they interfere with an editor's ability to edit positively on Wikipedia.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:53, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Users who endorse this summary:

1. Andrew (talk) 19:29, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
2. GeorgeLouis (talk) 20:10, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Comment:

The 2009 RfC/U was heavily CANVASSED for 14 editors to front-load the process. Some of those editors are now banned as sockmasters and the like. The official reason for the RfC was the mediation for Rick Warren and I suggest that anyone reaing the mediation pages will see where the problem lie. There was, in fact, no evidence of "edit war" on my part on the Rick Warren article. [45] shows the position one antagonist actually ended up with - Unfortunatly on wikipedia, editors are so partisan, biased, that you consistent position on wikipedia is not only unusal, it is inconsistent with the way editors are here. Which I took as an admission from Ikip (the drafter of the RfC/U) that the RfC/U was rather badly flawed. Cheers. Collect (talk) 22:15, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Outside view by Iselilja

From Rhode Island Red´s response above:

“There have been several overt incidents of gaming the system. Recently, other editors from the ‘conservative bloc’ have been piling on to influence the outcome of content discussions on the Talk page, which I might not object to if the comments weren’t so utterly lacking in substance (i.e., simple me-too comments) and basis in WP policy.”

I will respond to this as I happened to get such an accusation directed at me when I made one comment as a response to a RfC set up on the VanderSloot talk page. The accusation was based simply in the fact that I preferred the expression “advertisements again” instead of “attack ads” in the lead section of the VS article. With all due respect; there appears to be a certain kind of paranoia when one can interpret such a trivial position as evidence that the commenter belongs to some conservative conspiracy on Wikipedia.

To make this very clear: I do not belong to any conservative bloc (and am not and have never been part of the Conservative project group). There is no conservative agenda in my Wikipedia editing, which any reasonable user looking into my contributions will easily see. Nobody influenced me to comment on the VanderSloot page; I have never discussed VanderSloot with anybody, neither on or off Wikipedia and have no particular interest in the subject. There is an apparent shingling in glasshouse when an editor who has been fighting over this article for months accuses me - who have made exactly one edit to the article and one comment on the talk page (plus a follow-up to accusations) - as being the one with an agenda relating to VS.

It´s very important to underline that accusations of agenda or bias editing should not be thrown out lightly, but only when there is a valid reason for concern. Otherwise, such accusations cause a whole lot of unnecessary distress and disturbance which take the focus away from building the encyclopedia. And making the accusation in an article talk page is especially unfortunate, as one can´t defend oneself against the accusation without making the discussion further off –topic. It may also easily make other users afraid of taking part of the debate or editing out of fear of being similarly unfairly accused of having an agenda.

As a female contributor I belong to a minority here at Wikipedia, and I believe that the aggressive and negative tone that is far too common at Wikipedia is one of the factors that keep many women away from this place.

It´s very unfortunate that I now had to spend time to write this to defend myself against an accusation that is such utter nonsense .This is not what Wikipedia editing should be about. I really hope this is now put to rest for good, so I won´t have to come back to elaborate further on this nonsense accusation at ArbCom or other places. An apology on the VS talk page would be welcome and accepted.

Users who endorse this summary:

1. Iselilja (talk) 12:42, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Reminder to use the talk page for discussion

All signed comments and talk not related to an endorsement should be directed to Talk:Frank L. VanderSloot#Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Rhode Island Red.2. Discussion should not be added below. Discussion should be posted on the talk page. Threaded replies to another user's vote, endorsement, evidence, response, or comment should be posted to the talk page.